Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Economy

‘Tarkine Logging Blitz uncovered by conservationists’

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Two areas of ancient tall eucalyptus forest and rainforest have been destroyed in the past months by logging in Tasmania’s Tarkine. Conservationists have uncovered the logging and called for immediate protection of the Tarkine’s forests.

“Community members are this morning protesting in a logging area in the remote Rapid River region of Tasmania’s takayna / Tarkine. Before Tasmania’s government pushed logging roads into these remote forests at tax-payers expense and destroyed the ancient ecosystems with logging, these forests have been intact dating back to Gondwana,” Jenny Weber said.

“In a shocking discovery by community members over the weekend, these ancient forests that have been undisturbed for millennia have now been destroyed for woodchips and supplied to the controversial Borneo logging and palm oil giant Ta Ann. On Premier Hodgman’s watch, Tasmania’s Tarkine is losing old growth rainforests for woodchips. We cannot afford to lose anymore ancient ecosystems like this,” Jenny Weber, campaign manager with Bob Brown Foundation said today.

“I first crossed the then-remote Rapid River in a walking expedition looking for the Tasmanian tiger in 1973. The rainforest was stunning. In 2018, Hodgman, who has never been within cooee of this wild forest, has issued its death knell through clump clearfelling, extraction for Malaysian logging giant Ta Ann, and then incineration killing all remaining wildlife. This is also killing Tasmania’s future, not least jobs, in a nature-hungry world,” Bob Brown said.

Bob Brown Foundation has today released drone footage to expose this logging of ancient Tarkine tall eucalyptus and rainforests to the world.

WATCH Drone footage HERE and HERE

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35 Comments

35 Comments

  1. Russell

    February 11, 2018 at 11:46 am

    Re #31
    “The good lord giveth and he taketh away.”

    More fiction.

  2. MjF

    February 11, 2018 at 10:42 am

    #32 … Good job you weren’t a judge hey. bear ? Your tone is A little negative but pleasing no fascists involved.

    Has that damn cable car up the old mount been erected yet

    Can you see from the skullery window ?

    I know, off topic. Indulge me.

  3. spikey

    February 10, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    sir fitch is kinda fetching
    like a stiff day throwing pots
    after a stiff night
    better hope there’s some ginger pills

    perhaps you can chat over lunch
    about the tour the good doctor took
    for the forester in charge of the family estate

    enlightening stuff
    very highbrow

    one wonders
    how turning a seemingly sustainanble
    endless resource
    into public debt
    extinction
    and foreign ownership
    is so noteworthy

    i guess some peeps read
    from different scripts

  4. MjF

    February 10, 2018 at 9:11 pm

    $28
    I’m sorry ted. Just when I thought we’d built some rapport.

    The good lord giveth and he taketh away.

    And it’s luncheon, not lunch. So crude @ times ted.

  5. William Boeder

    February 10, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    #27. Well well, MjF, odd-ball revelations are to be expected under a false-agenda Liberal party government.
    The interesting point to consider in this era of the false and fake news being presented by the major media platforms here in Tasmania, then the mainland of Australia.
    As an added point of interest, the origin of this nowadays new style of media insurrection directed to the masses had its nowadays origin in the USA, then this obvious failing soon became another of the unworthy exports from that country.

    Without this Goebbels-like instituted process the people of America would have greater access to the truth of the evils born in their USA, as without the truth the people will very likely engage in massive rallies of protest against such treasonous goings-in.
    (Circa the late 1960s portending an end to the unwarranted slaughter of both enemy and foe. American initiated War in Vietnam.)

    Forgetting this trendsetting scourge of the American government for the present, how long do you believe your godfather image (who may have been in league with Tasmania’s most reprehensible individuals, will be able to retain his erroneously awarded gong?
    Given that this entire Federal government department and its processes are as we speak, undergoing an in-depth scrutiny of their award eligibility standards currently based upon the irregular acceptance of persons when nominated.

    As the new protocols within this department will be to pursue each left field nominated person to determine if their bona fides have proper substance.
    Then that the singular claim that an individual person of indeterminate integrity is worthy of being considered as a person “genuinely deserving of a particular conspicuous merit award” is to be reviewed, in claiming the veracity of such deserved merit.

