Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Economy

‘350 year-old celery-top pine logged in Tarkine …

*Pic: Banner from tree-sit

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Rapid River protest …

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The banner

Bob Brown Foundation is calling for an immediate end to logging in Tasmania’s Tarkine rainforests after independently and scientifically dating a logged celery top pine from the same area at 350 years old. A cross-section of the pine is on display at the foundation office.

This morning conservationists are protesting in an area of ancient rainforest that is to be logged in the remote Rapid River region of the Tarkine. A conservationist is in a tree sit.

“The largest temperate rainforest in Australia is being logged for woodchips and timber supplied to the contentious Malaysian logging company Ta Ann.

“We are calling for an urgent moratorium. These globally significant rainforests should be protected in a World Heritage listed National Park,” Bob Brown Foundation’s Campaign Manager Jenny Weber said.

“The logged celery top’s first year of growth was in 1660 when King George the 1st of Britain was born, the Royal Society was formed, Louis the 14th was King of France and the takayna people had been living in harmony with their region for many generations.

“This tree was growing in the Tarkine 150 years before the first Europeans arrived on its shore,,” Jenny Weber said.

“Sadly, there are many much older trees in the Tarkine, like myrtles up to a thousand years old, which face the chop. Where the celery top pine fell was rich with habitat for the endangered Masked Owl, Grey Goshawk, Wedge-tailed Eagle, all shamefully being lost to logging.

“This logging should stop,” Jenny Weber said.

Ta Ann: Response to Bob Brown Foundation

Jenny Weber: Conservationist arrested in Tasmania’s Tarkine defending rainforests from logging

• Robert Middleton in Comments: “Here in Tassie we likes to kill stuff. Ya’see, mate, it’s in our blood. First the wretched, miserable convicts, then those dirty, stinkin’ blacks, on to the smelly, furry little animals – so glad we exterminated that useless Tassie Tiger. Now there’s not much left that needs some killin’ but the TREES, specially them older ones like that foolish El Grande. Burn, baby, burn! Who cares if it’s 350 years old? It’s just a stupid tree! Even if it was 3500 years old, no reason not to kill that sucker. Lived long enough. Time to kill it, ’cause we’s foresters and we knows what’s best. Watchin’ it fall would be like my ancestors whoopin’ and hollerin’ after they downed another black. Another one bites the dust, as they say. Long live the good old days of VDL – keepin’ the spirit alive, here on the Devil’s own island.” – Anonymous

Jenny Weber: Ta Ann receives conflict wood supply from Tasmania’s Tarkine

37 Comments

37 Comments

  1. Teresa Maddox

    May 29, 2018 at 4:32 pm

    Oooops! Damn those Greenies for exposing this! I can’t wait for the vilification from the deforestation mob!

  2. Robin Charles Halton

    May 29, 2018 at 5:19 pm

    Its none of the BBF business. These are operations on Production Forests.

    There is plenty of CTP locked up in the Savage River National Park up in the Donaldson River region. I’ve seen most of it when carrying out aerial fire spotting duties, and when I have been carrying out extensive aerial fuel reduction in the Longback Plains area west of Savage River Mine back in the 1980’s and early 90s.

  3. MjF

    May 29, 2018 at 5:35 pm

    BBF and mouthpiece Weber continue to struggle for any meaningful recognition. A tree stump has been ‘independently and scientifically’ ring counted to 350. Of course. They may have missed a few , let’s say it’s 368 – so what ? There must be an age limit now on trees to be felled.

    When did that one come in, Jenny ?

    Alarmist appeal dismissed as being vexatious and time wasting.

  4. abs

    May 29, 2018 at 7:23 pm

    You didn’t have to wait long, Teresa.

    Two apologists for the money-wasting environmental vandals were quick to attack the messenger, and state that this kind of activity is none of their business.

    When a 350 year old tree is cut down in order for the taxpayers to lose money, and the apologists cry ‘so what, none of yer business’ … well, it is clear to see who really struggles to recognise what is meaningful.

  5. john hayward

    May 29, 2018 at 7:36 pm

    When you are the smallest state branch of the party of federal government, and your federal branch has just handed a half billion dollars to a small pack of corporate mates to save the Reef .. and signed off on the clearing of 2,000 ha of Reef catchment for a big grazier … you really need to do something to demonstrate you are crass and venal enough to be a trusted part of the Lib team.

    OK, so the celery top looks like a token gesture, but you can honestly argue that a goodly portion of the forest pork barrel has already been gifted to worthy causes .. such as Gunns and Ta Ann. And you can point to the howls of outrage from environmentalists and other sapient types as proof that the celery top did not die in vain.

    John Hayward

  6. MjF

    May 29, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    “Where the celery top pine fell was rich with habitat for the endangered Masked Owl, Grey Goshawk, Wedge-tailed Eagle, all shamefully being lost to logging.”

