Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Cartoons

TWO Martyn Turners on Trump … and Jerusalem …

*Cartoons: Martyn Turner, used with permission: https://www.facebook.com/martynturnercartoons/ . http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/martyn-turner

Cartoons*: Martyn Turner, used with permission

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Author Credits: [show_post_categories parent="no" parentcategory="writers" show = "category" hyperlink="yes"]
46 Comments

46 Comments

  1. Lynne Newington

    December 19, 2017 at 9:53 am

    I appear to be boxed in on all fronts don’t I? On the surface that is.

    The celebration of Hanukkah this year is complimemted by the congressional decision to at last officially recognise Jerusalem as capital of Israel, the Vatican burning within with no more political football playing one against the other giving peace a chance.
    https://www.vox.com/2017/12/6/16742640/trump-jerusalem-israel-speech-full-text

    Mazel Tov!

  2. Russell

    December 18, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    Re #40
    It’s a matter of factual truth Lynne, and you’re displaying and quoting none of that.

    Alternative facts are NOT facts, they are lies.

  3. Simon Warriner

    December 18, 2017 at 12:53 am

    Who is the puppet, and whose arm is up it’s butt?

    http://www.bollyn.com/why-do-isis-videos-come-from-israeli-intelligence/

    When narcissists are involved, nothing, absolutely nothing, is what it seems at the first, second and often third inspection.

    The question that needs answering in response to the revelations made on the above site is “who are the ISIS dupes who conduct attacks in Western nations really being directed by?”

  4. Lynne Newington

    December 17, 2017 at 8:32 am

    “Perhaps just watch him taken down for his distortion and propaganda”…..

    No thanks, he’s a big boy and can deal with it.

  5. Jack

    December 17, 2017 at 3:10 am

    #40, #41 Lynne … I don’t think it has much to do with whether people agree or not. It’s about the quality of information. A balanced discussion is not one that gives equal time to discredited sources to dismiss credible evidence. For instance, no one bothers to give neoNazis equal air time when discussing race relations. Nor is citing claims from a websites own pages the ‘we are not biased’ of any value in establishing if the claims of bias are justified. If a website for Scientology claimed that all its critics were all deranged would that convince you?

    There is just so much evidence of the Middle East Forum being a creation of the Zionist lobby that carries extreme right wing propaganda that it is not something that anyone has to work hard to prove. As for Mr Pipes – the web is full of his rants where he present only one half of the story and never anything of the historical context that is now common knowledge. What people omit to mention is the true meat of propaganda and Mr Pipes is great at doing that – a master.

    Perhaps just watch him taken down for his distortion and propaganda …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR2ZUQg_StU

  6. Lynne Newington

    December 16, 2017 at 7:06 pm

    … now lets look at Mr Pipes, shall we? He has a page all to himself on ‘Wikispooks’: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Daniel_Pipes….

    http://www.meforum.org/6856/top-10-falsehoods-and-facts-about-middle-east-forum

    I won’t paraphrase either. Enough said.

  7. Lynne Newington

    December 16, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    I don’t expect everyone to agree and your prerogative not too.
    Middle East Forum is just one of many that I permit access into my living room, and at the end of the day the dots join up that’s what counts.
    Daniel Pipes?
    The door’s always open there …

  8. Jack

    December 16, 2017 at 3:58 pm

    #38 … Lynne –

    Just so you might consider where you get your information from (such as the history of the Palestinian Campaign in WWI) you might care to check the sources you use. For instance you link to the article called: ‘Long History of Hypocrisy about Jerusalem’

    Let’s look at the independence of this source. A dead giveaway is in the top LHS of the website. It says: “Middle East Forum: Promoting American Interests”

    Think about that, then click on the “about” hotlink. That says: “The Middle East Forum promotes American interests in the Middle East and protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats.”

    Interesting, hey? Imagine that! America is threatened by the Middle East.

    So take a look at what others say about the MEF:

    “The Middle East Forum (MEF) is a controversial Philadelphia-based policy institute founded by Daniel Pipes that employs extremist rhetoric regarding Islam and attacks academics who disagree with its militaristic views on Israeli security and Middle East politics. MEF promotes its agenda through a number of programs, including Campus Watch, Islamist Watch, and the quasi-academic Middle East Quarterly journal.”

    Now lets look at Mr Pipes, shall we? He has a page all to himself on ‘Wikispooks’: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Daniel_Pipes

    I won’t paraphrase. Enough said.

    If you don’t like that site you can easily go to countless other sources in order to reveal the same thing. MEF is Zionist propaganda that rises to a level of distortion and downright propaganda that would make Joe Goebbels blush.

