Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Economy

Ludlam and Abetz: The Goose and the Gander …

First published July 19

Lindsay Tuffin: ‘To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness’ – Oscar Wilde. To lose one Senator may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two Senators looks like carelessness: Guardian HERE. Larissa Waters’ announcement HERE

The Guardian on the 16th of July ( HERE ) quotes the attorney general George Brandis stating that he has “no sympathy for Scott Ludlam” who he said had been extremely negligent when he ran for the Senate at three elections despite still being a New Zealand citizen.

Brandis said Ludlam had been “very ungracious” and “extremely mean-spirited” when the former South Australian senator Bob Day was also found to be ineligible for election earlier this year while adding “so I don’t think we should shed too many tears over the consequences of Mr Ludlum’s own negligence.”

Brandis said Ludlam could face a substantial debt repayment for the salary and allowances he received during his tenure as a senator. He said there is also a fine of “100 pounds” for every day that a person not eligible to sit does sit in the Senate.”

Now Brandis, in the interest of fairness will you apply this same logic to Eric Abetz?

Abetz renounced his German citizenship in March 2010 just before my scheduled hearing before the High Court sitting as the Court of Disputed Returns. He was therefore eligible to be elected at the 2010 Senate election and I was forced to withdraw my case.

His behaviour caused the judge to make him pay his costs.

As one cannot renounce a citizenship one does not have, Abetz had been sitting in the Senate illegally from 1996 to 2010 or, as with Ludlam, three terms.

I now ask Brandis, will he treat Abetz in the same fashion as Ludlam? Surely what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!

Abetz has throughout this saga acted with contempt for the system and thereby managed to dodge my bullets. Bullets are now aimed by Brandis at their joint enemy Ludlam.

Ludlam has behaved with honour as one would expect of a Greens Senator.

I now ask, will Abetz do likewise?

If Brandis has any claim to integrity he must now apply the dictums he has espoused regarding Ludlam to the Liberal backbencher, Abetz.

I have presented the Abetz saga on Tasmanian Times in great detail and as I am completely abreast of this matter I feel that I am in a strong position to make this comment.

John Hawkins was born and educated in England. He has lived in Tasmania for 13 years. He is the author of “Australian Silver 1800–1900” and “Thomas Cole and Victorian Clockmaking” and “The Hawkins Zoomorphic Collection” as well as “The Al Tajir Collection of Silver and Gold” and nearly 100 articles on the Australian Decorative Arts. He is a Past President and Life Member of The Australian Art & Antique Dealers Association. John has lived in Australia for 50 years and is 75 this year. In two of the world’s longest endurance marathons and in the only teams to ever complete these two events, he drove his four-in-hand team from Melbourne to Sydney in 1985 and from Sydney to Brisbane in 1988.

3AW: Derryn Hinch turns citizenship blowtorch on Liberal Senator

Fairfax: Greens senator Larissa Waters’ resignation triggers wave of MPs declaring Australian allegiance

ABC: Australian politicians born overseas jump to clarify citizenship after Waters, Ludlam bungles

• PB in Comments: Here is the full text of Eric Abetz’s statement to the Senate on 25 October 2010 in which he claims …

• John Hawkins in Comments: … Further I am willing to donate $10,000 to the Queen Victoria Museum and Art Gallery if Abetz can come up with a legal document obtained from the German Government applying for and then accepting his resignation of German citizenship in either 1992 or 1974. He has claimed possession of proof but so far no sighting. By failing as a barrister and solicitor to complete his 2010 nomination form correctly he knows it is invalid. I will double the amount if this is so and he is thrown out of Parliament on this technicality. Now editors of the Mercury and the Examiner that is a story …

• Steve in Comments: … With regard to Abetz, I’m with John. He renounced his German nationality. How can you renounce something you don’t have? If Abetz had been confident in his nationality he would have faced the challenge in court and killed it dead. The renouncing was an avoidance tactic based on a lack of confidence that the court would support his position. Had the court ruled Abetz ineligible, that would have open a very lively tin of worms; especially in light of John’s previous objections!

• Download John Hawkins’ Plea placed before the High Court in 2010 …
Final_JBH_vs_EA_10_Sep_2010.pdf

FROM Bob Burton’s article ( HERE ), published September 23, 2010 …

Tasmanian Liberal Senator Eric Abetz is facing a High Court challenge over whether he was eligible to nominate for the 2010 election. Abetz’s nomination form, which was submitted to the Australian Electoral Commission in July, has been released under the Freedom of Information Act. (Note: Abetz’s home address and phone number have been blacked out by TT)

Download …
Abetz_2010_nomination_form.pdf

Independent Australia: Eric Abetz vs Scott Ludlam and Larissa Waters: Why the s44 double standard? Why did Scott Ludlam and Larissa Waters resign from Parliament over holding dual citizenship, but not Eric Abetz? Michael~John Shea reports.