    My offer to you is that it may be in the best interests of your mate’s questionably-gained award, is not to gloat or become too fondly attached to the product of a most egregious process.
    Then the next matter for assessment will be the individual who signed the nomination form and declared the nominee’s appropriate qualifying merit.
    https//legaldictionary.thefreedictionary.com/egregious

  6. Ted Mead

    February 9, 2018 at 9:57 pm

    #27 – AM = Abominable medal – That’s what it’s become – Virtually anyone can get one of these if someone is willing to put the effort into nominating another.

    The fact that many regressive-insular politicians and the likes of who have received one in these is indicative of the useless and insignificant status of receiving such a medal has become!

    The AM was originally about recognition of an individual’s contributions to society. How can advocates of insatiable environmental destruction, autocracy, ingratiation and pure ignorance be award with anything beyond the Dodo Award?

    Let’s face it … ‘Forestry full stop’ has contributed nothing to society beyond a small percentage of population employment at the exorbitant cost of environmental atrocities and taxpayers’ debt.

    It would seem that Hans was possibly nominated by Paul Lennon, he who was possibly nominated by Hans in the first place? Forestry politics of scratch my back and I‘ll scratch yours. Rings a bell, doesn’t it?

    As for your lunch engagement, it would be a sure bet that it’s some decadent fanfare celebration paid for by taxpayers.

    Nothings changes beyond the boundaries of the gravy train widening!

    Karma Awaits!

  7. William Boeder

    February 9, 2018 at 7:36 pm

    #27. Hello the full quantum of MjF, I wonder how you can remain loyal to the rodent-pack that occupied a spot in Tasmania’s vastly discordant past.
    I will let you know about a historically known destructor and his due but only after my number of correspondences receive their response from Australia’s new Federal Attorney General The Honourable Christian Porter QC MP.
    He and I are correspondents and have been from the time of his appointment.
    (He having been appointed post the Ex-parte Senator George “Avid Ancient Alexander Library Book Accumulator” Brandis QC MP.)
    I am aware of a certain over-estimated importune agency that approves of mass environmental degradation in that they may advise you of the whereabouts of a known person that runs with the pack, better known to you & me as the falsely credited institute of nonsensical spielers and hoodwinkers (famous for misleading the Federal government as well the people of Tasmania.)
    I am unable to understand how you could associate yourself with a known wildlife expender, notorious truth-bender, government-funding defender, nil-substance integrity to render, environmental offender.
    (should I continue on?)
    I have become quite closely reliant on a research facility that can provide “facts overlooked” by certain ego-flapping individuals of absolutely nil conspicuous merit.
    Deary me if I have to resort to the truth and have to call upon my mate Christian, to forensically examine the claim into the validity of the bona fides constructed and hoped to be relied upon by a person undeserving.
    I would like to think that this serious bureaucratic in-efficacy that pervades your mind can be rectified so that the stiffness of your clear-felling resolve to gloat over matters of this kind may have been greatly exaggerated.

    I believe this link below will be helpful and may further advise you where others believed to be of an inferior ilk then deemed as hopelessly incapable of running a monopoly business at a profit, as to where many of these persons may have fled to.

    https://www.forestry.org.au/ifa-news/foresters-in-2018-australia-day-honours

    By the way, MjF, remind me one day to tell you a story about a bloke that had been revoked of an Order of Australia award.
    Before I relate that story, let me say that I am able to attest to the protocols involved when there has suddenly arisen the need to rectify a high-level Federal government appointment that had been proven to have erroneously occurred.

    People that have embarrassed a Federal government revered official function are not looked upon kindly, this insight is the best that I can offer.
    Do please be careful that the chips served with your Four-n-Twenty pie are to your liking and have not been overdone by the cooking process.

  8. Jack Lumber

    February 9, 2018 at 3:17 pm

    Re 27 MJF don’t you know the whole Australia Day process is “corrupt “

    Don’t take my word just ask Geoff Law AM ,

  9. Russell

    February 9, 2018 at 11:44 am

    Re #27
    Not going to answer #15 Fitch?

    Regarding Drieslma, you know Hitler was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and Aung San Suu Kyi even won it and now does nothing to protect her own people from those who persecuted her.