    So I’m wondering Lynne – is this where you read your history lessons about Israel’s role in the battle at Beersheba? More to the point, why would you bother?

  9. Lynne Newington

    December 15, 2017 at 8:45 am

    15.Wow, Simon
    Have you forgotten Obama already?

    So, Trump does an idiotic thing and wow, Israel is really bad and wants to take over the world.
    Posted by Wining Pom on 09/12/17 at 11:27 PM

    An update
    Long History of Hypocrisy about Jerusalem

    http://www.meforum.org/7099/long-history-of-hypocrisy-about-jerusalem

  10. Jack

    December 13, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    #29 Leonard …

    [i]”The children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are not likely to go meekly into another dark night, not even if Oz progressivist pollies, academics, media cheer squads and assorted celebs & arty-fartyistas wish it so.”[/i]

    I’m not sure that anyone has ever requested they go ‘meekly into the night’. . but does ‘not going meekly into the night’ justify any excess if it is referenced back to the Holocaust as a ‘get out of jail free’ card?

    If so, when do the Soviet POWs (3 million) and ethnic Poles (2 million) killed during the Holocaust get a mention? What about the 11 million Russian soldiers and perhaps 20 million civilians who died at the hands of the Nazis during WWII? Do the gypsies get only one sixth of the consideration of the Jews because they racked up only 500,000 victims?

    Hence are gypsies allowed to be 1/6th as immoral as a rouge sate?

    Is that how the calculus of victimhood works? We give out credit to people now based upon the suffering inflicted upon their relatives and expect unrelated peoples to foot the bill and everyone else to keep quiet?

    How come a poor Russian kid of a slaughtered family is not a ‘survivor’ but rich Jewish kid living in New York needs therapy to save them from their family memory? Is that because it was so much worse to die in a concentration camp than be enslaved, strung up and starved to death in your own village and have your parent shot in front of you?

    Guess what, the Russians and other peoples of Europe did not go meekly into the night either. They died in the millions to liberate people – and fulfilled the Zionist dream in the process. Now days the Zionist prefer to forget that bit. They also forget that the west went about establishing human rights, democracy and a civil society. They omit the bit about owing the survival of European Jewry to the horrible Goy who liberated them.

    Nowadays those same people have no right to criticise Israel. Really? Is that what you truly believe?

    If so, by the look of it we should give the Russians quite a few free kicks and look the other way whenever they knock the crap out of peoples they don’t like – which they actually do relatively rarely in comparison. I mean, just let a civilian airliner go if they shoot it from the sky. After all, the Russians earned it in WW2.

    Dragging the Holocaust into Zionist politics is wearing thin and is actually disgusting for those whose family was decimated in ‘non-holocaust’ and hence tangential slaughter. Only the Holocaust has copyright and political bandwagon, the other 40 million don’t rate. Their relatives have to shut up and listen to the endless carping from one minority that turned it into a political industry.

    When does Israel begin to take responsibility for its actions in the here and now rather than looking for excuses 70 years and 3,000 years ago? And when should my relative be given a free ticket too on the basis of their suffering, or even me? Can I go around beating the crap out of Germans as payback and then just show the police my family vendetta score book and say ‘hey, I’m not going meekly into the night, you know copper!’

    And isn’t this the same backward looking score keeping that is the very essence of Middle Eastern religions and politics where the ignorant followers of Abraham’s imaginary man in the sky keep an eye on the scoreboard and keep dragging us back to the past, distorting it to make their sins seem forgivable?

  11. Leonard Colquhoun

    December 13, 2017 at 3:59 pm

    And, to continue the point made in Comment #38 “the sufferings of the indigenous … by the white fella [of whatever gender among the following: L, G, B, T, Q, T, I, XX, YY (plus those in https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUld9nkWIAESOdh.png)] who used” bad living conditions in remote aboriginal communities to advance their academic careers, to keep spouting ideological socio-economic rubbish, and to thereby inflict on their victims what Einstein called “insanity”. (Same stupidity is still happening in our schoolrooms.)

    Now we’ve got Greens adding their bit by vetoing chances for progress for some communities by prioritising some goddam purple-arsed quadruped over indigenous human bipeds.

  12. Lynne Newington

    December 13, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    For a moment John, I thought you were going quote something from Book of Revelation …

  13. Lynne Newington

    December 13, 2017 at 2:43 pm

    “with due respect to our indigenous who haven’t gone through early forced conversions whether it be to Christianity or Catholicism”

    It didn’t come out as I meant, so thank you for picking me up on it. I know only too well the sufferings of the indigenous, whether through forced conversions or abuse, not only by religious institutions but the white fella who used the women for there own sexual gratification.

    My mother adopted two……..

