Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Economy

‘Logging burns conceal industrial pollution in the name of ‘community safety’

“Logging burns would not be needed (and a substantial amount of associated smoke not generated) if the forest had not been logged in the first place. It is imperative that government departments inform the public about the smoke pollution coming from logging operations, whose purpose is for private commercial gain.”

http://theconversation.com/logging-burns-conceal-industrial-pollution-in-the-name-of-community-safety-96712

One would expect there is going to be considerable burning when the new Hampshire hardwood timber mill gets going. I haven’t seen any mention of the air pollution which will come across the state from all areas of this operation.

This should be stated in the government’s election campaigning, not just some drummed-up benefits.

It is a known fact that those downwind will suffer. Distances are so short across the state that most people across the north of the state cop it when smoke is generated in the west of the state. It is known to come into Launceston.

EPA BLANkET Technical Report 29 – Smoke in northern Tasmania from a west coast planned burn, 15th October 2014 More examples can be viewed in EPA Technical Reports.

PM2.5 particulates from any pollution source can travel up to a 1000Km and stay airborne for over a week.

It should be mandatory for forestry to mechanically clear for fuel reduction reasons and to get rid of their residue. They have generated many names for wanting to burn, but you cannot fit smoke into different boxes; smoke is smoke.

March 10 2015 – Forestry Tasmania’s 150 burns are to be sneaked in with TFS fuel reduction burns

It is well proven and feasible to use alternative methods to burning; some of which are outlined here http://cleanairtas.com/departments/alternative-solutions.htm

Why should anybody be allowed to burn deliberately after reading this report on the health dangers of burning hardwood To evaluate lung toxicity.

*Clive Stott is a former city branch, vice-president of the Tasmanian Young Liberals. He doesn’t like the amount of secrecy the current Liberals operate under …

53 Comments

53 Comments

  1. Pete Godfrey

    May 20, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    Yes Clive that is right. The process the powers that be tell us is that they are protecting us, and that all that smoke is necessary.

    Of course there is no evidence that fuel reduction burns work beyond the year that they are carried out. In fact they do nothing at all if a crown fire comes through, but don’t tell the punters that.

    Instead of Hazard/Fuel reduction burns, most of the fires in Tasmania should be renamed as “Land Clearing Burns”.

    There are plenty of plantations that have only just been logged over near Targa that have been burnt ready for the next crop. They don’t even wait until the wood is dry, and so the creosote and other chemicals emitted are very rank.

  2. Alison Bleaney

    May 20, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    It’s an appalling situation that we find ourselves in with the touted message being that ‘it’s all for our own good’ which is bull dust of course!

    Wood burning is exactly that whether it’s Government forests, private plantations or TFS doing ‘vegetation’ burns. Smoke is smoke from all of these activities, and the adverse health effects, apart from the environmental degradation and loss of biodiversity, is documented ad nauseum.

  3. Chris

    May 20, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    There’s enough noxious gas coming from the STAND STILL merchant Fergie’s Son. At least he stands still while doing NOTHING, and waffles more like the religio Barney, the Forest Bear.

    Another 4 years, folks !

  4. TGC

    May 20, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    #3 … “Another 4 years, folks !” … and add to that the distinct possibility of a Shorten-led government.

  5. Ted Mead

    May 20, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    #4 … If your comment has anything to with this article, which appears not the case, then Shorten definitely [i]will[/i] be in government!

    What that means in relation to this article is that Shorten will support Tas Labor, and Labor here will continue on with the same blinkered ignorance regarding Forestry, fires and smoke.

    It’s a lose, lose scenario

  6. Simon Warriner

    May 20, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    If they left it until the waste was actually dry it would mitigate the problem considerably, but that would delay the rotation by a year and cost the owners money. We suffer so they can make a bigger buck. Socialise the costs and pocket the profits is how it goes in this industry.

    What galls me more though, is that we have legislation that punishes urban residents if they emit too much smoke from their wood heaters or rubbish fires, even at levels minuscule compared to the pillars generated by plantation waste burning that can blanket whole districts for days.

    The hypocrisy of that is truly spectacular.

  7. john hayward

    May 20, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    The only effective solution to the air pollution is a thorough replacement of LibLab govt at all levels.

    This was brought home at the May meeting of the Meander Valley Council which featured a review of the rates relief currently given to land covered by conservation covenants.

    A logger on the Council was pushing for covenants to be abolished as they are, yes, “locking up” our forests rather than letting them run free to socialise with skidders and excavators. Another councillor was pushing for the rebates to be reviewed and reduced in line with the loss of property value that would obviously occur when the woodchip liquidation option is precluded.

    The mayor also thought the review was a good idea. The rates break enjoyed by plantations will apparently continue.