    Come on Weber, draw the long bow a little further.

    What about SP, OBP, EBB, STQ, EQ, GFC, WBSE, TD and AK ?

    Surely suitable habitat for these iconics as well.

    I expect more out of these veterans.

  7. Burnie Regen

    May 29, 2018 at 9:14 pm

    I have to ask this question: What happened to the tree and all of the other minor species that are not gifted to Ta Ann? I know they are not making it to the craft industry and Suspectable Timbers Tasmania charging a fortune for anything they do let through.
    Nothing has changed-only the name.

  8. Andrew

    May 29, 2018 at 11:43 pm

    Just out of interest, how long do nothafagus cunninghamii (myrtle beech) live?

  9. Teresa Maddox

    May 30, 2018 at 1:05 am

    #4 … No I didn’t have to wait long, abs.

    I was rather disappointed with the trite responses from these pros though, about what you would expect from those who detest scrutiny around anything that brings light to the dark side of their beloved welfare agency.

  10. Robert Middleton

    May 30, 2018 at 4:06 am

    “Here in Tassie we likes to kill stuff. Ya’see, mate, it’s in our blood. First the wretched, miserable convicts, then those dirty, stinkin’ blacks, on to the smelly, furry little animals – so glad we exterminated that useless Tassie Tiger. Now there’s not much left that needs some killin’ but the TREES, specially them older ones like that foolish El Grande. Burn, baby, burn! Who cares if it’s 350 years old? It’s just a stupid tree! Even if it was 3500 years old, no reason not to kill that sucker. Lived long enough. Time to kill it, ’cause we’s foresters and we knows what’s best. Watchin’ it fall would be like my ancestors whoopin’ and hollerin’ after they downed another black. Another one bites the dust, as they say. Long live the good old days of VDL – keepin’ the spirit alive, here on the Devil’s own island.” – Anonymous

  11. philll Parsons

    May 30, 2018 at 12:25 pm

    Early on during the Dams protests, I walked through the forest above the proposed Gordon dam site and along a freshly fallen tree trunk having over 20 metres of clear trunk before coming to the head to allow identification from the characters I was familiar with at that time.

    It was a celery top ‘pine’.

    I was never nimble on logs so you can imagine it was a wide trunk.

  12. philll Parsons

    May 30, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    #8 … Nothofagus species live in disturbance regimes in some of their range, having their potential disrupted.

    In Tasmania changes in fire regimes related to human activity have affected some of the older Nothofagus cunninghamii forests in northern Tasmania.

    Walking on the Western Tiers in 1973 or 4, I came across a re-entrant in the sandstone escarpment in which stood a mighty trunk many arm spans round.

    It had lost it’s head through some unknown cause but had grown side branches that had kept the trunk alive.

    Many year later I saw Nothofagus mooreii in the Lamington NP where the original tree had died, but suckers had grown up from the base to become trees in a group.

    It is fascinating taking one example, be it the oldest or the tallest or the largest, but for me process of the life cycles has many more lessons.

    As a life estimate based on trunk diameter – about 450 years for an individual in ideal conditions, give or take 200 years.

  13. Tim Upston

    May 30, 2018 at 3:03 pm

    A tree that has survived 350 years is many years older than the morons who can’t wait to destroy it. Like a plague, we keep on creating barren earth from ancient verdant temperate rain forest.

    Intelligence is not big on this special island. Just look at the last state election results.

  14. MjF

    May 30, 2018 at 7:51 pm

    #8 … According to the DPIPWE website, up to 500 years in ancient, verdant, temperate rainforest … in this special land of low intelligence and name callers.

    I’m pleased though, that possessing one of these traits does not automatically lead to the other.

  15. Ted Mead

    May 31, 2018 at 1:00 pm

    # 14 … There are a few myrtles out there that notably exceed the 500 years that DPIPWE claim is their maximum.

    You wouldn’t expect any desk bound bureaucrat in DPIPWE to find them as there is not funding to get out of the office these days, unlike the copious funding of STT which would be more than elated to seek out and destroy at any opportunity.

  16. MjF

    May 31, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    #15 … I’m just saying … there will always be isolated exceptions to any species characteristic, but not so much E nitens though.

    DPIPWE is one official source of information. A lot more people will refer to, believe and be guided by that information than will believe what Ted Mead randomly claims. That’s the reality.

    Regardless, what are your true highest ring counts?

  17. Robin Charles Halton

    May 31, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    As I have substantially indicated before, this is Production Forest where CTP is being harvested, presumably for Brittons or Corinna sawmills, and would be a part of their already much reduced Special Species timber allocation.