  14. John Wade

    December 13, 2017 at 10:43 am

    Lynne, have you ever used the word “WHY” when recalling the transgressions dished out by other idiots to the ever-suffering peoples of the Middle East tribes that came by way of Abraham?
    Have you ever asked why one tribe in particular bears aggravation from a range of other communities?

    Abraham was claimed earliest by Jews, as tenaciously by Christians, belatedly by Moslems. Each religion claims priority and, largely because of their different faiths, members of all three are locked in a blood-stained struggle that rages intermittently over the lands he crossed.

    This link answers a lot of myths: https://www.britannica.com/place/Canaan-historical-region-Middle-East

    And there my story ends. I have no time for religious nonsense.

    [i]“Then, suddenly, my consciousness was lighted up from within and I saw in a vivid way how the whole universe was made up of particles of material which, no matter how dull and lifeless they might seem, were nevertheless filled with this intense and vital beauty.”
    — Aldous Huxley[/i]

  15. Russell

    December 13, 2017 at 10:37 am

    Re #28
    “with due respect to our indigenous who haven’t gone through early forced conversions whether it be to Christianity or Catholicism”

    Are you kidding me???!!! You really “don’t care much for facts anymore” do you? Christian missionaries were all over Australia trying to convert Indigenous Australians before most settlers got there.

    Jesus! you really ought to stick with facts instead of the make-believe, Lynne.

    “The Holy See”! Just another concoction from Paul/Saul. Don’t confuse yourself with Christians and Jews, they don’t recognise each other as legitimate and never can, otherwise their false beliefs will fall apart.

    Don’t mention any of the other ‘holocausts’ either (mostly at the hands of the USA), that would have the effect to diminish your private inward looking views.

  16. Lynne Newington

    December 12, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    “The children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are not likely to go meekly into another dark night”.
    Absolutely and why should they.
    Not a decade after the Holocaust and the safe passage of Nazi criminals to Latin America though Vatican ratlines, Nostra Aetate 1965..[Never again] was released by the Holy See, ten years later the Jews once again were singled out tortured and murdered during the 1976 Argentine dictatorship supported by Rome……

    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/mar/24/guardianweekly.guardianweekly1

  17. Simon Warriner

    December 12, 2017 at 9:19 pm

    Leonard, welcome back.

    Israel was founded on terrorism, by terrorists. Nasty, vicious Jewish terrorists. Irgum, the Stern Gang. Terrorism is in its DNA. Has been since the old testament actually.

    SO tell us Leonard, how is the terrorism that founded Israel not working?

  18. Leonard Colquhoun

    December 12, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    Comment #4 has got this right: “The history of [modern] Israel is an object lesson in the effectiveness of terrorism”, but not in the way probably meant.

    Terrorism has a long history of failing to achieve its goals – reunification of the island of Ireland, a post-WWII communist guerrilla campaign in Malay^, a Basque independent homeland, independence (or unification with Italy) for Corsica, the Baader-Meinhoff and similar 1970s terrorist gangs in 1970s-80s Europe, militia movements in the US, and others have all failed.

    In the Middle East, Muslim Brotherhood terrorism in Egypt has failed. Any terrorist campaign against the theocracy in Iran would fail.

    In Israel: spectacular failure, from airliner hijackings in the 1970s to urban intifadas.

    Such campaigns succeed if the authorities just go away / go home as did the British in mandated Palestine, in Aden and in Cyprus where there was no national interest reason to duke it out.

    ^ the Malayan Emergency involved an ethnic minority, the Malayan Chinese, trying by force to impose a Marxist regime on the British territories on the peninsula which had a 65% Malay / Muslim majority – someone in the Comintern failed Malayan Peninsula Demographics 101. (Rather similar to how the US horribly failed the basics of Vietnamese history.)

    The children and grandchildren of the Holocaust are not likely to go meekly into another dark night, not even if Oz progressivist pollies, academics, media cheer squads and assorted celebs & arty-fartyistas wish it so.

  19. Lynne Newington

    December 12, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    It’s all about legitimacy .. and sometimes one has to go the long way around when presenting history. People don’t care much for facts anymore, it’s just what’s easiest, as in whitewashing of the past [even Pope Francis has come up smelling like a rose despite his early days as Jorge Mario Bergoglio].
    And I’m not into addiction or bone pointing etc. with due respect to our indigenous who haven’t gone through early forced conversions whether it be to Christianity or Catholicism, noting you appear to be familiar with some aspect.

    By the way; you wouldn’t be so vain as to discard Geoffrey Robinson, would you?

    Read up on the claims and demands the Holy See places on Israel .. and you will see why they certainly aren’t happy with this latest decision, the first introduction being ..