    John Hayward

  8. Clive Stott

    May 20, 2018 at 4:18 pm

  9. garrystannus@hotmail.com

    May 20, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    I live in the bush. A number of times I’ve been threatened by bushfires originating from farmer and forestry burns. None of these people ever came to me later to apologise for the trauma/worry consequent on my family for their second-rate, dangerous practices. Thank you Clive, for bringing this article about the Victorian situation to our attention.

    By the way Clive, once again (some weeks ago) residents in the Tamar Valley were again subjected to days of pervasive smoke, and I ruefully thought of those bushfires a few years ago which seem to have allowed bush-burning willy-nilly … all in the name of public safety. They (in my opinion) can stick their public safety ‘where the sun don’t shine’. No word do they utter about how those who suffer from chronic breathing disorders are literally at risk of their lives when the fires are lit. I think that the incendiarists are quite probably trying to sneak in ‘under the coat-tails’ of the ‘public safety’ brigade.

    I live in thick bush. If I were to act positively to prevent the risk of fire onto my property, then I should first stop my neighbours (farmers and loggers alike) from their pyro-practices. Why should I burn-out my own World Heritage Bush just so that I can’t be burnt out later by these pyromaniacs? The best way of fighting fires, in my opinion, is to put them out, not to light them! In my opinion, it’s people who start fires – why are they needed? They aren’t needed. Your website shows how we can use a variety of methods to deal with ‘forestry waste’. The bush itself, as far as I’ve observed it in The Liffey, needs no such aids, worthy as they are. But, no the pyros and the tree-croppers want the quick, cheap and easy way out: burn it off … burn it up … burn it down … burn it out … just burn it: it’s so easy to do … any old fool can learn it!

  10. Clive Stott

    May 21, 2018 at 5:44 am

    I’m not sure why Forico bothers to put up a website as the information they provide about their burns is of little value to the public.

    Forico has FSC endorsement and yet the public are not told burn dates, burn times, burn sizes, or when a burn is extinguished.

    https://forico.com.au/forest-activities

    Hereunder is an email from Jim Wilson, Plantation Operations and Services Manager …

    “I think there may be a misunderstanding surrounding the expectations of the system. The registration process provides an update to the stakeholder as the burn is planned and lodged on the website (ie sometime prior to the day of the burn – usually weeks). The intent is to engage with stakeholder early in the process and provide time and a conduit for discussion if this is warranted.

    “No doubt you are aware of the Coordinated Smoke Management System (CSMS) which dictates that we have no certainty that a burn will take place until about 0930 of each day, and we don’t have sufficient administrative resources to guarantee a timely update in the hour or so between CSMS feedback and commencement of lighting. However, where an immediate neighbour has requested it, we are naturally happy to arrange for our foresters to make contact personally once our plans are confirmed.”

    I am a stakeholder; I have to breathe Forico’s deliberate residue. Just as well it only hangs around “immediate neighbours”, NOT!

  11. Russell

    May 21, 2018 at 2:49 pm

    There was no pollution in the days of the true foresters. They would be turning in their graves seeing how it is all down these days.

    The Quenn should be lobbied to ask the Tasmanian Government set aside the Tarkine under the Queens Commonwealth Canopy

    https://queenscommonwealthcanopy.org/

    Canada has already set aside the Great Bear Rainforest, an area that covers 6.4 million hectares on British Columbia’s north and central coast.

    Under the Great Bear Rainforest land use order, 85% of the forest is now protected and 15% will be available for logging, supporting local jobs. The area available for logging is under the strictest logging rules in North America. The GBR is globally recognized for its unique biodiversity and is one of the largest intact tracts of coastal temperate rainforest in the world.

    https://queenscommonwealthcanopy.org/projects/the-great-bear-rainforest/

  12. Ted Mead

    May 21, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    #11 … Great concept, the ‘Queens Canopy Project’. It somewhat restores an inch of faith that I didn’t have in the Pommy royalty, al though conversely both Charles and Phillip have been outspoken on conservation issue in the past – so they are not all sybarites!

    One wonders how they managed to get that grand Bear Reserve proclaimed in Canada against a very powerful logging lobby – Good on them!

    So if this is the way to go then we should abandon any idealism towards becoming a republic in Australia, because it’s obvious that advocates like Turnbull aren’t going to save single twig of nationally significant forest under his rule!

    I’m looking forward to headlines one day .. ‘Queen buys Tarkine wilderness for posterity’.

  13. TGC

    May 21, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    #12 … “I’m looking forward to headlines one day .. ‘Queen buys Tarkine wilderness for posterity'” and then gradually “buy” all Tasmanian forests .. which could be re-named ‘Crown Forests’ or, in the tragic event .. ‘The Republic Forests’.