    Again I specifically ask that the use of the iron fist of the law be slammed exceptionally hard on those from the Bob Brown foundation who lack any leadership by roaming the island looking to create trouble where ever they happen to arrive in the Production forest areas.

    Charges must be laid for those who have created a response by police especially where urgent police work had to be put aside. Harvesting contractors should be compensated for any lost time due to protestations, and paid with Bob Brown Foundation funds.

  18. Russell

    May 31, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    What the HELL are they doing logging the Tarkine? For who, and for what use?

    Another thing I would like to know is where the proposed Hermal Group’s plantation hardwood mill and engineered timber product manufacturing facility at Hampshire is going to source their hardwood, and what species of hardwood timber it will be using?

  19. MjF

    May 31, 2018 at 2:40 pm

    #17 … We used to have fledgling workplace protection laws to stamp out this rubbish behaviour but they failed spectacularly. Why isn’t the nincompoop premier and resources minister of yours rehashing this legislation as a matter of urgency ?

    FYI, Corinna Sawmills no longer exist. The business sold to Somerset Veneers, with the log supply, a couple of years ago.

  20. Ted Mead

    May 31, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    #16 … The age of trees now can be determined by 3D photo modelling, but of course youz cave dweller foresters wouldn’t know or care about that.

    You don’t need to core sample or chop a tree down to estimate it’s age any more.

    Science has moved on, but mindless foresters haven’t!

  21. Ted Mead

    May 31, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    #17 … You forget Robin, that the anti-protest law are impotent, and so there’s nothing to seriously deter such activity.

  22. MjF

    May 31, 2018 at 4:28 pm

    #20 … Fabulous technology .. not that average forest worker is armed, or needs to be armed, with 3D photo-modelling capability.

    If a tree’s decked, there’s nothing wrong with counting its rings. This is reliable enough – although not cutting edge technology, admittedly.

    So what’s the highest counts on mature myrtles so far from 3D photo modelling ? You don’t know, do you? Why bring something up when you can’t back it ? This is your problem Mr T. You possess no credibility.

  23. Ted Mead

    May 31, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    #22 … The Technology is there! I didn’t invent it, nor do I have to prove its results. Go and talk to the experts at UTAS if you need to know more.

    A word of advice though .. don’t use your real name when you phone them as the the call will probably be disconnected when they realise they are being approached by a reputable tree-killing nut job!

  24. Teresa Maddox

    May 31, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    #7… This might help answer your question. Check the comments for an answer from a special timber person!

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/1613061008928080?view=permalink&id=2197626887138153

  25. max

    June 1, 2018 at 2:41 am

    Sustainable Timbers Tasmania a glaring example of a name that is an oxymoron.

    The only reason that this tree still existed was the onward march of SST, and the clear felling madness that they preach had not, until this moment, reached it.

    ‘Sustainable’ – means to be able to continue at the same level. There will never be another 350 year old pencil top pine in this spot or in this area. A tree such as this will be gone forever and they tell us by name that they are sustainable – rubbish! If forestry was practised in sustainable way, then immature trees would be left to mature and there would be no need to keep destroying old growth forest to keep this unsustainable money-losing, misnamed behemoth from destroying the remainder of our forests.

  26. MjF

    June 1, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    #23 … Thank you Mr T, for proving my point. You claim there are myrtles older than 500 years out there, but you can’t produce the evidence from any form of information. I repeat, you have no credibility as a consequence.

    I don’t really foresee a situation where I need your words of advice Mr T, but thank you for the thought. You do sound a bit discriminatory towards we tree murderers at times, though. I’d like to think it’s all just bluster on your part.

    Back to Andrew .. I think the DPIPWE information is far more realistic and reliable than anything else on offer here.

  27. Edward Fensom

    June 2, 2018 at 4:41 am

    Some exchange of Technology and RFA news from different ends of the country would be helpful.

    Qld did not have a conventional RFA in 1998, but some benchmark studies were done. I do not think anything will be done in 2018. Qld Amendments to the Vegetation Management Act 2018 were gazetted in Qld but that means little for the East Coast Forests. Williams et al 2011(Gippsland to Cooktown)

    Some interesting work has been done with LIDAR to determine Forest Heights and separately Regrowth. Other LIDAR has some high density types which may determine basal areas but no field truthing projects available.

    The 3D tree modelling is little known here. Is there any further info? Qld Government agencies have 8 day satellite imagery, but it is not yet liberated.

  28. Stu

    June 2, 2018 at 12:43 pm

    A friend of mine has a small sawmill and processed many myrtle from Surrey Hills in years gone by. He ring-counted one of the largest he had ever cut, and he got a rough count approaching 1,000. I only have his word for this, but I don’t doubt it.

  29. Simon Warriner

    June 2, 2018 at 12:59 pm

    Carbon dating some if the original settlers’ myrtle fence posts might be an interesting exercise.