    Most awards mean Jack Shit.

  10. MjF

    February 8, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    To Halfwilliam
    Are you aware of the great man Hans Drielsma’s recognition in the Australian Day honours this year ? Yep, straya day, Jan 26, you know the one. The indigenous descendants call it some other name I think.

    Anyway, he’s been Recognised for his contribution to commercial Forestry, sustainable management practices, certification programs and to professional bodies, Much of this achieved during his tenure with FT I expect.

    Now you can refer to him as Dr Drieslma AM.

    How good’s that ?

    We’re luncheoning soon, may I pass on your heartiest congratulations ?

  11. Russell

    February 8, 2018 at 5:07 pm

    Re #22
    Why don’t you answer the simple question at #15 then?

  12. Jack Lumber

    February 8, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    William , another failure to launch moment in the coherent criteria .

    Ted it hard to fault your logic as it’s similar to
    “We all closer to dieing argument .” Also one day at a time
    Don’t think anybody is saying any govt entity is “ forever”
    And if STT can not deliver it should change or be stopped

    Does the same criteria apply to the TWS who by any
    measure has been a complete failure
    Do you ageee ?

  13. William Boeder

    February 8, 2018 at 1:04 am

    #22. No you haven’t been missed Lumber my hope was that you might have joined the truth brigade, alas I am wrong.
    In your above comment, you prattle about delivering a coherent argument, no thanks Jack, I would rather dwell on the unforgivable and failing Liberal State government, my reason for doing so is to further observe why it is their incapacity or be it their inexplicable ineptitude to introduce any new industry into Tasmania.
    Right from day one of the Will Hodgman led Liberal party State leadership government we the people of this State were bombarded by the Will Hodgman chant ‘our government will create new jobs for the Tasmania people’ but nope, instead his lackey minister Guy “the Zombie smiling” Barnett has since foolishly chosen to go against the will of the Tasmanian people and just ramp-up the clear-felling of Tasmania’s native forests.

    Now Jack Lumber, I am of the mind that your mate MjF is a clandestine supporter of “the Zombie Smiling” as he is also in favor of stripping greater amounts of Tasmania’s Crown Land native forests.
    Given that the number of big diesel-powered hydraulic-hosed ‘do it all’ machines, are now on the rise in our State, this is in lieu of any prospect of new jobs even in that profitless industry sector advocated for, yep, by the aforementioned Guy “the Zombie Smiling.”

    As far as I am aware the only change in the government jobs situation is the reverse in the numbers of Tasmanian people currently employed, this being due to (shh, speak softer or you will expose our electioneering plot) further cuts in Tasmania’s Public Health and Human Services as well as in this State’s Public Education System.

    Tonights Reachtel robot telephone poll was asking, just how satisfied are (those persons contacted by Reachtel via their anonymous phone call) these phone-call recipients, regarding the governance of this State by Will Hodgman’s Liberal leadership?

    Well, I just had to admit to the truth didn’t I, so I hit the numeral 2 button, which was to answer in the negative as I had thought the Liberals had all lit off (Even Eric the ? from our State seeking greener pastures over on yonder mainland.

    Perhaps Jack you might try for a license to drive one of those hydraulic hissing and clunking diesel-exhaust-snorting “do it all” log harvesting machines.

  14. Ted Mead

    February 8, 2018 at 12:07 am

    #22 – So smacker Jack is back!

    Yep – we all missed yo like a hole in head over the holiday break.

    Can’t imagine what dribble you have install for us?

    Another dreary year of pro Forestry poison and rebuke I suspect.

    Well you know and I know It’s going to be just one year closer for the death knell of STT and native forest logging in Tas.

    Inch by inch we live in hope knowing oh too well that day is inevitable!

  15. Jack Lumber

    February 7, 2018 at 1:50 pm

    Good morning all and it’s nice to be back

    Well what a brouhaha in the nw and now Dover

    Note to self , never dial in , never sound surprised and never say you have the right . Just an observation

    As to the discussion above , mjf ,best of luck and keep going .as you are wasting your time .No argument has been solved by logic . When the underlying premise is not based logic but zeal

    It’s been a nice break from TT but fear not Ted , William , Russell and Hawkins , when you deliver a coherent argument I will either applaud or rebut

    So it might be a while

  16. Russell

    February 7, 2018 at 11:01 am

    Re #18
    Read the post #15 again and answer correctly please.

