Transcript of media conference with Greens’ Leader Rosalie Woodruff, Greens MHA for Clark Vica Bayley, and Vice President of the National Coalition for Gun Control, Roland Browne, outside Hobart Police Station, Hobart, 27 February 2024.
The background to the antique firearms issue is here: https://tasmaniantimes.com/2024/02/libs-weaken-new-gun-restrictions/.
Rosalie Woodruff
In 2019 we heard from thousands of Tasmanians about their deep concern to keep our strong gun laws, that we have been able to hold the line. And we have the Police Commissioner Donna Adams, who came into the top position with a commitment that she would strengthen our gun laws. It was all there for months, and she made her announcement that she would be making sure that antique firearm owners just get a background check, just get a fit and proper test and just get to have a certificate of ownership, just like every other person who owns a lethal weapon.
But she has been overridden by Liberal and Labor politicians during an election campaign, making an announcement now in the heat of politics, and we want to know, what’s the sop to the gun lobby? What has the gun lobby put into both of these parties in an election campaign? We wouldn’t know, because of the donations or laws that exist in Tasmania.
Journalist – Imogen Elliott
How should this have been handled? Is it wrong for the government to make decisions that undermine police?
Rosalie Woodruff
It’s incredible when you’ve got the Liberal Minister Felix Ellis, talking up big about community safety and backing police to the hilt, to fall over on this most critical task to support the police in having stronger gun laws. All around the world we’re seeing examples where antique firearms have been used for robberies. They have been fitted with new technology ammunition and used for killings, for shootings, and this is what the police are trying to prevent in Tasmania. They’re trying to prevent criminals getting hold of antique firearms and using them either to threaten or intimidate or to kill people if they’re able to get ammunition fitted to them.
This is what the police are wanting about. Technology is changing. There’s more opportunities for antique firearms to be used to harm, to threaten, and they’re trying to stop it. So the Greens are calling on the Liberal and Labor politicians to reverse their dangerous trend and to commit to keeping Tasmania’s firearms laws as they are and strengthening them, simply to provide background checks and certification for firearm owners.
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
In her press conference yesterday, Donna Adams said she had made the right decision in recommending it to the government, who accepted it. Is it extraordinary that the Police Commissioner can still hold the belief that this is the right move and be overruled by both political parties?
Rosalie Woodruff
It’s a show of great strength by Donna Adams that she’s sticking to what she knows is right and in the best interests of Tasmanians. The Greens fully back Tasmania Police in wanting to keep the community safer. All they’re doing is requiring a test to see if a person is fit and proper to have a firearm. It’s not a big deal. What are the Liberal and Labor politicians doing here? Why are they taking the position of the gun lobby and supporting that instead of supporting community safety?
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
On the flip-side, it’s not that abnormal for departments to ask for things and political parties to say ‘we take your point but no we’re not we’re not going to do that’. In this case that’s what’s happening. Why is it such a big deal?
Rosalie Woodruff
The fact is that the police made this decision about firearm owners being required to have background checks and and certification months ago. And the Liberal and Labor politicians are reversing that decision in the middle of an election campaign. To me that stinks of pressure from the gun lobby. It stinks of money flowing from the gun lobby to Liberal and Labor parties that’s not been disclosed. And it just shows how weak our Liberal and Labor politicians really are when it comes to upholding community safety.
Roland Browne
The exemption that existed from 1997 is one that the Police Commissioner has just set aside. And that’s an exemption that falls entirely within the power of the Police Commissioner. It does not go through the Police Minister or the government. It’s part of the suite of powers that the Police Commissioner has for firearm safety. So she doesn’t need to go to the government. Her job is to do everything she can to improve firearm safety.
She ran a committee that looked into this exemption. The committee advised her that the exemption was unlawful, it was unwarranted, and there was a reason for every firearm owner to be licensed. And she followed that advice. In my 38 years working in gun control, I have never seen a Police Commissioner have the carpet pulled out from under her like I have seen at the moment. I’m here to support the police commissioner and encourage her to push for firearm safety.
Journalist – Imogen Elliott
And did you think that that the initial firearm safety rules that she put forward, did you support those?
