Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Bronwyn Williams

The Trans Rights Debate – Who’s Peddling the ‘Hate’?

Emily Baker’s recent article in the Mercury titled ‘Penis stickers labelled hateful: Anger at anti-transgender campaign’ quoted Transforming Tasmania representative, Martine Delaney’s, opinion of the stickers.

Delaney said the stickers expressed a view ‘actively promoted by only extremely conservative Christian groups and a very small percentage of women – TERFS (trans exclusionary radical feminists) – who claim to be feminists’.

Gay rights activist, Rodney Croome, posted the article and accompanying picture of the offending sticker on his Facebook page – HERE – and I made the mistake of asking which was more ‘hateful’ the pink penis saying something most people would accept as an uncontroversial fact, or a blood stained transactivist t-shirt saying ‘I punch TERFS’.

I also referred readers of the post to a website – HERE – that contains hundreds of examples of violent, abusive and obscene online threats directed at those who don’t unquestioningly accept trans ideology, especially those who say transwomen are not women.

Things went from bad to worse – I was accused of not being a ‘real feminist’ and ‘hating all trans people’, and there was a bizarre side discussion about plagiarism and copyright infringement.

Finally, the following picture was posted …

This is both insulting and defamatory, but somehow trans rights activists feel entitled to demean those who express a different view.

They don’t address those views – they repeat the ‘transwomen are women’ mantra and when that doesn’t work, they resort to personal insults and extraneous arguments about totally unrelated topics.

We don’t know exactly what amendments to Tasmanian birth registration and anti-discrimination laws will be put forward by Labor and the Greens this week, but I think we all have good reason to be worried about the impact on our freedom of speech.

Think about it.

No-one can say ‘Women don’t have penises’ without the trans lobby accusing them of being a transphobic bigot.

But they have right on their side when they plainly refer to a woman they don’t know as a ‘dick’.

Imagine what they’ll do when the law protects their preferred names and pronouns under the banner of protections against ‘hate speech?

Bronwyn Williams is a retired lawyer and social worker

Isla MacGregor lives in Tasmania and is concerned about the ethical conduct of and collusion between Government and corporations in Tasmania.

Women Speak Tasmania is a network of women and their supporters based in Tasmania. We operate as a secular group. We are not aligned with any political party or ideology. We share research and information on a broad range of women’s rights issues. These include – female only spaces, services, groups and facilities; the sexualisation of girls and women; pornography/prostitution and the harms of the global sex trade; surrogacy as a violation of women’s human rights; and ending male violence against girls and women. We understand that sex-based oppression affects all women, and underlies all abuses of female rights. We support the right of women to speak freely about the inequities and discrimination they experience. We aim to give a voice to girls and women in the pursuit of justice, peace and security. We support full autonomy and personal freedom for all women.

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26 Comments

26 Comments

  1. Ron

    November 20, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    Feminists have been spouting anti-male hate speech for decades. You lot are just reaping what you’ve sown.

    • Geoff Holloway

      November 20, 2018 at 1:43 pm

      80-90% of violence is perpetrated by men against women or females – just look at domestic violence and abuse of children statistics! Feminists have not been spouting “anti-male hate speech for decades” – but I would not blame them if they did!

    • Peter Black

      November 20, 2018 at 3:39 pm

      Ron, I suggest you find and watch the movie – Suffragette.
      It may help you obtain a better understanding.
      Good luck.

    • Peter Black

      November 20, 2018 at 4:09 pm

      Also Ron, are you aware that in Australia, every 5 days a female is beaten and killed by a male? Mostly it is by an ex-partner, and most likely due to feelings flowing from patriarchal ownership.

      When listening to 60s and 70s music, one really does notice the lyrical content is male ownership of the female.

      Have/Do you ever notice such things Ron ?

  2. Geoff Holloway

    November 20, 2018 at 11:54 am

    I am very disappointed with the debate so far. Date of birth should be eliminated from birth certificates! It promotes ageism, and discrimination based on age is widespread, irrespective of sex or gender!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-09/dutchman-emile-ratelband-seeks-to-change-his-age-to-49/10480648

    • Lola Moth

      November 20, 2018 at 3:36 pm

      Geoff, there is another thing I am concerned about with this issue. If a man transitions later in life, and after fathering children, do his children end up with no legal father? I am legally female so I can’t father children. How can someone with a birth certificate that states they were born female become the father on someone else’s birth certificate? How can it be OK to rewrite history in this way?