  14. Ted Mead

    May 21, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    #13 … You might recall the old topographic maps claiming bounded non-freehold land parcels as crown land.

  15. TGC

    May 22, 2018 at 12:00 am

    #14 … Quite so.

  16. Russell

    May 22, 2018 at 1:19 pm

    Re #12 … “One wonders how they managed to get that grand Bear Reserve proclaimed in Canada against a very powerful logging lobby …”

    I think it’s mostly on Indigenous land, for they are the only people who have any real connection to, and understanding of, the land.

  17. Ted Mead

    May 22, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    #16 … Not all is as good as it first appears. There is still 1 million of the 6+ million hectares allocated for logging as a revenue source for the locals.

    If the logging industry there is anything there, like it is here, then the forests will get totally trashed and there will be zero benefits to the locals.

  18. Shirley Brandie

    May 23, 2018 at 2:16 pm

    Clive Stott is absolutely correct. This kind of cover-up needs to end.

    People should be on the streets raising hell about this!

  19. Claire Gilmour

    May 23, 2018 at 5:16 pm

    And this is Will Hodgman taking Tasmanian tourism to the next level … http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php?/pr-article/taking-tasmanian-tourism-to-the-next-level1/

    What alternate reality do you live in Will Hodgman?

    Rivalling the Great Barrier Reef indeed ! It is dying … just like the Tassie wilderness your inept policies have created.

    You and your party, and your political donors, helped create the perfect fire-storm for devastation, and now that you’ve all but ruined the forests outside the world heritage areas you want to gift your mates the last bastions of heritage value forests for exploitation.

    Every single tourist I have spoken to in the last 8 months has complained about all the logging and the scarred landscape from logging going on, what they had been led to believe by government sponsored tourism were pristine wilderness and old growth forests.

    They ask ‘Where are all the big trees? Why are there only a few here and there? Why on the tourist routes are the forests being completely torn down to nothing?’ They ask why is all that good timber is piled up in rows to be burnt. Surely there is a better way? What can I say to them?

    Our is a blind, inept, conning, corruptible government! Apparently there is more money in it for political parties than there are health and well-being incentives for locals and tourists!

    There should be a questionnaire for all tourists when they leave Tasmania via boat or airports that asks them what they thought of Tasmania’s wilderness forests and its logging and burning. But the government is too gutless to want to hear, let alone acknowledge the truth.

    Apparently they seem to think that if they allow the mega rich flying into remote wilderness sites in world heritage areas, the rich punters will not see what is truly going on, or perhaps they will turn a blind eye to the smoke.

    There will be a block buster movie/series made of it all one day … and those wilfully ignorant politicians will have their short-sighted legacy marked in history.

    We shall call it … mark of the devil …?

  20. Russell

    May 23, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    Re #17 …

    The Great Bear Rainforest covers 6.4 million hectares on British Columbia’s north and central coast – equivalent in size to Ireland. This land is home to 26 First Nations that overlap the region and have lived there for millennia.

    The Great Bear Rainforest Announcement outlines the forest practices for the area and increases the amount of protected old-growth forest from 50% to 70%. Eight new areas covering almost 295,000 hectares will be off-limits to logging with 85% (3.1 million hectares) of the forest protected and 15% (550,000 hectares) available for logging to support local jobs and strengthen the region’s communities.
    The agreement also addresses First Nations’ cultural heritage resources, freshwater ecosystems, and wildlife habitat.
    The amount of habitat protected for marbled murrelet, northern goshawk, grizzly bear, mountain goat, and tailed frog will increase as each new reserve is developed.
    The Province signed agreements with the aligned Coastal First Nations, Nanwakolas Council and other individual First Nations to address specific concerns identified by First Nation communities. Most notably, many First Nations will have an increased stake in the region’s forest sector.
    The Province has also updated agreements with Coastal First Nations, Nanwakolas Council and other first individual First Nations to increase their allocation of forest carbon credits to sell and utilize for development projects of importance to them.
    In 2015, working with many of the same First Nations and employing the same ecosystem-based management approach, four Marine Plans for the areas next to the Great Bear Rainforest were completed through the Marine Plan Partnership.
    With the Great Bear Rainforest and Marine Plan Partnership combined, the largest land and marine ecosystem in the world will be managed using EBM.

    https://greatbearrainforest.gov.bc.ca/tile/gbr-agreement-highlights/

  21. Russell

    May 23, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    Frank Strie may be able to give us some insight into how EBM stacks up with their forest practices.

  22. max

    May 24, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    Forest regeneration burns are masquerading as fuel reduction burns to the detriment of everyone living in Tasmania, and as 2.5 particulate can travel thousands of kilometres, anyone in Australia, given the wrong winds, can have long term health issues.