ABC: Coalition infighting damaging Government, says longtime Abbott supporter Eric Abetz

JOHN HAWKINS’ challenge to Eric Abetz …

Abetz, the Senate and the Court of Disputed Returns

Abetz, Integrity and the Law revisited

Abetz leaves citizenship row to High Court

THE AUSTRALIAN SENATE Tasmania FILING OF PETITION DISPUTING ELECTION

Abetz’s 2010 Senate nomination form

Abetz challenge ‘withdrawn’

Senator Abetz – Statement to the Senate

An open letter to the President of the Senate

JOHN HAWKINS’ collected articles on Tasmanian Times …

http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php/category-article/149

Author Credits: [show_post_categories parent="no" parentcategory="writers" show = "category" hyperlink="yes"]
65 Comments

65 Comments

  1. Lynne Newington

    July 26, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    He’s a pretty tough egg this Sentaor Abetz of yours and quite happy to roll with the punches from what I can gather…

    http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/senator-eric-abetz-why-dumping-me-was-a-big-mistake-20160311-gngg6e.html

  2. Gerrya

    July 26, 2017 at 11:56 am

    Take note all. Erich is not making more appearances in the national media, he has recently taken over the page 3 spot in the Huon News from MR Wilson of HotH fame.

    Odour of rodent perhaps?

  3. John Hawkins

    July 26, 2017 at 12:05 am

    #62 Simon

    Abetz on the Compton show this morning:

    “There was a High Court challenge when someone tried to take me to the High Court …. it failed on the basis off the affadavit material…. ”

    Compton do your homework read Tas Times.

    It failed despite all the Abetz claptrap about 1974 as related to you without interruption or question because he renounced his German citizenship as per his affadavit in March 2010.

    He was therefore entitled to stand for that election – and that election alone – in 2010.

    Abetz had been sitting in the Parliament since 1994 and by renouncing his Citizenship in March 2010 he merely confirmed that he was a German national up to that point.

    You cannot renounce a citizenship you do not have.

    Why Compton did you let Abetz off the hook?

  4. Simon Warriner

    July 25, 2017 at 10:20 pm

    John, I suggest you make contact with Leon Crompton of ABC Mornings, with your evidence, he had Abetz on his show this am, claiming it was all sorted out back when he became an Australian citizen.

  5. patrick.khan

    July 25, 2017 at 9:46 pm

    59
    On Insiders last Sunday A.B.C Henderson complimented Abetz for re- nouncing his citizenship ?.

    The big winner out of this is Rebecca White , reason being the intelligence of the Tasmanian electorate is being insulted and they can see he is causing angst in the Liberal Party .

    Kevin Rudd carried out the same crucification on Julia Gillard .

    I am surprised that the Liberals have not taken on Bill Shorten for changing horses i.e cabinet minister not supporting his leader and supporting Rudd .

    Shorten in Chifley and Curtins day would have been classified as a member of the ” One Dagger Club ” Abetz is qualified to be a member as well.

    Chifley is reported as saying : I will back out of this room and converstion with you , so you can stab me from the front rather than the back:

    There was a brand of ” Whisky ” Labelled ” One Dagger ” and coasters were forwarded to the lefties who caused Curtin and Chifley angst.

  6. Lynne Newington

    July 25, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    Good on you John, we could all be encouraged to never give up living in a world of duplicity and when someone’s prepared to put their money where their mouth is……
    No wonder so many of us are poor!

  7. John Hawkins

    July 25, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    I am going to start another TT thread on the subject of Abetz sitting in parliament without valid documentation to prove that he had renounced his German Citizenship prior to 2010.

    The three amigo’s who have recently resigned realised that they were about to claim their pay illegally and commit a fraud on the Commonwealth, as a result they immediately resigned.

    The same applies to Abetz who I suggest knowingly and fraudulently took public money until he renounced his German citizenship in 2010.

    As a result he was committing a finacial fraud against the Australian taxpayer and the Commonwealth.

    He managed to spin this situation out with the help of the various Presidents of the Senate until the election of 2010.

    Abetz then remained illegally in the parliament until he could take up his seat as a result of the 2010 election, thereby compoundng the fraud.

    The costs of proving this will now be borne by the State rather than by me as an individual.

    I thank Brandis and the latest Liberal Senator for this High Court challenge.

    We must never give up.