    • Simon Warriner

      November 20, 2018 at 3:53 pm

      But then how would the government know when to start paying the pension? Or should there be a /sarc at the end of the comment?

  3. Tony Stone

    November 20, 2018 at 11:01 am

    In my Aussie understanding, when you turf something, you throw it away. The agenda of these mental misfits is that they are trying to throw away reality and fact.

    Any politician who supports this form of deluded insanity should be thrown out of parliament as fast as possible. It seems it’s time for a new decent and responsible political party to take over, but where that will come from is anyone’s guess, and it’s probably not possible because of a rapidly fracturing society.

    It’s abundantly clear that the current party ideological rabble is not only useless, but brain dead, and it seems determined to destroy Tasmanian society, and any form of viable future, socially, economically and in every other way.

  4. Rob Halton

    November 20, 2018 at 2:14 am

    While I agree with Women Speak Tasmania and its objective to protect women’s interests, the intense measures for transgenders stampeding their self interests is not a healthy reflection of the way society is heading!

    I would hate to think that our State government is wasting its time with Labor and the Greens by even debating this nonsense which is no more than dealing with maladjusted persons who deserve very little in the way of sympathy for their socially outrageous demands on the public’s health at large.

    State Parliament should immediately stop all conversations on this ridiculous transgender nonsense which is of no importance.

    We should be dealing with prominent social issues such as child protection, violence against women, improvements to public health (including mental health) and the provision of affordable housing as these realities far outweigh the selfish uncontrolled transgender agenda that is being debated at the expense of reasonable social behavior.

  5. Claire Gilmour

    November 19, 2018 at 11:02 pm

    It’s becoming like a Bunning’s super store debacle – does the caramelised onion go on top of the sausage or the sausage on top of the onion?

    A REAL transgender woman would support women first! Not use women’s rights to change their rights for men.

    TERFS !?! is that for real/reality explanation? or just a cutsie acronym?

    Real people use their time trying to do things to protect the planet and its inhabitants, not use it for egocentrism.

    The following sums up my opinion ….

    https://www.facebook.com/AngryChristmasProductions/videos/266429574017850/

  6. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    November 19, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    Bronwyn, there is a cast iron rule of thread participation and a good one. Never, never, never ever directly react to a troll, or seen to be taking their bait. A troll’s agenda is solely to upset you and disrupt the thread. They are not genuine interlocutors .. unless you can pressure them into becoming one by resolutely and uncompromisingly staying on message.

    If a troll does raise an issue, you cover it .. but only in the sense of speaking to your larger audience. You use the troll to explicate your position to others without ever referencing them.

    Every time one of these tranny trolls comes at you, think of them as an unfortunate caricature/impersonator who has been overwhelmed by his or her sexual fantasies and deserves your sympathy. Remember that their aggression is driven by uncertainty and insecurity, as you would expect of someone who doesn’t know who, or what, they are.

    Don’t get upset. Indifference is like Troll Mortein. It doesn’t kill them, but it does leave them on their backs with their legs wiggling in the air.

  7. Joanna

    November 19, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    Tracy,

    “Radical feminism is a radical, structual, politicised response. Transgedwrism is liberal, individualistic, medicalised response to the problem of patriarchy’s rigid, repressive and reactionary gender norms.” Robert Jensen

    Transgender ideology does nothing to undermine patriarchal structures, neither does your activism or your personalised sticker.

    Femaleness is still hated, while femininity is embraced. I agree that some men can do femininity much better than women, but it does not make them female.

    This is the core point of discourse between trans ideology and radical feminism.

    We understand gender dysphoria, but we disagree with the proposed solutions to it. To us they are creating another set of issues that need a change of language, the policing of speech and thought, and the creation of new legal fictions.

    Bron wasn’t trolling .. she was engaging in a discussion. We have so little spaces for debate.

    You certainly enjoyed attacking her personally, while she was attacking the ideology or thought process.

    • Isla MacGregor

      November 19, 2018 at 1:39 pm

      Yes, interesting comment Joanna. No comment yet on the aggressive and hate mongering in the ‘I punch TERFs’ picture at the top of the article. Silence, as ever, is consent, with the trans lobby schtum as always.

    • Tracey Wing

      November 19, 2018 at 2:14 pm

      Joanna,

      Thanks. I think we can all find quotes and research that support our views and our ideologies. For myself, challenging the binary gender structure which patriarchy relies on is absolutely at the heart of helping to undermine it, so we simply don’t agree on that. No problem.