    [i]If I forget you Jerusalem, may my right hand wither; may my tongue remain remain stuck to my palate if I do not keep you in my mind, if I do not count Jerusalem the greatest of my joys .. [/i]
    http://bibliotecanonica.net/docsad/btcadg.pdf

  20. Russell

    December 12, 2017 at 3:10 pm

    Dear Editor, the New Testament IS a pack of proved lies, so please don’t edit my opinion with the likes of “in my view”.

    Re #21
    Here’s a little something from Paul Kelly to satiate your desire for all things 7 and even a couple of little quotes from the book of lies which tie in the god-fearing Trumped up one and even the criminally war-mongering insane born-again George W Bush.

    “My name is John Johanna, I am misunderstood
    Lately I have been accused of grievous murder in cold blood
    My mission is most righteous, my cause is true and just
    The wicked need chastisement, you know it’s either them or us

    God told me to
    I did what I had to do
    God told me to

    All around me empty chatter, the old men wring their hands,
    Meanwhile in broad daylight Satan gathers his unholy bands
    The mighty strength of angels carries me on my seeking flight
    My anger is a hammer – you know not its power or the hour it strikes!

    God told me to
    I answer not to them or you
    God told me to

    Seven golden candles flaming bring forth the Son of Man
    In his mouth a two-edged sword, seven stars shining in his right hand
    The beast has eyes before him, the beast has eyes behind
    Those not with me are against me, they’re surely gonna feel my holy fire!

    God told me to
    To thine own self be true
    God told me to

    God told me to
    I’m just doing what I have to do
    God told me to”

    Note: from New Testament Revelation 1 the reference to the 7 golden candles (the Menora), 7 stars shining in his right hand and Chapter 13’s reference to the 7-headed beast having eyes looking everywhere.

    And then there’s the other striking maniacal parallel of Jesus in Matthew 12 with the USA’s formation of the ‘coalition of the (too) willing’ in 2003 when nutcase GW Bush said “You’re with us, or you’re against us.”

    Blessed are the Cheese Makers!

  21. Russell

    December 12, 2017 at 10:05 am

    Re #7 & #8
    Nice try, LOL. An Israel propaganda site and one from the Vatican. Hardly “proof”.

    You’re a real religion jumper, bouncing back and forth from the historical (not religious) writings of the Old Testament to the New Testament (book of Paul/Saul’s fairy tales and lies, in my view).

    No wonder you’re so confused by reality.

    Re #15
    Not much difference between the colonial Poms and the Israelis is there?

    “The Knesset has 120 members and 18 of them are Palestinian.”

    I suppose that’s a little better than the Indigenous/non-Indigenous Parliamentary ratio, but it’s still just deliberate window dressing and pointless when it comes to any sort of vote or human rights issues.

    Re #21
    Looks like you have a silly addiction for anything with number 7 in it as well!

  22. Lynne Newington

    December 11, 2017 at 8:47 am

    I’m supporting legitimacy … and it’s been a rare commodity from long before I was born. If inclined to for a moment, here’s good example …

    Lynne Newington says:

    December 8, 2017 at 8:28 am

    Listening to his speech directly on BBC Wednesday early AM, what stood out to me …
    “Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like every other sovereign nation to determine its own capital”…

    Geoffrey Robinson QC sometime ago queried the statehood test of the Vatican that certainly didn’t match up to the State of Israel let alone any other country, with no real territory to defend, no stable population and national community other than Catholic officials and diplomats [serving the spiritual matters of the church] celibate religious with no status to propagating citizens, no economic or industrial interests, Swiss Guards but no strategic defence to speak of …

    *Many text book writers compare it to another trumped up entity … the ‘Sovereign Military Order of St John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta, which has had inter-state relations since the beginning of the crusades.

    We’ll have to wait now and see what noise comes from that part of the world, [apart from the expected issues of Holy Sites].

  23. Jack

    December 11, 2017 at 1:36 am

    #23 Lynne …

    I suppose it is the historical embellishment that has me worried. That is known as lies to others.

    Peoples ‘A’ destroying the temple of peoples ‘B’ 2,000 years ago does not justify the dispossession of peoples ‘C’ today. Israel is desperate to prove legitimacy with 2-3,000 year old fairy tales that find a sympathetic ear with lots of Christian fundamentalists.

    But isn’t your main question to ask what Jesus would have made of dropping white phosphorus on Palestinians and pushing them into a concentration camp? (Unless I have mistaken your religion).

    Because that’s what I don’t get about people who profess to be Christian and support Israel. You are supporting an ongoing human rights travesty in the name of Old Testament prophecy while ignoring the charity and concern for suffering right now that defines the very essence of Christianity. For 30 pieces of silver Israel buys you a seat at the Beersheba memorial for a sacrifice that has nothing to do with them and you ignore the original inhabitants of that land and the suffering it promotes.