  8. patrick.khan

    July 25, 2017 at 12:05 am

    Another domino takes place excellent young minister and top performer Cavanah stands down.

    High Court will decide.

  9. spikey 'no clothes' riddoch

    July 24, 2017 at 11:50 pm

    #56

    some people kinda think the truth is important
    as abstract a concept as it may be
    particularly to those raised
    on the benefits of lying

    don’t put your own weak justifications
    on the rest of us

  10. TGC

    July 23, 2017 at 1:35 pm

    #55 “If there were any complications, politicians of the era just lied, as they do now.”
    Too simple- it’s not that “politicians” lie- it’s
    that people lie- all people- everyone!
    It would be extraordinary if politicians – on-line contributors were any different.
    Don’t be too disappointed #55

  11. MjF

    July 22, 2017 at 9:30 pm

    #54
    Australian citizenship didn’t exist until 1949.

    As long as you were a British subject, you were eligible under s44.

    If there were any complications, politicians of the era just lied, as they do now.

    The great King O’Malley was a SA labour MHR from 1901 to 1917. He was born in the USA and ineligible under s44 but made up a story that his mother briefly crossed the border into Canada to give birth.

    Instant British subject, problem solved.

    Neither Waters or Ludlum (as a Canadian and a Kiwi) would have had any problem in those days either.

    Section 44 doesn’t just deal with citizenship, if also rules out candidates in the cases of undischarged bankrupts, criminal convictions punishable by a year or more in jail (Rod Culleton’s demise), dealing with ‘office of profit under the crown’ and ‘direct or indirect pecuniary interest’.

    Source – Laurie Oakes, Courier Mail 22/7/17.

  12. philll Parsons

    July 22, 2017 at 2:21 pm

    And how they fall with Roberts [PHONP] born a Citizen of India.

    One wonders how the early Australian MP’s fulfilled S44 of the Consitution. Were British subjects bot subjects of a foreign power and at what point did former Dominions become foreign powers?.

    Where is that stated?.

  13. MjF

    July 22, 2017 at 2:15 pm

    # 44
    Hawkins

    I don’t think it’s a case of how the form is interpreted. It’s crystal clear what’s required and how it’s to be completed.

    It would be a foolhardy candidate who went cutting and shutting an official AEC form because he or she didn’t like it.

    No surer way to have a nomination form rejected.

    Please post your completed LC nomination form just to see if the local template makes any more sense and logic.

    I’m not disagreeing that birth place and date should be a standard inclusion for everyone regardless of citizenship.

  14. Simon Warriner

    July 22, 2017 at 12:59 pm

    re 50, and it will remain this way until the parliament is dominated by independent representatives who understand the harm done by the hypocrisy and lies. It is but a single tumor on the body politic, caused by living in the swamp of party politics and conflicted interests. Therein lies the real choice, remove a single tumor, then another, and another, ad infinitum, or get out of the bloody swamp.

  15. Lynne Newington

    July 22, 2017 at 12:25 pm

    @48. Dreyfus is always measured in his summation and has a fine legal mind.

    Absolutely, I was at a Castan Human Rights Conference in 2013 where he was the speaker and he was riveting with his quiet persuasive demeanor.
    Always on hand for his constituants too…

  16. John Hawkins

    July 22, 2017 at 11:35 am

    #48 Patrick Khan

    I am sure that many in the Labor Party close to Dreyfus will inform him of this blog which covers nearly every aspect of this matter.

    Nothing will be said or done.

    The fact is that our parliament is a club to which one is elected by the mug punters.

    Once in the club it behoves all members not to rock the boat.

    Brandis stepped out of line calling for a refund of salary and pension for Ludlam purely out of hatred of a Green who resigned as result of a non-parliamentry investigation.

    Abetz and his cohorts soon put the mockers on Brandis they all have to much to lose in the world of precedence.

    I tried to get the Presidents of the Senate to take up my case regarding Abetz … see my Petition to the High Court referenced above.

    Investigate their own … Never!

  17. TGC

    July 21, 2017 at 8:29 pm

    #46 “…he’s a narcisstic sociopath.”
    Does #46 do private consultations?,

  18. patrick.khan

    July 21, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    Re44
    John Hawkins
    Surely an opinion from Shadow Attorney General Mark Dreyfus would be appropriate for the period 1994 –2010 that in your opinion Abetz sat in the Senate for this period illegally/.

    Dreyfus is always measured in his summation and has a fine legal mind.

  19. Russell

    July 21, 2017 at 1:52 pm

    The fact remains that Erich Abetz was illegally in Parliament for many years before he supposedly renounced his German citizenship, so he should pay back all his salaries and lose all the superannuation and perks for that period.