    Fuel reduction burns promote the growth of fire loving plants, and although they are seen as a quick fix, they can i fact be a future disaster as has been proven by hot scrub fires that have benefited from burns.

    The stupid clear felling and regeneration burns are not only a health issue – they have proved to be a financial disaster. Not only has Forestry Tasmania inflicted massive financial burdens on all Australians but it continues to show no respect for the same people by not cleaning up it’s pyromania.

    Sustainable Timber Tasmania (former Forestry Tas) fire-fighters are now included in legislation for cancer related diseases. Sustainable Timber Tasmania knows the danger of smoke but is still willing to continue to inflict smoke on the general public with cheap smoke-laden clean-ups of their money losing forestry practices.

  23. Russell

    May 25, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    Re #22 … “Sustainable Timber Tasmania (former Forestry Tas) fire-fighters are now included in legislation for cancer related diseases.”

    This is an admittance of guilt. So anyone suffering from related problems, during or after burns, should be able to sue FT/STT or whoever does the burn.

    There is no reason why these burns should ever occur. A better solution is to have the waste wood and debris removed to be cut it up, or mulch it and sell it to the public as firewood. It would probably be the most profitable part of the whole useless operation.

  24. Robin Charles Halton

    May 27, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    #23 … You can’t be serious about regrowth establishment without the proven scientific and practical use of a hot burn to achieve the seed bed.

    You can’t be serious by expecting waste wood to be gathered up from a coupe for mulch and firewood. I dare say you have already tried it with your rake and chainsaw fumbling around among log ends, bark, limbs and general debris on the ground!

    Firewood licences are usually available to the public for a short time between end of harvesting and burning, usually late summer to early autumn, so check with your STT office for details – but you are expected to cut your own, first in best dressed.

    No one in their right mind would expect a coupe, to be cleared with an excavator, to mulch the site or sell the firewood on site as salvaged from rough residues often covered in mud and gravel.

    Astute logging contractors usually have an arrangement, for firewood log salvage from these sites, with registered firewood merchants under the existing Harvesting plan, that is, when below pulp grade wood in log form is actually available and that is not always the case.

    I was down in the Russell River valley recently and noted a joker with an old tip truck chop a block from varied sized wood logs taken to a depot for cutting up. That is not uncommon sight in most rural areas where there is bush available as there is an increasing demand for firewood as the best form of domestic heat generation.

  25. max

    May 27, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    # 24 You can’t be serious about regrowth establishment without the proven scientific and practical use of a hot burn to achieve the seed bed.
    Robin, as a self proclaimed expert on forestry and the need for a hot burn for a seed bed you should also recognise that the health of the general population should come before smothering the state in proven dangerous smoke. Not only is forestry a drain on the states finances but it is inflicting dangerous 2.5 particulate on the general population. If inflicting a poor health outcomes is the only way to grow gum trees then grow something else for wood production. Lets face facts eucalyptus trees are fire lovers, are causing fire storms in any part of the world that they are grown, produce poor timber unless they are old growth and there are better trees for long term timber production.
    In a changing world with global warming, the recognised dangers of smoke, the fact that gum trees become fire bombs in elevated temperatures, it’s about time forestry was dragged into the modern world.

  26. Robin Charles Halton

    May 27, 2018 at 6:49 pm

    #25, Max if you cant stand gum trees and their ecological needs, usually fire at some stage in their life spans then you are definitely not within the context of the average person of living within Australia.

    There are always going to be differing types of burns that give off smoke to differing degrees within the Australian landscape, genetically I think it is about time you adapted after many generations, unless you have serious health issues then find yourself an environment like most others to do their best to cope in times of bushfires and varied reduction type burns.

    I have not heard of any grizzling this year on the media or otherwise, this is the first episode of whinging.

    Indeed swift regen burns are ideal, over in a few hours dependent on weather conditions, SDI and fuel prepardness and moisture content.

    Reduction burns are essential to keep fuel loads under control and to reduce attack effort and cost of quelling severe bushfires that firefighters may always have to deal with till kingdom come.

    Bullshit, local native eucalypts grow excellent timber and offer environmental attributes for nature as well.

    Other partial alternatives for timber are radiata which is pretty widespread these days, generally second rotation ground slash may not require burning as trees are planted and not sown, their response differs to that from eucalypts.

    Unfortunately Max you may have to cope with the Australian way of life for most of us is fine!

  27. Russell

    May 27, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    Re #24 … “You can’t be serious about regrowth establishment without the proven scientific and practical use of a hot burn to achieve the seed bed.”

    Again, read “The Biggest Estate On Earth” and avail yourself of the facts accumulated over thousands of years of fire science. Your forestry ‘science’ is nothing but industry-funded rubbish driven by those who want to profit from it .. those forever on the most elite form of welfare in Australian history.