    Jesus Lynne, what would Jesus say about that?

  24. Lynne Newington

    December 10, 2017 at 9:01 pm

    Lynne … Again, I’m not following you. You seem to have shifted from revising history about the Australian involvement in the Palestine campaign of WWI to religious mythology and iconography and what the man in the sky said 2,000 years ago. Is this still the ‘common bond’ stuff which you are talking about?

    I did say on pondering Beersheba 1917… if you recall, without a definite response to you.

    It’s a little piece of history especially the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 AD, the same location as Jerusalem now the official capital of Israel today in 2017.

    All relevant with a little historical embellishment …

  25. Jack

    December 10, 2017 at 12:46 pm

    #21 Lynne … Again, I’m not following you. You seem to have shifted from revising history about the Australian involvement in the Palestine campaign of WWI to religious mythology and iconography and what the man in the sky said 2,000 years ago. Is this still the ‘common bond’ stuff which you are talking about?

    Sorry to be blunt, but I spend no time pondering the politics of the Battle of Hastings in 1,066 and even less time bemoaning the stealing of antiques in 70 AD. I suggest you write to the Pope and ask him to search the basement of The Vatican. He might have it stashed away. Can’t hurt to ask, can it?

    If you have any luck let me know. As my family were Anglo-Saxons perhaps I might have a crack at claiming half of SE England, and if I can get all the stuff those Normans took it should be worth a quid or two by now. I’ll have a chat to my man in the sky and see if he has any thoughts on the matter.

  26. Lynne Newington

    December 9, 2017 at 9:53 pm

    Giving some thought to Beersheba … 1917

    A state of their own in process … 1947

    https://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm

    Awarded Jerusalem capital to their state…… 2017

    If anyone notices the Menorah in the top left hand corner, it’s a replica of the one depicted on the Arch of Titus, one of the many spoils brought back to Rome when they robbed and destroyed the temple in Jerusalem 70 AD believing they been annihilated, wiped off the face of the earth, as it was known then, forever.
    Since 1948 it’s been the emblem of the state.

    We are led to believe God never did say it would be easy.

  27. Jack

    December 9, 2017 at 5:38 pm

    #18 Lynne … I’m struggling to follow the logic here.

    Beersheba was a battle in WWI that happened well before Israel was even a serious twinkle in the eye of the Zionist movement. Amusingly, it happened in the so called ‘Palestine’ campaign. Have you forgotten Palestine – the place that Zionists tell us was not occupied by Palestinians? Does ‘terra nullius’ ring a few bells?

    So together with the British we fought a battle against the Ottoman Turks and Germans in Palestine in 1917 and now have a ‘common bond’ with Israel. The Balfour Declaration was not even produced until 1926 and Israel was not a state until 1948.

    Pretty cute that Israel steals the land upon which and Australian battle with the Turks/Germans took place and you now think that we have a special relationship with the people who evicted the original inhabitants. And that means that we should allow duel Israeli Australians to train in the military of a foreign country now occupying Palestine illegally against UN resolutions?

    It might make sense to you, but how? I’m perplexed.

    I’m in awe of the historical revisionism required to turn Beersheba into something to do with Israel! But I should not be surprised. If if is not religious mumbo-jumbo and the celestial real estate agent providing all sort of rights to the Zionists (who were non-religious) and the Baptist nutbags trying to hurry the apocalypse along, it is the usual re-write of the history books.

    This is the sort of stuff that any thinking person should reject as it causes nothing but suffering. We do not want people embroiling Australia in Middle Eastern insanity and we certainly don’t want them training with a foreign military while being Australian citizens.

    Why not let every duel Chinese-Australian citizen pop home for a couple of years of military training? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    Turkey is an example of a special bond with Australia. Greece too. Even Italy. They are not rouge states intent on re-writing history and lobbying our jelly-backed government to turn a blind eye.

    Israel is an example of a bond driven by a massive propaganda campaign that makes the Chinese look shy. In fact there are many similarities between the soft power the Chinese are using and that which has been successfully progressed by Israel. That any Australian can believe that Beersheba is linked to Israel is proof of that.

  28. Wining Pom

    December 9, 2017 at 2:25 pm

    Yes, there are idiots in Israel as I noted. And that article quotes that it ‘even shocked the police’ so the order of the country is on the right track I assume it’s saying. But then, The Insider. Oh dear. I prefer commentators with a lack of bias. And a really good example of that is George Orwell.