Roland Browne
Yes, Gun Control Australia thoroughly supports the idea that every firearms owner should be licensed, every firearms owner should be subject to assessment to ensure whether they’re a fit and proper person. Police have the opportunity to speak to members of the family and to discern if there is family violence in that family and to refuse a license. That’s what needs to happen. We cannot assume that every person who has an antique firearm is an angel, and I can guarantee you that cannot be.
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
You’re a gun expert and a donations expert. Rosalie talked about her worry about political pressure being put on by the gun lobby. Are you worried that we won’t know if there was any financial pressure in terms of donations made to either of the major parties until months after the election, if at all?
Roland Browne
Firstly, we don’t know how many antique firearms owners there are in Tasmania. But let’s say there’s 500. How do 500 antique firearms owners get that sort of clout to swing a change of policy to humiliate the Police Commissioner. And my question is: how much money did they donate to the Liberal Party to achieve this?
We saw in 2018 the Hodgman government granted $45,000 to the Sporting Shooters in St Helens for a new range. This was to an organisation with an annual revenue of about $40 million and the government was just handing out money to them. There’s a lot of deals going on in the background. We do not know how much money is changing hands at the moment. We’re not going to know for a long period of time, and I call on the government to come clean and tell us how much money has been donated to achieve this change in policy.
Journalist – Imogen Elliott
Can you shed some light on how antique firearms can still pose a public safety risk?
Roland Browne
They can pose a public safety risk in many ways. Firstly, they’re a target for thieves. Secondly, there’s evidence they’ve been used in robberies. There’s also some evidence in New South Wales of an antique firearm being pulled out and shown into a friend which led to that person being injured and in a police investigation with somebody charged.
They can be used to threaten people because for virtually all of the community, we don’t know if the antique firearm is loaded or unloaded, capable of firing a cartridge or anything. They present a threat to people and they can be used as a threat in the home simply by the owner of the firearm, referring to it in the course of a domestic. I’ve had that professional experience where restraint order cases have involved allegations of the firearms owner threatening to use the firearm that was in the home.
Tasmanian Times
Does this mean that the Greens are effectively tougher on law and order than the Labor and Liberal parties?
Rosalie Woodruff
It absolutely does mean that the Greens remain firmly and trenchantly committed to strong firearms laws. We were the one who pushed for and forced the Liberal government to have the firearms inquiry after the 2018 secret commitments that were made by the Liberals and by the Labor Party too. It was through the process of that with that we heard from thousands of Tasmanians about their absolute commitment, given our state’s history, to keep the strong firearms laws that we’ve got.
So we will be there to the end of time making sure we do not erode these laws, and we fix the loopholes that the Commissioner has identified and that we have to tighten up. Technology is changing. Firearm owners can have access to ammunition. The police are very clear about that. Unless we check the people who’ve got access to antique firearms, how do we know that they’re a fit and proper person? And how do we know where they live, when they’re selling a gun, whether they’re storing it properly, and whether they have, any sort of family violence related issues?
Vica Bayley
After 10 years of Liberal politicians, inaction and acquiescence finally they’ve recognised that there is strong community concerns about the University of Tasmania’s shift and relocation into the city. That is very welcomed, but it shouldn’t have taken 10 years of inaction and apathy. It was only last year during questioning by Greens and independent politicians in the parliament that Treasurer Michael Ferguson was steadfastly defending UTas’s right to manage its own business and move its operations into the city.
He has been shown up now and gazumped by the Clark candidates who have clearly pressured the party into this position. The Greens do not support the relocation of UTas in to the city. And we’d like to see a commitment from UTas of the maintenance of the UTas Sandy Bay campus for educational purpose, that includes respecting the built heritage, the natural values and other public open space benefits of that site.
It’s really clear, though, to the Greens that the issues and challenges facing Utas go well beyond the relocation into the city. We have to consider the the rigour, the transparency, and indeed the wisdom of decisions that have been made going back decades, including about the whole-scale move of the campus into the city, and then the development of the Sandy Bay campus and the sale of the Sandy Bay campus. The Greens also support a review informed by the inquiry of the Upper House, a review of the University of Tasmania Act, because we’d like to see the university returned to robust and transparent decision-making that’s based on community consultations, and ultimately a primary focus on educational excellence.