    But when asked how can such an industry lose $650,000 per week for 30 years, you go quiet! Once again here’s your chance to answer.

    “You can’t be serious by expecting waste wood to be gathered up from a coupe for mulch and firewood.”

    Wow! You’ve got the machinery to rake it up into your nice long burn piles. There are hundreds of people all over Tasmania making a quid “fumbling around among log ends, bark, limbs and general debris on the ground!” That’s more money than FT/STT will ever make.

    “No one in their right mind would expect a coupe, to be cleared with an excavator, to mulch the site or sell the firewood on site as salvaged from rough residues often covered in mud and gravel.”

    It’s only a mess because of the useless dopes clear-felling it and overseeing its destruction! Decent timber workers of the past never left the place like a moonscape, but they made money from it until they were mostly put out of work by the ‘forest industry’ maaates.

  28. mike seabrook

    May 28, 2018 at 2:22 am

    timing – expect after grape harvesting time as expect they threaten to sue from smoke taint in their wines.

  29. mike seabrook

    May 28, 2018 at 2:24 am

    the red steer is more economic than dozing and chipping the residue – why not let the wood hookers in to minimise the refuse, and pay them if need be

  30. Mjf

    May 28, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    #29 … seabrook

    The wood hookers go in if they choose to. There’s a process for getting a wood licence. Perfect.

    Instead of a single large burn event, let’s divide it hundreds of times and send the smoke up individual house chimneys and flues for months at a time. Usually in suburbia with many others where the effects are concentrated, not to mention the overlooked additional emissions involved in gathering, cutting, transporting, processing and delivering the firewood product.

    Is this a step forward ? I suppose someone’s getting their arse warmed eventually.

    But isn’t all smoke bad, especially for those with respiratory issues ?

  31. Robin Charles Halton

    May 29, 2018 at 3:52 am

    #29, Mike Seabrook … Woodhookers – pay them, if need be!

    Hang on here son, there is no money in forestry residues. As it stands a domestic firewood licence is a privilege. A bit of old fashioned public service continues with STT.

    It’s a matter of being in the know so don’t cheese off your local forestry people like some of this mob does regularly!

    I usually deal with a couple of old school Tech foresters, although they are much younger than me, out at Derwent Park. I suppose because I know them from the past, it helps! We can always relate to each other, keeping each other up to date on road conditions. Blocked 12″ culverts are the worst offenders on the older bush roads where we often go, and of course black tracking inappropriate activities around the bush sites, keeping watch protecting our own interests. It helps the team.

    Mike, I strongly advise, first in best dressed, and be quick and snappy to get at the best pickings – remembering you are only an amateur at the game of wood hooking. Safety first!

    STT need about 2-5 t /ha of dry residues for the regen burn that usually follows, preferably in the same season the area was harvested. So if the loggers finish a coupe, which means restoration work for example, grips on tracks for controlling water run off, bark is placed in piles, residue can be distributed away from fire-breaks. Often a contractor will place residue logs purposely so they can be cut for wood.

    Say if a coupe is completed in January you can bet that intense burning will take place in March-April with bugger all wood left, post burn. The window of opportunity for domestic firewood collection is often for only a couple of months.

    Burns are scheduled quite efficiently these days, and there is no namby-pamby nonsense about delays so the last log of firewood can be removed off site!

    The downside for STT these days is lack of local knowledge by new incoming staff, and lack of regular local field staff roaming around!

    I am not afraid to pick up a shovel to unblock a culvert or two. Its’ in my interests as I am a person who is interested in the environment as a whole – whether I am visiting Production Forest or former State forest areas where FC/FT have build roads.

  32. max

    May 29, 2018 at 6:22 pm

    # 26, Robin … There is nothing wrong with Tasmanian native eucalyptus timber, or should I say there wasn’t.

    Why did the board-walk in Launceston rot, and need constant renewing until the Council was forced to replace it with plastic? Why did my hardwood fence shrink off its nails when the original lasted 50 years? Was it because the mob you worked for allowed clear felling for wood chips so that mature logs are gone? Selective logging allowed immature trees to reach their full potential. Selective logging never needed a regeneration burn.

    Where do you suggest I go when my environment is invaded by smoke? No one can adapt to 2.5 particulate, and for you to suggest it shows you refuse to acccept that what you preach is wrong

    Why do you refuse to answer Russell Langfield? Did your industry ever make a profit?

  33. MjF

    May 29, 2018 at 7:20 pm

    Why did durable new piles and decking have to be imported from NSW & Qld across the country to WA to rebuild the historic tourist attraction, the Busselton jetty (at great cost) several years ago ?

    The suitable local timber was/is locked away in formal reserves, waiting to be burnt to the ground or die of old age, fall over, decompose and provide habitat for beetles.