  20. Lynne Newington

    July 20, 2017 at 11:42 pm

    @45 From what I read it seems T Abbott renounced his UK citizenship before he was elected

    Just recently slipped it in for reasons of his own….he’s a narcisstic sociopath.

    https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/arts-and-culture/tony-abbott-proves-dual-citizenship-rumours-wrong-/fd2c82f0-d76a-4766-a3d1-fe558242ed6b.htm

  21. Ted Mead

    July 20, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    #42 Lynne

    From what I read it seems T Abbott renounced his UK citizenship before he was elected.

    So why were there people investigating him?

    The mind boggles!

  22. John Hawkins

    July 20, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    Fitch

    I think you are correct and the problem is in the AEC template and the way it can or should be interpreted.

    If I was filling out the form I would cross out the word (by) before the colon then the word (Birth) and the (rectangle with the arrow).

    It would then read as Date of Birth and Place of Birth which is required info for any declaration nominating one for a government job.

    On the subject of Naturalisation and the date citizenship was granted when Abetz was naturalised he gained another citizenship – Australian he did not lose his German citizenship.

    To gain office and comply with the law under Section 44 he was beholden to renounce in writing his German citizenship and recieve proof from the German government that they accepted this renunciation.

    It is this documentation that Abetz has never been able to produce prior to 2010. When he did the proper thing to avoid losing in court and renounced a German Citizenship he still had which forced me to withdraw my case.

    I still state without reservation that Abetz sat in the Senate from 1994 until 2010 illegally as a dual national.

    If he knew how to behave he would resign and Brandis could force him to repay 16 years of salary plus fines .

    Now that would be a result.

    For what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

    Thankyou for your comment.

  23. Lynne Newington

    July 20, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    @39 Yes, so I wonder if Abetz was on a spotters fee arrangement for the various occults and sects, whereby if he were to successfully secure funds say to the tune of #50-60 million dollars per annum (as he did achieve for the “Exclusive [secretive] Brethren.”)

    John Hawkins has already taken that up.

    http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php/article/mr-abetz-and-the-exclusive-brethren-

  24. Lynne Newington

    July 20, 2017 at 6:16 pm

    @18. Not only Erich РSe̱or Abbott is also under question.
    He was born in the UK – and had dual citizenship.
    But apparently there was some paperwork that went missing?

    36.Tony Abbotts proof of citizenship 1993.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DErSwFbVYAAxfuu.jpg

    Matt Burkes Twitter response to Abbott’s 1993 proof of citizenship… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEraSAaVoAAWR0Q.jpg
    Work that one out…….

  25. mjf

    July 20, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    $33/34

    Hawkins

    As you say I have re-read your carefully worded #25 text:

    “This document was completed and accepted by the AEC in Tasmania yet it contains the following major problems:

    …………………………………………..

    Most importantly it was accepted by the AEC when it does not contain the Senator’s date or place of birth!”

    The point being it didn’t have to, for the reasons I’ve explained in #32, but which you’re too pigheaded to recognise.

    In fact I think you believe yourself to be infallible. Does that mindset come from your military training games ?

    It seems to me the major problem here is how the template is worded and your issue is with the AEC form and what it requires, not Abetz’s provided information apart from the case of the omitted ‘h’

    Keep up the fine work, your obsession is however affecting your objectivity.

    I also think Abetz is nothing like a Gunga Din. Accordingly the indian water bearer served a useful purpose and rose well above his station eventually.

  26. Casey

    July 20, 2017 at 4:51 pm

    Someone else is on the Section 44 case featuring you-know-who….the Independent Australia news site.

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/eric-abetz-the-greens-and-s44-why-the-double-standard,10519

    Casey.

  27. William Boeder

    July 20, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    Abetz was not born in Tasmania so how did he barge into the political system that is usually reserved for those of long term lineage or have purchased their way into State politics.
    As for the State Liberals team, the bigger the donation to the State party the more likely one can become a candidate or hold a high profile in the back office hierarchy of Shamans and shifty accumulators of money and goods that belongs to others, it’s all about money if you’re a Liberal.

    Which brings forward a suspicion I have held for a great many years, this Abetz having a habit of sending in submissions for Federal funding to help out such as the “Exclusive Brethren” as had actually occurred back during the “Fibber Howard” years.
    The above-named Exclusives would become the recipients of a generous Annual allocation of monies just on the basis of Abetzs toadying up to his mate John (Fibber) Howard in those earlier years when the Fibber held the top spot.

    Yes, so I wonder if Abetz was on a spotters fee arrangement for the various occults and sects, whereby if he were to successfully secure funds say to the tune of #50-60 million dollars per annum (as he did achieve for the “Exclusive [secretive] Brethren.”)