There are a myriad of challenges facing UTas, not just the move into the city. We have the academic cohort and the teachers at UTS, holding serious concerns about a raft of issues. And indeed, the student population equally concerned with decisions such as taking classes wholly online. We’d like to see not just the move and relocation issue looked at, but the governance, the accountability, the transparency and the decision-making of UTas looked at and reformed going forward so this doesn’t happen again.
The writing has been on the wall for decades, the writing has been on the wall for many years, and the community has been up in arms about to shift into the city. It’s only now at the very last minute during the election campaign, that the Liberal Party seems to have accepted that and made some steps towards taking action.
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
So a parliamentary vote if there’s a land sale, but also if there’s any move away from an educational use of Sandy Bay, does that go far enough?
Vica Bayley
We’d like to see the University of Tasmania make a commitment to maintain the Sandy Bay campus for educational purposes and respect its built heritage, its natural heritage and its public open space values. That’s clearly what the community wants to see. It’s a fabulous campus; any other university around the country would kill for a campus such as that. It’s bothered many people for many years now as to why the university would want to see a shift into the city, a whole scale shift into the city.
There are aspects of the university that’s been in the city for a very long time: the Arts school, the Conservatorium, and so forth. So we’re not talking about that, we’re talking about the whole scale shift from the university’s Sandy Bay campus into the city and the development and sale of that campus going forward. We’d like to see UTas get back to focusing on academic excellence and leave property development behind.
Journalist – Imogen Elliott
What should happen with those city sites that they have acquired?
Vica Bayley
There’s a whole range of considerations if Utas accepts the fact that the move into the city is untenable. They’ll have to go through a whole range of considerations about what to do with those sites. It would make sense I would imagine to sell them back into the market so that the private sector and others can use them for infield housing for other development opportunities.
But the fundamental thing here is that the shift away from the Sandy Bay campus, the development of that campus, and the sale of that campus is clearly untenable. It’s untenable for the Liberal Party now, that’s evident. It’s been untenable for the community for many, many years. And it’s taken Greens and independents in the Parliament, raising this and supporting the community, to finally see the Liberal Party act.
We want to see you tears maintain a commitment to the Sandy Bay campus to retain its built heritage, its natural values and its public open space and get back to the business of academic excellence because it is our only university.
Our young people don’t have other opportunities to pick from when it comes to a university education in Tasmania. UTas is it. UTas needs to leave property development behind and get back to the business of academic excellence.
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
The most vocal opponents of the move seem to have gone to uni 20 plus years ago when student life on campus was a big thing. Every university in Australia is having that move towards online learning. Isn’t campus life dead and isn’t trying to protect it folly?
Vica Bayley
I don’t think you campus life is dead. Clearly, university life is very, very different. But that doesn’t say that campus life is dead. And any other university in Australia would give their left arm for a campus like the Sandy Bay site. Yes, things need to change. Yes, UTas needs to be adaptable. But a whole scale move from Sandy Bay into the city, developing the Sandy Bay site and flogging it off to pay for that move really is untenable. It’s not tenable from a community perspective, it’s clearly untenable from a political perspective. And UTas needs to get back to the business of academic excellence.
Journalist – Adam Langenberg
Empty buildings, for lectures that everyone attends online is tenable?
Vica Bayley
They’re not talking about abandoning buildings here, the whole issue is about shifting from the university site at Sandy Bay into buildings into the city. They’ll be faced by those same challenges of online learning, of student uptake, and others, with their buildings in the city. So this position is about the university maintaining a commitment to the Sandy Bay site to maintaining and respecting the built heritage, the public open space and the natural values of that site. And getting back to academic excellence.
Journalist – Imogen Elliott
Madeleine Ogilvie and Simon Behrakis said that this has come up as an issue while they’ve been door-knocking during the election campaign, is it the same for you?
Vica Bayley
If the Liberal politicians needed to knock on doors to recognise that this was an issue, they shouldn’t be in politics. Let’s remember that there was an elector vote at the last Hobart City Council election that showed that almost 75% of voters didn’t support the relocation into the city. This has been a major issue for over a decade now. Liberal politicians have sat on their hands and acquiesced to the university all of that time. Finally, you know, three weeks out from election, they’ve woken up to themselves. I think everybody can see what it’s about. They are transparently just responding to public opinion.