  17. William Boeder

    February 7, 2018 at 1:26 am

    #19. MjF, not quite so, my line of comment is based on pure fact.
    It seems that you prefer to ignore the disconformities that are smitten upon the Tasmanian people via the arguably corrupt native forest clear-fell logging that has since become an evil curse upon this State.
    Let me say this clear-fell logging mania of yours does you no favours.
    Actually, your style of comment is a fair comparison to the mindset of the criminally charged and convicted John Eugene Gay.
    It certainly is a given that the desecration of Tasmania’s Crown Land Forests that causes the death of many of Tasmania’s more becomingly endangered indigenous wildlife species, they all hunted from their once protected habitats and shortly thereafter do become deprived of their life.
    Perchance you have been lunching with the anti-the-Tasmanian-citizens Senator Eric, quite recently?
    Considering that he Eric is an advocate of the broad-scale slaughter and annihilation of our Crown Land native forests, a man that basks and is thrilled in his personal desires to support the ‘major shareholder’ of the predatory Ta Ann Berhad native timber consuming operation, “Mr Hamed Sepawi”, must surely be another person that you most likely deem to be a best friend.
    I often wonder how an overseas-owned non-taxed dubiously non-profitable logging predator doth never appear to be held to account for their false-empowering purposes to speed-feed the personal wealth of this already Tasmanian State enriched person (being the product of his ruinous pursuit through his often undisclosed affairs pertaining to his Tasmania business operation.)
    This same Hamed Sepawi is somehow permitted to continue his Ta Ann business operative predatory operations through and by Tasmania’s soft-organ Liberal party ministers.

  18. MjF

    February 6, 2018 at 7:01 pm

    &17;
    William the Unswayable

    Going breezily and thank you for enquiring

    You are forever the tease, are you not ?

  19. MjF

    February 6, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    # 15
    Improbable hypothesis.

    If true, we’d be witnessing a sharp decline in crow, sea gull, lyrebird, turbo chook and mutton bird populations.

    A thinking person knows this is not the case.

  20. William Boeder

    February 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm

    #11. MjF, how are you going with your 5% canopy per hectare of approved species Eucalyptus that qualifies the ground zero results for each logging coop grasped at by your mate Guy Barnett lurking about in today’s false-fake State government Liberal party.
    Surely you admire the zombie-smiling Liberal party minister while he shares your non-comprehendible lust for slaughtering Tasmania’s surviving yet declining Crown Land Native Forests, so often you appear to be speaking in some form of snake-tongued lingo that sees you decrying the logger loving Liberals.

    (Confusion over your loyalties to Tasmania do continue to batter and bemuse the sensible conservation-inclined and wildlife welfare caring portion of my mind.)
    Meanwhile, there is something baffling and quite unfathomable in your pro-logger comments.
    You appear to endear the severe abnegation of sensible attitude and purpose with you relying on your Liberal mate to mislead the Tasmanian people with his repetitive false and misleading claims (“good mate Guy”) as he blunders onward ranting about the sustainability of that which is known by many to be in steep decline.

    Yes, it is indeed strange how you hector your Liberal party mate, after all, it is he that supports your same mindset relating to the 90 plus percent of trees clear-felled then non-arbitrarily allocated to Tasmania’s wood-chip scavengers as well as providing for the “no value to Tasmania” Ta Ann Tasmania predatory and certainly dubious log-supply contrived agreement.
    Fancy your acceptance to that which is currently being stolen via the aegis of the constantly altering ill-purposed legislative statute banal disconformities.
    All for now MjF, other than good luck with your new snake-oil medication in your wanting to restore your once upon a time clear 20 x 20 vision.

  21. john hayward

    February 6, 2018 at 1:46 pm

    Thank you, #14, MjF, but your fave proverb appears contaminated with atrazine, 1080, and various other pesticides, perhaps explaining the precipitous drop in Tasmanian bird numbers over the past three decades.

    John Hayward

  22. Russell

    February 6, 2018 at 11:35 am

    Martin Fitch, still with his head buried deeply in the forest industry’s backside.