      It’s just that I am incredulous as to how a group of women can support that binary structure, and call it feminism, but then take it further by attacking another vulnerable minority.

      Historically as women, and for myself as a lesbian, we can see the impacts on us when our identity is invalidated, made invisible, and dismissed as lesser than the societal stereotypes of normality etc.

      All these things seek to dehumanise and silence us. How on earth a group of women who call themselves feminists can then turn around and seek to do that to another group beggars belief, and I will never accept it as OK.

      Cheers.

      • Rebecca

        November 20, 2018 at 8:56 am

        Transgenderism cannot undermine the ‘gender binary’ Tracy, because it requires a gender binary.

        ‘Trans’ means to go from one side to the other.

        Further, trans lobbyists do not merely claim gender identity. They claim a ‘sex’ identity. And sex is immutable regardless of innermost feelings. Sorry, not sorry.

      • Georgia Hallam

        November 20, 2018 at 11:24 am

        What is the cotton ceiling then Tracey, and as a lesbian, will you be familiar with this attack on lesbians?

  8. Joanna Pinkiewicz

    November 19, 2018 at 8:55 am

    Germaine Greer, in her book “The Whole Woman”, reminded us all that the main reason women deal with sexism and male violence is that we are seen by males (generally, overall, culturally) as non-men.

    It is fun, and not unjust, to make fun of us, and to mock us or to improvise us, because our identity is understood as that of as second class.

  9. Tracey Wing

    November 19, 2018 at 8:54 am

    Bronwyn, you are on the public record as saying the sticker is innocuous. It’s strange therefore that suddenly it’s ‘insulting and defamatory’ when it has your name on it, but then, as evidenced by the above article, you are very accustomed to misrepresenting .. well, just about everything really.

    I’m still laughing at that last one though, and very pleased that it got up your nose. Thoughts and prayers …

    • Isla MacGregor

      November 19, 2018 at 10:16 am

      Tracey, do you think it is at all possible for you to explain, in simple terms, in what way Bronwyn has been misrepresenting “everything”?

      Is it your purpose in supporting transgender rights to get up people’s noses while refusing to engage in an intelligent debate?

      Are you suggesting that transgender rights exist in a bubble all on their own, and that no ‘other’ members of the Tasmanian community have any rights to offer their views?

      There is an old activist adage .. “When they start attacking you, you know you are winning public support for your arguments and their reasoned logic.”

      Tracey, when you attack a named person in a derogatory manner with the intent to discredit them, you leave yourself exposed to justifiable criticism and disrepute .. and that goes for any organisations you work for, or support.

      • Tracey Wing

        November 19, 2018 at 10:56 am

        Of course Isla, I don’t mind people arguing with or criticising me or what I say. I’m not that precious. Here is a ‘simple’ example for you, as requested. Bronwyn states above “.. somehow trans rights activists feel entitled to demean those who express a different view. They don’t address those views ..”

        Bronwyn knows this is not true. In the Facebook conversation thread from which she cherry-picked there were very reasoned and rational discussion points from trans rights supporters, and that is just in that single conversation thread.

        Is it any wonder that when TERFS keep the same hateful mantra up, people decide to occasionally stop going to the trouble of continuing to debate, and instead try to lighten the mood, particularly when they know the cost of that sort of debate to their trans friends?

        I didn’t actually intend to discredit anyone (in this case I think Bronwyn does a fine job all on her own) so perhaps Isla, you could reflect on what this old adage means “What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander.”

        If TERFS want to keep trolling and baiting people who they know are members of a vulnerable and marginalised group (instead of going after the systems and institutions that really impact women’s rights) then they should expect a level of contemptuous ridicule, and “that goes for any organisations (they) work for, or support.”

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Tracey, please use and instead of &

        — Moderator

        • Rebecca

          November 20, 2018 at 8:58 am

          I’m curious about what those ‘reasoned and rational discussion points from trans rights supporters’ were? I’ve never seen anything reasonable from them as it always boils down to ‘transwomen are women’.

    • Rebecca

      November 20, 2018 at 8:57 am

      You are very daft, Tracy. Saying ‘women don’t have penises’ is very different to saying ‘this particular woman is a penis’ with the intent of humiliation.

  10. Lola Moth

    November 19, 2018 at 7:55 am

    This is the worst case of sexism I can think of – to take the sexual identity of being female and giving it away to any man who asks for it.

  11. Russell

    November 19, 2018 at 7:00 am

    These transgender advocates are delusional, and this self-determining gender tripe should be disallowed as utter rubbish in Law.

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