    As for Corrina Timbers, it has indeed become Somerset Veneers, owned by one John Gay, the teflon CEO.

  30. Russell

    June 2, 2018 at 1:01 pm

    Re #26 … But like the Japanese whalers, you would use the pathetic excuse of having to cut them all down to find out how old they were – in the name of ‘science’.

  31. Ted Mead

    June 2, 2018 at 2:56 pm

    #28 … Yep, I don’t doubt that. The biggest myrtle trees establish themselves in well-protected reasonably flat terrain, though finding old rainforest tracts in the Surrey Hills away from the Hellyer catchment these days would be thin on the ground I’d reckon.

    I have found one further out west that I believe is around a millennium old, but I won’t be disclosing its whereabouts as to prevent some nut-job driving a core sample into it.

    The slowest but surest way to kill a tree is to open its inside up and expose it to fungi. It ‘s just like sticking a knife into one’s guts and then putting a band-aid over it, thinking that will inhibit bacteria getting inside.

    There is a lot of old rainforest around on the eastern fringes of the Tarkine’s Arthur Hellyer where myrtles were selectively logged, and often the big ones were left in preference for the straighter and healthier mid-age ones. These forests look exceptionally healthy because they were only selectively logged and not trashed as they are these days, and so the old loggers knew more about forest ecology that the modern day vandalistic pea-brains.

    #27 … Yes the LIDAR technology seems very accurate, and that is how most of the tall trees on the register in Tas were measured.

    As for the 3D modelling, I haven’t followed the data requirements on that, but I suspect you need to take numerous photos around the circumference of a tree at an estimated distance from the tree’s core. The modelling would then amalgamate all the images and produce accurate dimensions of the tree.

    Counting the age of a tree would involve references to other information, and probably some guess work. This is not as accurate as ring counting but the process is innocuous to a tree’s health.

    #22 and #26 prove there are still low IQ dunderheads around that think ring counting is the way to go!

    Unfortunately the MJF’s of this world won’t open their insular cerebrums to anything that’s not in the dogmatic guide of the ‘Handbook to killing anything that stands vertical’

  32. MjF

    June 2, 2018 at 5:01 pm

    #30 … I regard that as a stupid statement.

    Not preoccupied with, or required to, age date trees – so no, I wouldn’t follow your silly analogy.

    #31 … Naturally, another example of a mysterious way-out-west tree which shall remain anonymous and undisclosed by the world’s oldest bushwhacker. There’s a pronounced pattern here with your behaviour, Mr T.

  33. Russell

    June 3, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    Re #32 … Really?

    All you do is dodge and fudge facts in the name of lining your own pocket.

  34. MjF

    June 3, 2018 at 4:04 pm

    #33 … Really. One more time, a stupid statement.

    Anything you don’t follow there, Russell ?

  35. Russell

    June 4, 2018 at 1:24 pm

    Re #34
    $654,000 loss of public money EVERY WEEK for 30 years.

    Why would you support such a fraud unless you are making making a living from it?

  36. Robin Charles Halton

    June 4, 2018 at 3:29 pm

    Storm in a tea cup, I would suggest

    BBF’s objective have become very blurred and lack environmental authenticity, especially with their recent slapdash endeavours ranting over a small quantity of CTP being harvested on this production forest coupe.

    Ted #31 … Soar a bit further south of the Arthur Hellyer area for which most on the VDL Surrey hills block was converted to HWP in the 80s and 90s. There are tracts of intact old growth myrtle forest on the Crown to the south those on the better soils should be taller. In particular try west of the Coldstream which can be accessed back east along the 4 mile HEC transmission line as far west as along Betts Track south of the top Of the Luina Hill that runs south towards the upper Wilson area.

    There are a number of dozed old mineral exploration tracks, probably grown over by now but still manageable to access with the use of a decent sharp slash hook.

    I think that most of the area I refer to is now is covered by an extended Meredith Range Reserve status.

    I am unclear if mineral exploration is still occurring in the general area.

  37. max

    June 4, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    #36 … Robin’d — “Storm in a tea cup, I would suggest” And your ranting over a small quantity of CTP being harvested on this production forest coupe is your dismissive way of ignoring the fact that this coupe is a long line of coups that will never be replaced.

    Sustainable Timbers Tasmania had a name change to try and gloss over the devastating history of mismanagement of the Tasmanian forests.

    Robin, you continually defend the destruction of our native timbers, you refuse to answer questions on this money-losing madness, and you seem perfectly willing to see the demise of production forests for future generations.

    With your years of history and knowledge of forestry you could be a leader in fighting for the survival of the timber industry instead of championing it’s inevitable demise. Robin, you are like the Monty Python Black Knight .. no arms and no legs but still wanting to fight on.

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