    I hold firm in my opinion that Abetz would not be able to dispute my contention relating to the above-referred to matter, as that was somewhere near the amount this sharpster mob of religious exclusives had been granted under the heading of education funding.
    So all ye merry band of Abetz flocculent followers
    of the Macquarie Bank like Abetz, he was full well knowing just by quoting a special number to the Fibber. “This government grant has to be good for a couple of million votes from the bible-belting sector.” Submission approved…. signed: John (Fibber_) Howard.

    (edited)

  28. john hayward

    July 20, 2017 at 2:57 pm

    Many TT posters seem unaware that the Aussie representative of Justicia, the goddess of justice, does not wear a blindfold in this jurisdiction. I observed this first-hand. Her proxies seem to have eyes only for those on the financial and political rich lists.

    John Hayward

  29. Andrew Ricketts

    July 20, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    Post #30 raises the ghastly spectacle of TGC (Trevor) starting and running his own website.

    Beware what you wish for!

  30. Lynne Newington

    July 20, 2017 at 1:27 pm

    Tony Abbotts proof of citizenship 1993.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DErSwFbVYAAxfuu.jpg

    Matt Burkes Twitter response to Abbott’s 1993 proof of citizenship… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEraSAaVoAAWR0Q.jpg
    Work that one out.

    A narcopath by definition is a term referring to a narcissistic sociopath, those who tend to exhibit all the traits and personality symptoms to both.

  31. TGC

    July 20, 2017 at 1:15 pm

    #27 may care to note that contributor TGC almost never- actually never- mentions names- merely points to contributions- the person submitting is
    irrelevant to the worth or otherwise.- so that #28 is merely ‘anger, word processed’
    and #30 is just -well- that contributors average effort

  32. John Hawkins

    July 20, 2017 at 11:27 am

    As a Sop to Cerberus namely one Martin J Fitch at #32 I have placed my Petition to the High Court in this matter on Tasmanian Times.

    All readers should click on it to further understand this complex and expensive matter.

    Life was never meant to be easy.

    The Examiner and the Mercury cannot continue to ignore this matter for ever?

    Or can they?

    JBH

  33. John Hawkins

    July 20, 2017 at 10:52 am

    #32 Fitch Martin

    Reread my carefully worded text at#25.

    “This is obviously is not the case for a Senator in Parliament”.

    Prat.

  34. Mjf

    July 20, 2017 at 4:16 am

    Hawkins

    Read the nomination form again.

    Erik had to provide his date and place of birth only if he was an Australian citizen by birth.

    Ticking the naturalisation box does not require birth details

    Your main argument now is the missing ‘h’

    Where oh where was it last seen ?

  35. Steve

    July 20, 2017 at 2:45 am

    I’m fascinated by the comment by the country’s leading legal functionary. Speaking as the Attorney General, Brandis has suggested that Ludlam may have to repay salary. Interesting question. If you employed a bricklayer, as an employee, and some time down the track discovered that his brick laying credentials were flawed; could you then require him to re-pay his salary? Seriously doubt it. Any court would put the obligation back on to the employer to have correctly examined the credentials at the time of engagement.
    The interesting part about it to me is that it suggests that Brandis’ view of the system is that a politician is paid for being elected. Not for any work they might do, the reward for being elected is several years with your snout in the trough and if you are ruled invalid to have been elected, you should repay the value of the illicit years of enjoying said trough.
    With regard to Abetz, I’m with John. He renounced his German nationality. How can you renounce something you don’t have? If Abetz had been confident in his nationality he would have faced the challenge in court and killed it dead. The renouncing was an avoidance tactic based on a lack of confidence that the court would support his position. Had the court ruled Abetz ineligible, that would have open a very lively tin of worms; especially in light of John’s previous objections!

  36. Simon Warriner

    July 20, 2017 at 2:06 am

    re 26, Tell you what, Trevor. why don’t you go and start your own web site where you can sit around with all your mates and agree with each other, or is that prospect far too lonely for you to contemplate?
    I promise I will not miss the endless torrent of inanity if you do.

    I am with JH, throw the useless bugger out of the Senate. Just like Abetz, TGC not produced any valid reason for JH to stop, and on his past performances hell will freeze over before he does.

  37. Luigi

    July 20, 2017 at 2:04 am

    Will Ludlam’s years of Senate service prior to his resignation count toward a pension?

    Will Abetz’s years of Senate service prior to renouncing German citizenship count toward a pension?

  38. John Hawkins

    July 20, 2017 at 1:48 am

    TGC – Cowell

    Why is Abetz your man?