    That’s why.

  34. garrystannus@hotmail.com

    May 29, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    #32, Well Max, you (perhaps) have ‘struck the nail on the head’.

    The ‘River Edge’ board-walk began to decay after just a few years. In reading your comment, I recalled the (red gum) blocks of wood laid in Elizabeth St, Melbourne. They saw service through centuries, were later overlaid with bitumen and taking all manner of traffic – first horse and cart, then trams, then cars etc. They were still in use after I came to Tas in the 1980s. They are possibly still there below that street, benefiting from the periodic renewal of fresh bitumen over them.

    Your remark, Max, about the 2.5 particulates is well made. These particulates are the ‘little ones’ which could make a person think that they therefore must be harmless. But, au contraire, mes amis: the smaller the particulate, the easier it is to get into our bloodstream/lungs.

    In my opinion, #26’s strength has always lain in his opposition to the lie of wood-chipping, and in his opposition to the John Gay pulp-mill, yet he has an apparently inveterate hatred of greenies, and coming from he who has long professed a love of the bush and of our natural environment, you’d have to wonder what a psychologist would make of such arrant, contradictory positions. Is such a person in denial? Is such a person ultimately (however) an apologist for all that we’ve seen go wrong in these, the forests of our state?

    And, as a post-script, might I ask MJF, who I have long regarded as an articulate and often credible spokesperson for the timber industry, whether he ever did go and inspect the co-ordinates that Ted, after some prompting, did supply?

  35. Claire Gilmour

    May 29, 2018 at 11:24 pm

    At #31, Robin Charles Halton says … “Say if a coupe is completed in January you can bet that intense burning will take place in March-April with bugger all wood left, post burn. The window of opportunity for domestic firewood collection is often for only a couple of months.”

    Rubbish! If I were a betting woman, I’d win and you’d lose your money, Robin. Never, ever, has Forestry (SST) done that in the far north west, anyway. They always wait at least a year or two, if not up to 4 years, before burning. They wait until the site is well into its natural regeneration stage and then burn to make the site sterile so as then to sow their preferred species. More here: http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php?/article/regeneration-or-degeneration-for-future-generations/

    Download the pdf file on the following link to see truth, Robin … http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php?/article/ashes-to-ashes-dust-to-dust/

  36. Clive Stott

    May 30, 2018 at 2:42 am

    Robin Halton you sure are mixed up.
    The people selling fire wood logs are even having to advertise that it is NOT plantation timber. Why? Those who do burn want real wood that they can get heat out of that doesn’t smoke! They don’t want wood covered in mud or with grit impregnated in it.
    Plantation wood is on the nose and people are speaking up.
    In many states of America our eucalypts are deemed to be a noxious weed.

    Firefighters are provided with “The best available personal protective equipment.” and yet they are contracting cancers. What chance does this give the general population exposed to many of the same toxic particulates? Why are they compensated without having to show cause and we aren’t?

    “Outdoor air pollution is a leading environmental cause of cancer deaths.” – IARC 17/10/2013.
    The specialized cancer agency of the World Health Organization, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), announced today that it has classified outdoor air pollution as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1, the highest along with asbestos and mustard gas}.
    After thoroughly reviewing the latest available scientific literature, world leading experts convened by the IARC Monographs Programme concluded that there is sufficient evidence that exposure to outdoor air pollution causes lung cancer (Group 1). They also noted a positive association with an increased risk of bladder cancer.

    Particulate matter, a major component of outdoor air pollution and smoke, was evaluated separately and was also classified as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1).”

    Robin you talk about different types of burns. Go away, smoke is smoke, you can’t assign it to different little boxes!
    I will say it again just for you. Please read the alternatives to forestry burning which can be found here http://cleanairtas.com/departments/alternative-solutions.htm

    Ash seed beds? That argument was put to bed years ago by your own FT chief.
    You really must get with it and modernise your thinking.
    If you were in the army I am sure you would be told to, “Get into step Halton and catch up!”

  37. MjF

    May 30, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    &36;
    If you check the DPIPWE weeds declaration, you will find even radiata pine is a listed noxious weed in Tasmania.

    Hasn’t prevented a sizeable industry operating around this resource for many years with many more to come.

    Being designated a weed only means something if not useful.

  38. MjF

    May 30, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    #35, Gilmour … An interesting walk down memory lane with your linked article titled ‘regeneration or degeneration …’

    It appears I missed this one at the time as I see no record of my responding in the commentary.

    I now take issue with a number of aspects in this ‘report’, not the least of which is your financial analysis.

    I’d say your financial return numbers are false, and which a number of gullible commentators eagerly swallowed up.

    Are you good to discuss ?

  39. Clive Stott

    May 31, 2018 at 3:27 am

    #36 … “Being designated a weed only means something if not useful.”