    ‘Reed’s work was the subject of an article by George Orwell. He warned that Reed had an “easy journalistic style” and was a “persuasive writer”. However, he noted that he was clearly wrong when he dismissed claims of Nazi persecution of German Jews, and even the pogroms, as just “propaganda.” Orwell compared Reed’s views with Oswald Mosley and summed-up Reed’s work as: “down with the Reds and – above all – down with the Jews.” ‘

    And also I’m a bit shocked that it’s Israel’s fault that the US police are rather too handy with their guns.

    Irgun! It’s good to see that you’ve read up on history. It was a terrorist organisation that was trying ti establish Israel and when it was established, it was out of business. Unless of course it’s still there helping the Jews take over the world.

  29. Lynne Newington

    December 9, 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Have you forgotten Beersheba already?
    Israel didn’t after all those decades ago….they even funded indgenous descendents to be part of the celebrations..

    They never forgot William Cooper either……All part of the process of bonding between to two.

    “You just can’t have too much of this ‘common bond’ sort of thing now, can you?”

    No you can’t in my opinion…..for when the chips are down that’s where it counts.

  30. Jack

    December 9, 2017 at 1:01 pm

    #14 … Well I suppose we should enjoy the “common bond” of allowing Australian citizens of all the Arab and Middle East states to return and do military training for foreign nations as well. You just can’t have too much of this ‘common bond’ sort of thing now, can you?

  31. Simon Warriner

    December 9, 2017 at 11:00 am

    re #14, #15. Thanks for your informative response.

    Lynne, you laud the joint citizens who do their military service in Israel and cite the benefits we get from their approach to matters military. Take a good hard look at what has happened to the American Police Forces and their approach to those they once employed to “Protect and Serve” since they began to involve Israel in the training of their officers. Becoming renowned for shooting unarmed women in their pyjamas is certainly not what we want. And knowing how to shoot fish in a barrel is hardly something we need to be taught. The last time the Israeli military came up against real soldiers they got their arses handed to them and had to negotiate for peace. Remember when they tried to invade Lebanon? Hezbollah stopped them in their tracks and then pushed them well back inside Israel. They lost. Very good at slaughtering unarmed civilians and bombing women and children but real soldiers? Not so much.

    The only time Reed mentions the Protocols in Controversy of Zion is when he says that he does not know whether they are a forgery or not, but that if one looks at the targets they set out a number of them have been achieved or are objectives held by the Israeli state. He goes on to make the list.

    Wining Pom … I will address just this one part of your comment for brevity. Poisoning wells and killing people around camp fires……..

    http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=964
    https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=List of Irgun attacks

    I am no fan of how the aborigines were treated, are still treated or will be treated into the future under current policy. And 18 out of 120 is, to paraphrase a quote by Gary Strand, 6.66666667 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what is for lunch and it might be democratic but is it delivering any justice to the Palestinians? And yes, that is what you get if you divide 18 into 120.

    As for working on that issue, I have spent far more time that has been good for my financial health or my relationships working on a workable plan to improve the quality of our system of government. If I am correct and it gets adopted to the point where it makes a difference then I certainly see that the lot of the Aborigines could improve as an indirect result. Not by my direct action, I grant you, but because something I suggest will result in better decision making at a government policy level. God knows the decisions in that area of policy could improve, and from a very low base.

  32. Wining Pom

    December 9, 2017 at 1:27 am

    Wow, Simon, still at it. It’s gob-smacking how someone can be so focused on bullshit.
    To quote someone who got his inspiration from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which is recognised as fiction and then to use logic such as ‘American policy is dictated by Israeli interests.’

    Have you forgotten Obama already?

    So, Trump does an idiotic thing and wow, Israel is really bad and wants to take over the world.

    Yes there are idiots in Israel who believe in the sky fairy, but there’s a lot of those here too who voted against same-sex marriage.

    And if taking land is so bad, let’s compare areas. How much land did the Poms steal from Aboriginals compared to the few acres in the Middle East? And yes, the settlements in the West Bank are really stupid. Who poisoned water? Who went out at night to kill those around camp fires?

    We are so righteous here with more stains on our way of life than Israelis who have neighbours who deny their right to exist.

    If you really believe in fairness then get involved in trying to get this government to give the first Australians a better life.

    Turnbull’s rejection of a request for a voice is just as bad as anything the Palestinians have to suffer.

    And a little thought. The Knesset has 120 members and 18 of them are Palestinian.

  33. Lynne Newington

    December 9, 2017 at 12:43 am

    Can you please tell me why joint Israeli-Australian citizens are allowed to do their military service with Israel?

    Because we need their expertise and share a common bond, and after centuries of fighting for their own survival, who better?