    Surely not because he is the perfect right wing multi millionaire Liberal, anti gay marriage, anti Green, anti abortion, anti dole recipients anti women in parliament and the living epitome of a 19th century homophobe.

    Wake up man.

    Abetz is a fallen star crashing of his own volition through Mantach and Gretch into the poo.

    He is the ultimate Gunga Din – the grinning nodder standing one back behind the beloved leader … a man who will do anything and say anything to climb back up the greasy pole to the stars.

    Yet he is firmly lodged in the darkest deepest recesses of the backbench where he always belonged?

    Why did you and the Examiner support the Tasmanian Liberals when they put this dead weight stiff at No 1 on the Liberal ticket at the last election?

    To save the Liberals from a bigger hiding, Abetz must be thrown out of the Parliament.

    What you and yours do not seem to understand is that I am doing your mob a favour.

  39. Peter Bright

    July 20, 2017 at 12:32 am

    Trevor, the Editor’s generous policy of letting everyone have their say is absolutely splendid, particularly in John Hawkins’ case.

    I agree with so much of what John writes in these informative columns and even more in his well presented articles on Tasmanian Times.

    There are other people who persistently abuse the Editor’s awesome privilege which he grants so decently and freely to them, but I am way too courteous to mention any names. Trevor.

  40. TGC

    July 20, 2017 at 12:15 am

    #13″ He should be thrown out of the Parliament”
    How do I go about petitioning for #13 to be thrown out of TT if #13 continues with this legally ‘thrown out of court’ campaign?

  41. John Hawkins

    July 19, 2017 at 11:05 pm

    How not to fill in a Nomination Form

    Given above is the reference to Abetz and his 2010 Nomination Form for the 2010 Federal election for the Senate. This document was discovered under FOI by Bob Burton and placed on TT on the 23/9/2010 …

    http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php/article/abetzs-2010-senate-nomination-form

    It is illustrated here again for perusal by readers of TT.

    This document was completed and accepted by the AEC in Tasmania yet it contains the following major problems:

    Firstly Abetz gives his name incorrectly. His name is not Eric, his christian name on both his birth certificate and on the document which gave him dual nationality and Australian citizenship his Naturalisation Certficate is Erich.

    Most importantly it was accepted by the AEC when it does not contain the Senator’s date or place of birth!

    If you or I try to gain a driving licence, the pension, the dole, a passport, or even a Telstra account a key identifier is your date of birth and or place of birth.

    This obviously is not the case for a Senator in the Australian Parliament.

    Abetz gained a seat in parliament and a salary of $200,000 with the tacit agreement of the AEC without giving his date or place of his birth or for that matter his correct name.

    I therefore consider his election as a Senator invalid for his nomination form is invalid.

    Further I am willing to donate $10,000 to the Queen Victoria Museum and Art Gallery if Abetz can come up with a legal document obtained from the German Government applying for and then accepting his resignation of German citizenship in either 1992 or 1974. He has claimed possession of proof but so far no sighting.

    By failing as a barrister and solicitor to complete his 2010 nomination form correctly he knows it is invalid.

    I will double the amount if this is so and he is thrown out of Parliament on this technicality.

    Now editors of the Mercury and the Examiner that is a story …

  42. Russell

    July 19, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    How come Ludlum and the female Green Senator have been singled out when I understand that Eric Abetz and Tony Abbott both held dual citizenships while serving as Ministers?

    Are they also going to resign and pay back all those years of Ministerial salaries as well?

  43. John hawkins

    July 19, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    PB

    Abetz has no documents for 1994 or 1974 that give him a clear run into the Senate and never has had … he is all bluff and bluster.

    Hence I believe!

    What he does have is valid renunciation certificate from 2010.

    Why do all the cretins who should know better believe him?

    His brother tried the 1974 trick on me as recorded on TT and we blew him out of the water.

  44. PB

    July 19, 2017 at 5:23 pm

    Here is the full text of Eric Abetz’s statement to the Senate on 25 October 2010 in which he claims:

    To assert that I renounced my German citizenship in March 2010 as asserted in the article is wrong. I believe I renounced my German citizenship on 3 December 1974 in my oath and in the application of German law. To make doubly sure, I wrote in November 1992 to clarify the position. I now hold a certificate to confirm all of this. To assert that that certificate somehow renounced my citizenship—which I allegedly held up until that time—is, I suggest, demonstrably false. I thank the Senate.

    http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/genpdf/chamber/hansards/2010-10-25/0003/hansard_frag.pdf;fileType=application/pdf

  45. William Boeder

    July 19, 2017 at 5:20 pm

    One must anticipate that another sitting Senator who may be a person of questionable origin considering he shares many of the same ignorance’s, bigoted idiot beliefs of Ayrian race superiority, is possessed of the lust to spruiking lies, known for the trail of deceptions and so on,, worst of all he is a member of the Australian Liberal party, same as Abetz, would harbour the same bastardry then that both would hold John W Howard as their idol.
    The insufferable person I refer to is none other than the insufferable Senator Mathius Cormann, he who happens not to be of Australian birth nor origin. Belgian I’m led to believe.