    Something, or someone? Then I know a few weeds.

    Eucalypts are designated this way over there because of their intense fire rating, so I am informed.

  40. MjF

    May 31, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    Stotty, #39 … I would think a ‘someone’ could still be a weed whether useful or not.

    Perhaps you could check back with your sources as to why eucalypts are being grown in the many US states at all.

  41. Claire Gilmour

    June 1, 2018 at 2:02 am

    #38 … Mr Miffed, Ha you missed the truth, go figure.

    The figures came from the horse’s mouth – the contractor.

    It’s always a very enlightening, great day in the forest when you can sit down amongst the destruction with a beer and have a chat – and do some heart to heart with the lowest common denominator – in the scam …

    It’s my forest nymph speciality .. walking out of the forest into the clear-fell, and with bright eyes and bushy tail, getting to the truth …

    The forestry boys always want to talk in private, they want to unload all that the industry and government has done to them and destroyed their long term futures by taking and destroying all the forest in an area.

    In the meantime FT (STT) and the government have collected info into files on all those who question their strategies and anomalies .. all collected for ‘spin doctor’ strategy.

    Government, forestry, and government supported forestry in Tasmania should be looked into deeper, even deeper than the banks are.

    Is that available enough for you? They never recognise me from all the Forestry spin … just how the Giant blue Freshwater Crayfish can shed her skin and ….

    UTAS research shows that climate change could affect regeneration after bushfires …

    MAY 30 2018
    Regeneration after bushfires could be compromised by climate change, according to research from the University of Tasmania.

    Professor Steven Smith and Dr Lu Wang from the School of Natural Sciences looked at how certain chemicals, produced by bushfires and crucial to stimulating new plant growth, respond to warming temperatures.

    “We found that high temperatures and droughts can inhibit germination,” Professor Smith said.
    “Some seeds might be vulnerable.

    “We have highlighted an issue that people are not aware of and it may be that ecologists follow up and look at the impact on regeneration.”

    Professor Smith and Dr Wang studied karrikins, which are among the most important group of chemicals which stimulate the germination of seeds of many types of plants following a bushfire.

    They found that karrikins will only stimulate seed germination under conditions which favour seedling growth and establishment.

    Using the study species Arabidopsis thaliana (also known as thale cress) Dr Wang found that if the temperature is too high, or if the seed experiences water deficit during exposure to karrikins, seed germination is inhibited rather than stimulated.

    “Despite the scenes of blackened landscapes following bushfires, we know that new plant growth will soon emerge and that before too long the green landscape will return,” Professor Smith said.

    “Our study found that even a few degrees above the optimum germination temperatures, karrikins can inhibit seed germination.

    “If this discovery holds true for fire-following species more broadly, it could point to serious consequences for landscape recovery after bushfires as we experience more frequent warm periods due to climate change.”

    Professor Smith’s latest findings build on his pioneering research in the field, as it was his team who originally discovered the mechanism by which chemicals, produced by bushfires, stimulate germination of dormant seeds.

    “We might find that landscapes experiencing warmer weather following a bushfire, might show poor seed germination and reduced species diversity, resulting in less effective landscape regeneration,” he said.

    “These findings argue for further research to determine the impact of this response of seeds to karrikins in natural environments, and to find ways to better manage regeneration after fires.”

    The research paper, ‘Karrikin-KA12 signalling provides Arabidopsis seeds with tolerance to abiotic stress and inhibits germination under conditions unfavourable to seedling establishment’, has been published in the prestigious journal New Phytologist.

    https://www.examiner.com.au/story/5438976/climate-change-could-affect-regeneration-after-bushfires/?cs=95

  42. Russell

    June 1, 2018 at 2:06 pm

    This is typical of a business which has lost the equivalent of $654,000 every week for the last 30 years.

  43. Russell

    June 1, 2018 at 2:15 pm

    Re #40 … And you could tell us where all the wildfires in the USA occur.

  44. MjF

    June 1, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    $41 … Awesome bush nymph, although if this is an example of your speciality, I say look to do something else.

    Clearly your friend the contractor yanked your chain and had a good old laugh at the Gilly’s expense.

    Let’s see here, a combined earn of $40,000 to the contractor to bush and cart. Hmmm …

    See if you can follow this GFC Girl:

    At the very least a 22 ha clear-fell of regrowth NE bush would yield 200 t/ha. Do you concur? I base this on my many years of experience assessing standing forest, and comparing against recovered volumes after harvest.

    So, the coupe realistically threw up 4400 tonnes (22 x 200) as a minimum for which your newest friend earned $40 k.

    That’s a grand total of $9.09 per tonne to bush, load and cart. That’s impossible, as contractors don’t work for such ridiculous numbers.