Tasmanian Times
The elector poll was only in Hobart, it wasn’t Kingborough, Sorell, Brighton, Glenorchy and so on, all of which are feeder areas for the university campus. What work have the Greens done to determine sentiment from those areas regarding the location of campus?
Vica Bayley
We clearly haven’t had the opportunity to poll electors outside of here. But it’s abundantly clear that the whole scale shift from the Sandy Bay campus into the city and then developing that campus and selling it off was untenable. It’s untenable for those residents in proximity. That was a wake up call for the university. There are a range of issues that need to be dealt with in terms of the accessibility of tertiary education in Tasmania. A shift into the city isn’t the only or best way to address those issues.
Tasmanian Times
Just on duck shooting season. Shooters can get together and form their own political party, ducks can’t. Can you explain the significance of the alliance that has been announced today with regard to duck shooting?
Vica Bayley
We know that most Tasmanians are abhorred by the notion of shooting wild ducks. These are incredibly beautiful species, they are killed in a in what is quite often a cruel manner. Groups that have an interest in animal protection in conservation and in reforming the way our species are managed have formed an alliance to put duck shooting on the agenda this election.
Duck shooting is just about to start. We’re going to see thousands and thousands of our precious native wildlife shot out of the sky in a cruel manner over the coming weeks. This alliance is here to to shine a spotlight on that behaviour, to highlight the fact that in the 21st century, this kind of behaviour, treating our native wildlife in this way, in a climate crisis when our waterways and wetlands are drying, it’s untenable.
It’s not appropriate in the 21st century. This alliance will help to put a spotlight on this practice and keep pushing for change. The greens in a balance of power in the next term of government will work really hard to ensure that there is reform when it comes to wildlife management and duck hunting is ultimately banned.
Tasmanian Times
Is it ironic that imported pest species like fallow deer effectively have some kind of protection, whereas native ducks have very little?
Vica Bayley
It’s utterly perverse to think that feral species such as deer and trout have an element of protection and that their management is regulated so closely, when native species such as the Australian shelduck, the black duck, the chestnut teal can be shot out of the sky by people and then dispatched with a break of a neck or through dogs going to fetch them. And this is a perverse situation, it’s really clear that in the 21st century, when people are aware and awake to animal cruelty issues, and to the need to protect our spectacular native wildlife, that duck shooting still continues. We are in a climate crisis, the habitat for these species is regularly diminished. We need to get into a position where this state actually stands up for its native wildlife and bans duck hunting for good.
Roland Browne
I don’t want to leave out part of this story. I’d just like to say something about the university, because you’ve asked Vica, about the movement into the city and these buildings that are going to be empty. It’s important to see the big picture, which is that this government has not done any planning for education around Tasmania in this way. It hasn’t done any planning for sports either.
And so we see this crazy stadium idea halfway between Hobart and hopefully York Park. We don’t have any planning for local sport, for regional sport, for statewide sport. We don’t have any planning for transport into the city. One of the reasons that the university said they needed to move into the city was transport; this government does not have in place of transport strategy. They’ve all popped up in the last month because there’s an election coming. But there is no strategy for sport, for education, the stadia, for a whole lot of things. That’s really the problem, a failure to plan, an endemic failure in this government and every previous government for a long period of time.
Tasmanian Times
The Liberal announcement on UTas, effectively now among their promises, same with Labor once they go up on their website, they are phrased on language of ‘a majority Liberal government will …’ Is ‘majority’ a weasel word there given that they might not form a majority? Does it mean all these promises really amount to nothing?
Rosalie Woodruff
I think a lot of the election promises that are being spruiked by Liberal and Labor politicians do have lots of caveats and get-out clauses if you look at them closely. We would like to be in a balance of power situation so we can push them really hard to go with the spirit of what they’re telling Tasmanians they will do. We will be focused on making sure that Tasmanians get the spirit of the promises that they’ve been given by Liberal and Labor politicians and obviously by the Greens because we will be there fighting every day to make sure we get real climate action and cost-of-living, housing, health and environment protection measures.