    Please tell us why you still support an industry and company (FT, STT – same pig different lipstick) which has lost over $640,000.00 every single week for the past 30 years?

  23. MjF

    February 6, 2018 at 10:51 am

    &12;
    Please absorb and reflect on my fave proverb john – “A listed bird in the hand is worth two in the magnificently regrowing and still biodiverse bush” .

    How apt don’t you think ?

    $13
    Difficult to say bobby. When I see such a person in the circumstances you describe I’ll get back to you with a response.

    What do you mean by ‘aroused’ exactly ?

  24. Robert Middleton

    February 6, 2018 at 5:01 am

    MJF – what kind of man defends the sadistic butchery… the spiteful, barbaric rapine… the butchery and molestation of life? Does it feel good? Get you aroused?

  25. john hayward

    February 5, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    MjF, rather than suffer the irritating uncertainties of admittedly vestigial democratic processes in Tas, why don’t you shift to more convivial legal climes in Turkey, Myanmar, or Russia?

    John Hayward

  26. MJF

    February 5, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    $4

    Good afternoon William the Overloaded

    You touch on a subject of verily significance re the Mr Trumble and his arms manufacturing speculation yet you happily waste valuable breath, time and energies demonising the prospect of skittling a few spars here and there ?

    Context please sir.

    Your last statement indicates another wasted year of commenting from you coming up. Yes another year of wholesale tree murdering in progress but still the tourists flock here, their appetite for whatever it is they come for, apparently unsatiated.

    Is it those special Federal pokies they just can’t get enough of ?

    or perhaps VDL’s last frontier (the wild west coast) and those remarkable hardyheads that dwell there which captivates their interest ?

    Kind of contradicts your version of events one might say.

    regards

    M

  27. Ted Mead

    February 5, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    #9 – Yep a $13 million gift to get things started!

    As for the $30 mil loan, everybody knows the taxpayer won’t see that again.

    All it takes in this state to rort the taxpayer is to come up with a scheme or proposal that involves cutting down trees, and then the blank cheques seem to mysteriously pop up, and get cashed quickly before the pipe dreams disappear into the unknown!

  28. MjF

    February 5, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    #7
    A new mill yes, but at considerable govt largesse with a grant and a maaaates loan thrown in as inducement while buying forico wood as reported ????

    Where was the ministers press release ? what a dufus

    Oh well, whatever it takes, Hopefully will open up to other private sales as well if it gets cracking. One thing for sure, will keep price pressure on export log as competition which is a good thing.

    The plantation wood getting about never ceases to amaze me. given all the MIS plantations were complete failures according to many.

    As I’ve said before, must be just virtual reality wood.

    The Libs failed miserably in not working on and revamping the workplace protection laws from the first day they failed. A lost opportunity IMV.

  29. Ted Mead

    February 5, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    Yep – the Liberals are limp and impotent now!

    They had to let the protesters go, free of charges, because there is nothing regarding trespass and obstruction to charge them with these days.

    It looks like it’s going to be a field day out there for protesters coming up to March 3

    The libs can’t create any anti-obstruction laws whilst they are in caretaker government, and they won’t be able to impose charges on anyone retrospectively I suspect.

    Most of the wood you mention getting about is plantation sourced.

    The recently announced timber processing mill to be constructed at Burnie shows where the industry is moving, and that’s out of native forests.

    It won’t stop overnight, but all investment in native forest logging is looking particularly undesirable.

    It will be only a matter of another government term or two before all subsidies are pulled out of native forest logging, not to mention the dissolving of mismanagement such as STT.

    Preservation of HCV forests will prevail, the only question remains of how much of the remaining unprotected forests will be standing.

  30. MjF

    February 5, 2018 at 3:47 pm

    Happy New Year ted.

    Have you noticed how much wood is on the move this year so far ? Just astonishing mate.

    The pulpwood heap looks like pretty normal, low end material to me. Nicely observed. Hence the term residues.

    My #4 clearly states carting pulpwood to Burnie would be break even so no, I’m not claiming that activity as profitable and didn’t.

    FYI, subsidy schemes for STT log transport no longer exist.