    By way of comparison, a realistic number would be 16 / t on truck at the time of harvest, and another $7 / t to cart to Burnie.

    I quote these numbers from actually working in the industry and setting rates for harvesters and carters. I know what they will work for, and what they won’t.

    I am presuming this coupe is near your place given your frequency of coupe inspections and ongoing ‘observations’, therefore I have a reasonable working knowledge of the cartage distances.

    At this point I strongly suggest at least a portion of the wood would have been carted to Hampshire rather than all to Massey Greene at Burnie because that’s how it used to roll in those days. The very palest pulpwood was called AP wood, and it was processed at MG. The general quality pulpwood went to Hampshire which added another $6 to the $7 Burnie cartage to Burnie (now $13 in total) therefore I propose a pro-rated cartage component of a 50/50 split or $10 as a representative across-the-board cartage cost.

    It’s now clear the contractor (your trustworthy, beer sharing buddy friend) actually earned around $28 / t on average, not the ridiculous $9.09 /t you claim. Let me guess, you brought the beers, right ? Either you’re a liar or the contractor is.

    As far as the returns to Gunns and FT are concerned, your man would have no idea what the MDPs to FT were, especially as there are two separate MDPs involved (wood to Hampshire and wood to Massey Greene).

    They would also have no idea what the Gunns sale price would have been (on a bdmt basis) to even guess what Gunns’ profit margin may have been.

    Neither entity was in the business of making known their sale or stumpage prices to contractors.

    You financial summary seems total crap, either disingenuously made up by yourselves or via mischievous contractors playing you for an all too eager fool.

    The rest of your copy and paste is an interesting scientific perspective and worthy of some consideration. Nobody would argue that every coupe is a roaring success, regeneration wise.

    How about some current photos from the same points to show what’s happened in the intervening years ? That might prove something. Just as a follow-up ‘bush nymph’ to verify your original moonscape claims ?

    Btw, what aspects of the FPC did you hold FT to, which you say they were prepared to ignore, in saving such a significant area of the coupe ?

    #43 … Is that a question or a statement ?

  45. Russell

    June 2, 2018 at 1:10 pm

    Re #44 … Try answering it, honestly.

  46. Mjf

    June 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    #45 … So a question ? I honestly don’t know but I’m guessing the west coast predominantly.

    Funny thing, just as I was typing this out, news coverage of fires in California and New Mexico came on the box.

    Not a euc in sight, but plenty of smoke.

  47. Clive Stott

    June 3, 2018 at 3:18 am

    Mjf, #46 … Your comments are weeds, and In your words “not very useful”.

    Does this website answer your California, Portugal and Australia eucalypt problem? http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-portugal-eucalyptus-fire-20170620-story.html

    Time to stop deliberately setting them on fire, eh? Time we too, started growing plantation trees that are not so volatile. There wasn’t a euc in site because they had burnt!

  48. Russell

    June 3, 2018 at 2:14 pm

    Re #46 … Really?

    California is riddled with euc plantations. They were first planted in the 1800s for timber, as they grew quickly to replace the local timbers disappearing. Then a similar scam to Australia’s was introduced to encourage farmers to plant eucalypts for pulp and paper.

    You probably can’t see them Martin, because you don’t want to, or they were the ones now fallen that helped cause the wildfires you’re watching.

    Why don’t you ask the families of those who died in the fires, what caused it?

    Same problem in Portugal, Thailand and other countries for the same reasons we have increased wildfires in Tasmania and Australia – unnaturally closely planted eucalypts and conifers.

    Now try not to evade answering the question that I once again pose you: How can you continue to support a Tasmanian business which has lost the equivalent of $654,000 every week for the last 30 years at the same time as putting thousands of former timber workers out of a job?

  49. MjF

    June 3, 2018 at 3:18 pm

    # … What’s the go with dropping Langfield, Langfield ?

  50. Clive Stott

    June 3, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    #49 … Are you MjF or Mjf?

    What’s the go in dropping capitals?

  51. mjf

    June 3, 2018 at 10:59 pm

    $40
    The “h” is silent.

  52. Russell

    June 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm

    Re #49 … Once again Fitch – “How can you continue to support a Tasmanian business which has lost the equivalent of $654,000 every week for the last 30 years at the same time as putting thousands of former timber workers out of a job?”

  53. Clive Stott

    June 5, 2018 at 3:50 pm

    $654,000 every week for 30 years!

    People on the mainland have had to prop us up year after year.

    So many opportunities wasted. So many people dying or in pain waiting for surgery. Hospital wards closed and ambulances ramping because there is no money.
    So many people breathing smoke because there is no money to get rid of their loss-making logging residue.

    Are you up to commenting Fitch or is the “h” silent?

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