    This was the self same Liberal party Senator acted as the sharpster in that he had ‘cancelled and or declined’ the findings of the Senate board of inquiry along with its disturbing report delivered to the Federal government, strongly recommending a Royal Commission be set into place to examine further into the intrigues and avaricious actions including their many improper conducts of the now nefarious Commonwealth Bank.

    His claim for doing so was a ludicrously false claim in that he had announced that the Commonwealth Bank had a robust compensatory program set in place that was hot to trot busy processing each of the claimants and those other bewildered persons that suffered huge financial loss through dealings with being found guilty of allaying their trust in the Commonwealth Bank’s financial advisory division, of the many that had subsequently been horribly misled, all the while this announcement being nothing other than an absolute fabricated bulls—t statement.

    Of significant cause for consideration by each and all, is that the Federal Liberal party consists almost entirely of the predator rodent specie “Mustela Erminea” (The Weasel clan)
    Stoats, Weasels, Polecats, Ferrets and other critters of that clan that bear their needle teeth for the purpose of rending the flesh that permits the drinking of the life-blood of their recent killed warm fleshed prey, indeed a most unbecoming grisly diet.
    One must also note that this family of sly, often nocturnal carnivorous rodents, that these same do not contribute a dicky board of benefit to the society of the Australian people.

  46. William Boeder

    July 19, 2017 at 3:34 pm

    One would anticipate another insufferable Senator who could even be a person sharing many of the same ignorances, bigoted idiot beliefs of Ayrian race superiority, a lust for speaking lies, a trail of deceptions, worst of all only a Liberal party would harbour such bastardry, both would hold John W Howard as their idol.

  47. Casey

    July 19, 2017 at 1:50 pm

    #13
    On the contrary John, I have no affiliation to any party – and vote Green. You ‘presume’ my affiliation incorrectly.

    I reported the comment was in the SMH , looking for rebuttal – not supporting it.

    I thoroughly agree with the rest of your post.

    Casey

  48. Ted Mead

    July 19, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    Not only Erich РSe̱or Abbott is also under question.

    He was born in the UK – and had dual citizenship.

    But apparently there was some paperwork that went missing?

    I don’t know the full story, though what I do know is that an ex senator has been investigating it.

    Let’s hope this saga opens the can of worms for T.A

  49. Jack Lumber

    July 19, 2017 at 12:42 pm

    re 12 That is correct # 6 doesn’t know and HOWEVER The greens leader said their DD had failed . Guess that resolves that attempt at being a pedant

    re #11 Fair call . That is the quirk of the Senate and it happens for all parties vis McKim

    re # 15 you confuse the person with the politics

  50. Robin Charles Halton

    July 19, 2017 at 11:41 am

    Cant really see the problem for both Ludlum and Waters as both are dual citizens of countries where the Queen is the Head of state!

  51. spikey 'no clothes' riddoch

    July 19, 2017 at 4:38 am

    #6

    Mate, we ‘all’ don’t feel the same way.
    I know peeps who count him as a personal friend.

    yes john
    don’t upset eric
    again

    he has friends see
    powerful friends
    ha, cough cough splutter

    top of the pops he is
    reminds me a little
    of the countdown revolution

    ah molly, good golly
    shit he loved shite music
    but what a hat

  52. Andrew Ricketts

    July 19, 2017 at 3:14 am

    I can understand the reasons for this important rule.

    Was Senator Eric Abetz doing exactly the same thing as Senator Ludlum and Senator Waters?

    Was it indeed for a longer Senatorial period than Senator Ludlum and Senator Waters period as dual nationals?

    What does Senator Abetz masquerade as now?

    I wonder how many more dual national senators there are. I wonder too; would Brandis think Abetz to also be negligent?

  53. John hawkins

    July 19, 2017 at 1:32 am

    #2

    What you have stated is totally untrue and is fake news perpetrated by the Abetz camp of which you are presumably a member.

    Abetz has never been able to produce that document but it is correct to say that he renounced his German citizenship in 2010.

    If we had a press in Tasmania with any balls they would take up the subject of this appalling man and consign him to oblivion.