    I expect the better quality logs have been carted prior to invasion by Webbers pawns. Prompt removal of sawlog material is the norm during summer months i.e. to avoid drying/cracking

    Smiley as a one time miller should be familiar with this problem.

    Any other observations ?

    I agree re Liberal limpness. Where are the revised and re-legislated new workplace protection laws still urgently required I ask ?

  31. Ted Mead

    February 5, 2018 at 12:11 pm

    # 4 – There is no profit from this coupe or any other coupe mismanaged by STT – Approximately $40 per tonne is lost to the taxpayer on a state-wide basis when native forest is logged.

    Take a closer look at the pile of logs around the machinery there. Split and warped logs, and those that aren’t are still in the same pile – which means it’s all wood chip. These are probably trucked way way back to Burnie under some residue subsidy scheme. Surely you can’t claim that is profitable.

    There has probably been the odd truck load sent off to TAT or Brittons but as George #3 has pointed out its looks like low quality timber.

    What’s happened to your enforcing Liberal government? They’ve gone limp. You should expect to see more of these protest actions reoccurring soon before they are ousted on March 3.

  32. MjF

    February 5, 2018 at 11:42 am

    Let me see george,

    No, maybe and yes.

    I expect the proximity to Smithton mills should offset the break even of carting pulplogs to Burnie for processing/sale given the likely input costs but with perhaps reduced roading costs normally associated with a dry weather operation.

    TAT logs would generate a profit from this coupe

    All the more reason not to have tiresome delays.

    Hope that helps.

  33. William Boeder

    February 5, 2018 at 2:51 am

    #2. MjF, I see that we both made it into the new year of 2018, though the degradation of Tasmania’s Crown Land Forests still sees you chuckling and not caring a damn about the continuing idiocy inspired destruction of more and more Tasmanian Native Forests to the benefit of unconscionable native forest wood-chippers and the other scavenging predatory institution of Ta Ann Tasmania.
    It is an act of treachery that Tasmania’s Liberal State government engage in providing their blind approval to the uncaring carnage of Tasmania’s remaining native forests carried out at the behest of Guy Barnett’s foolery and truly non-sustainable endeavors by his evil-boding creation of Sustainable Timbers Tasmania. (STT.)

    Over on the mainland chunk of Australia, we read about Turnbull and his fellow Liberals (better identified as a voracious pack of highly remunerated and privileged academic ministerial cut-throats) are braying how clever it will be if Australia engages in a huge increase in the manufacture and export of weapons of war and large-scale death and destruction.

    Surely the people of not just Tasmania, but across the entire of mainland Australia, have observed that this USA inspired and encouraged ramped-up industry (that has as its KPI’s the design and imprimatur to manufacture then sell as an export approved industry their wherewithal) to kill every level of whatever international society by their own taxpayer-funded cheque-book-toting (likely the equivalent of the Australian Liberal party) government administration.
    The 2 State Liberal party’s along with the Federal Liberals are indeed a resource destroying pox upon Australia, even their Tasmanian mob remain up to their neck in the evil endeavor to destroy the uniqueness of our Tasmanian State.

    How many years is it now MjF, that you have spent endorsing the relentless State government desire to destroy (the much-loved by Tasmania’s people and our touring visitors) the unique environment of Tasmania’s rarefied forested wildernesses?

  34. George Smiley

    February 5, 2018 at 1:22 am

    You seem to know MJ. So is this timber and soil as barrel-bottom crappy as it looks? Then maybe it’s more about face-saving and politics than economics. Will the preponderance of woodchips and negligible sawlogs actually cover costs and the negative peeler return we pay to Ta An or is it the business-as-usual picture of forestry in Tasmania?

  35. MjF

    February 4, 2018 at 10:37 pm

    What are these dunderhead liberals doing?

    Revised and effective workplace protection laws required here, now, more so than ever.

    Until then just another feeding frenzy of open season hysteria and site invasions from Webber & Co. to bore us with.

    Hodgeman – get yr shit together, forget caretaker mode and do something useful.

    Destruction ? Phooey

    Minor modification of the landscape is my call.

    Rainforest blah blah, Mixed forest Webber actually means but who likes the sound of that ? We all know the definition that actually matters though don’t we ??

    Saints preserve us.

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