    I have done all the heavy lifting while Abetz has sat in the Parliament …

    Since 1994 Abetz sat illegally in the parliament as a dual national until 2010.

    The man is a shyster and very, very dangerous and seemingly so powerful that he is impossible to nail.

    He should be thrown out of the Parliament.

  54. philll Parsons

    July 19, 2017 at 1:00 am

    #6 does not know the what due diligence either Green Senator did. Nevertheless they have followed the law once they became aware.

    It has been claimed in today’s Examiner article ‘Party error slammed’ about the Green Senators that Abetz renounced his German citizenship in 1974.

  55. Simon Warriner

    July 18, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    re #6, Jack, what john Hawkins has done, and continues to do with this article, is point out the glaring shortcomings of our democratic process.

    As for Abetz being “elected” by “the people”, actually no. As I understand it he got in without being elected and since then he has managed to keep his position at the top of the Liberal ticket, which gives him first pick of all the donkey votes, and thus a sure senate seat without the annoying task of having to make himself publicly appealing.

    At the very least above the line voting should be done away with, but to do that we need a parliament dominated by independents.

  56. Peter Bright

    July 18, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    Jack at #6 says [i]” The two Green senators/party/advisors unwittingly failed to do the essential due diligence.”[/i]

    Then what about Australia’s perfect right to use due diligence to protect itself from anyone not exercising their own due diligence?

    The Australian Commonwealth’s wilful culpability in not verifying that which could so easily have been verified mightily outweighs the apparent negligence of one or two people with a genuine belief that such onus did not apply to their circumstances.

    It’s absolutely dopey for this nation to throw truly good people away over a matter so utterly devoid of malice, guile or threat of any kind.

  57. john hayward

    July 18, 2017 at 9:47 pm

    The amount the Green senators were paid is dwarfed by the dosh Libs like Abetz have made the public pay to burnish their image of patriotic xenophobia.

    John Hayward

  58. patrick.khan

    July 18, 2017 at 9:24 pm

    Paul Murray at Sky News nightly from 9 pm would appreciate this article Mr Hawkins

    Richard Colbeck may regain his senate seat

  59. Chris

    July 18, 2017 at 8:58 pm

    Do Senate Ticket Fraudsters get immunity or are they all above reproach-oops the law?
    Ban dual citizenship and above the line voting.

  60. Jack Lumber

    July 18, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    as much as we all dislike the said Senator , hand wringing and wailing is a wasted effort

    The people have spoken with their votes and the system has determined that he is eligible .

    John Hawkins you have far better use of your time and skills than chasing down this warren again .

    The two Green senators/party/advisors unwittingly failed to do the essential due diligence . Although from what has been reported re Ludlum it would appear there has been a fair bit of effort by an individual to find documentation.

    The story behind that would be interesting

  61. TGC

    July 18, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    #1 “…the conservatives would be pulling out all guns to create as much tribulation as possible!”

    Who are “the conservatives”?

    and #4 “…I was just so enraged…”
    which would account for the rest of the post!

  62. Ros Barnett

    July 18, 2017 at 3:55 pm

    Apologies for lifting your Eric Abetz gif off this page and posting it on facebook. I was just so enraged about the hypocrisy of Abetz saying ‘look away, nothing to see here’ about his dual citizenship status, and the hue and cry about Ludlum and Waters. If anyone wants to chase the Greens senators for recovery of wages then Abetz better await a bill too.

  63. john hayward

    July 18, 2017 at 2:29 pm

    I remain baffled as to how Abetz could enjoy 14 years in breach of the Constitution without retrospective penalty unless, of course, the HC judge was bowled over by his charm or was a Liberal appointee. Did Eric have to be caught flagrante delicto during the hearing to suffer any penalty?

    The other possibility I can think of is that Eric, like Peter Dutton, could claim immunity from the legal principles of fairness and impartiality under the law by virtue of being a conscientious extreme conservative who does not believe in them.

    John Hayward

  64. Casey

    July 18, 2017 at 1:58 pm

    Meanwhile, our Head of State is a foreign national, a citizen of a country half a world away.

    John, re Abetz, a comment in the SMH today says …

    “He did not renounce it in 2010. He actually provided documentary evidence in 2010 that he renounced his German citizenship in 1974.”

    Is that ‘fake news’?

    Casey.

    Ed: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/greens-senator-larissa-waters-resignation-triggers-wave-of-mps-declaring-australian-allegiance-20170718-gxdhzv.html

  65. Ted Mead

    July 18, 2017 at 1:43 pm

    I have no doubts, that if the dual citizenship saga was only relevant to Ludlam and not Abetz the conservatives would be pulling out all guns to create as much tribulation as possible!

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