    Besides it’s not only Australia which benefits from their knowledge across the spectrum.

    https://www.gov.il/en/Departments/publications/reports/hls_technology

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/launching-new-chapter-australia-israel-relations/

  34. Lynne Newington

    December 9, 2017 at 12:21 am

    “By the same token my father was a member of the Masonic Lodge and a more community minded, charitable person would be hard to find.”

    Too much, as you said, for a potted history I’m afraid … for now let’s just agree on the Masons …

    I too found them wonderful and so did the seventy odd children of all ages where I was reared. I supported an Anglican couple with the imminent death of the husband denied his last blessing if he didn’t renounce his connections I thought deplorable …

    The Douglas Reed Controversy of Zion you hold to tells me there is nothing to be gained in further discussion on the subject and attract further unfair criticism.

  35. Simon Warriner

    December 8, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    continued

    I have no doubt that some people who identify as Jews are very nice individuals. They are not all Zionists, and some hold a position that opposes the existence of the state of Israel. My partner worked for two Jewish brothers in Sydney who were the best bosses she has ever had. We have a good friend who is Jewish. And that religion (they are not a “race”) has certainly produced some outstanding individuals, as has Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, and most other religions. I note that none of the other religions use that fact to push their own barrow. Interesting observation, that one.

    By the same token my father was a member of the Masonic Lodge and a more community minded, charitable person would be hard to find. Every member of his small local lodge was a fine example of humanity, and when my father died 8 years ago over 600 of his largely non Masonic community made the effort to turn out to farewell him. He never held any public office or formal position beyond a casual role as a reporter for the local paper. He was a farmer who retired to the local town and volunteered in the Information Centre, and was a stalwart of the rapidly shrinking local Anglican Church. He joined the masons for the fellowship it offered, and I can assure you his membership brought no material reward to our table. Any communal pecuniary advantage that lodge membership offered was turned to the quiet, unobtrusive delivery of charity to the aged. So, quite the opposite actually. Alongside that sits the corruption that existed in some institutions that was facilitated by membership of Masonic Lodges that we have all read about. The Catholic church has its well publicised issues, but its education system and those within it have served my son well, and the charitable service it provides locally is commendable. In its day it might have been up to the task, but I certainly do not see it as up to manipulating the Jews, Israel, or Zionism in the present day. The Jesuits, though, might be the means through which the Pharasitic cult manipulates Catholicism. You are correct, there is good and bad existing side by side in many human social structures. Why should the few nice Jews you know personally be the exception to the norm and render all Israel;s and Zionism’s sins irrelevant?

    It is a matter of being able to see through the marketing and propaganda to the reality. Modern public discourse discourages that sort of effort.

    I also know some decent Americans, but it does not prevent the American empire’s relationships with everyone else being bullying to the point of outright murder when it suits. Except it’s relationship with Israel. Funny, that.

    As for antisemitism, if the vast majority of Jews were actually Semites it might have a point, but most are not, they are ethnically Khazars. From Eastern Europe, as a result of their forebears conversion to Judaism in line with the edict of a long gone leader. The Palestinians, though, are Semitic. Funny, that. Not so funny is the theft of their land, their birthright, their liberty, their humanity, their health, their freedom, and everything else stolen from them on a daily basis by their Israeli jailers. Trump’s announcement of a policy decided by a Congress whose vetting by agents of foreign influence prior to election is a matter of long standing record (AIPAC) may well be the final straw laid on that camel’s back. I note that the blossoming Israeli/Saudi bromance is now faltering. Turkey is outraged so no more hiding its spy planes in Turkish airspace while it foments attacks on Iran, and Putin is the one and only world leader to smack Nutty yahoo on the butt and send him home empty handed, publicly. The Persians understand only to well from antiquity the cult and its machinations and will have none of it. The narcissist is running out of “friends” at a rapid rate, and we should all be very wary. After all, there is always the Samson option, and that is the ultimate narcissistic rage … “If I cannot win, everyone looses.”

  36. Simon Warriner

    December 8, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    Lynne, it may be difficult to explain at this distance but one of the major problems with this subject is that there is conflation of Jews, Judaism, Zionism in the public discourse and within those 3 categories there is a range of positions and of culpability for the nastiness that has been perpetrated. It is informative to watch the public conversations in the media and see how that conflation is encouraged and manipulated. It serves to protect those responsible from the nasty reactions of the many victims.

    In my twenties I was quite the admirer of Israel and their efforts to track down the Nazis. Time and a wider reading of history have slowly altered my perspective to the point where I can clearly see the manipulation of public thought that has taken place. That manipulation is becoming more and more widely recognised, and at some point it will reach a critical mass, cease to be effective and then those responsible will be forced to deal with the consequences, as has happened repeatedly on a smaller scale in individual communities and nation states over the last two thousand or so years. Only this time round it will be a global event, by virtue of the extent of the reach of Zionist/Israeli influence. Why did Turnbull wear a Yamulka for Nutty yahoo’s visit, by the way? Fealty? Obsequious ingratiation? It was demeaning of Australian culture on our own ground. NY should have donned an Akubra.

    Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital against overwhelming global opposition might actually be the trigger event for this happening, by way of it revealing the extent to which American policy is dictated by Israeli interests. Perhaps that was Trump’s intent in doing it. Logical in a typically cryptic way, perhaps, or maybe he is just a nutter. I really do not know.

    I am all for taking people as I find them, but equally, when they are being entirely deceptive and they get caught out at it, then I will call them as I find them and not stoop to political correctness by pretending their nasty side does not exist.

    I have in the past recommended Douglas Reed’s book, The Controversy of Zion, as a good starting point to understanding the complexity of the subject. Some who comment here decry it as antisemitic garbage without bothering to read it, but it is well researched and referenced. Reed quotes at length the various Zionist actors involved in the establishment of Israel and he sources those quotes. It is their own words and actions that he uses to demonstrate what they were up to. It has never been published physically because when he wrote it the publishers were all warned off by – guess who?

    The way I figure it is that the Zionists are a continuation of the original pharasitic cult that has used the Jews as its stalking horse in exactly the same way as narcissists manipulate those closest to them. Judaism with its endless rules and rituals is the tool by which they do this. Let me be clear, in many ways the Jews are the victims here. The old testament details exquisitely the sociopathic and indeed psychopathic nature of the cult. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn has quite a bit to say about them in his last book. When you have dealt with a few narcissists you get to understand the tricks of the trade and see them for what they are when they are being used.

  37. Philip Lowe

    December 8, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    If only people,yes,those over multitudinous people,would stop complicating their lives with religion.I don’t mind you kidding yourself with imagined myth and imagination,but please try not to start World War Three in the process.Thanks and Blessings be upon you my children and all that bollocks.

  38. Jack

    December 8, 2017 at 6:57 pm

    #2 … Ok, what about ‘rouge’ state?

    That’s one that does not comply with UN resolutions, has an undeclared nuclear arsenal, uses white phosphorous on civilian populations, occupies territory illegally (see UN resolutions), lobbies for the USA to conduct wars in its region via a quasi-governmental structure (not unlike having an army of Sam Dastyaris in an organised lobby funded by a foreign country), steals Australian passports to run covert operations, runs an anti-democratic system that favours one religious group, offers a ‘right of return’ for people of one religious group but not another etc etc.

    Would you like me to go on? Probably not. I guess you will just cause me of being an antisemite. Good luck on that one given my background.

    Can you please tell me why joint Israeli-Australian citizens are allowed to do their military service with a rouge state? They need to be stripped of their Australian passports if they do. Enough of this PC nonsense. One rule for everyone.

  39. Lynne Newington

    December 8, 2017 at 5:36 pm

    You know, the nation that teaches it’s primary school children ‘death to Jews’ hides it’s weapon caches under schools and hospitals etc etc.”

    Absolute rubbish! (in my view) Evidence please.

    Hamas themselves admitted they used schools and hospitals as human shields to launch rockets on Israel.

    Another one who needs to be spoon fed…..

  40. Lynne Newington

    December 8, 2017 at 11:45 am

    Simon, I quess I could be classed as a “goyim” but treating them as my brothers and sisters … it’s all about respect.
    And as I’ve previously mentioned whenever the question arises … I never knew what anti-Semitism was or even heard of the word until I became a Catholic … [and then there were those evil Masons]….
    It’s all about education and the right spirit that sadly is missing.
    Are you aware of their contribution to our society?
    Many of my dearest friends are Jewish and there’s nothing “goyish” about that.
    Get to know them better.

  41. Russell

    December 8, 2017 at 10:37 am

    Re #2
    “You know, the nation that teaches it’s primary school, children ‘death to Jews’, hides it’s weapon caches under schools and hospitals ect ect.”

    Absolute rubbish! (in my view) Evidence please.

    On the other hand Israel blockades all food and medical supplies from reaching Palestine, and has continually been the land-thieving aggressor in all conflicts in the region.

    But why should anyone be worried about the move anyway? Judaism is a religion of peace, and only a very small number of Jews are radicalized. Right?

    (edited)

  42. Simon Warriner

    December 7, 2017 at 11:52 pm

    re 2, 3. The history of Israel is an object lesson in the effectiveness of terrorism.

    Irgun ring any bells?

    And what about what the Torah teaches Jews about their relationships with us goyim?

    You need to read a bit of history that is not edited by the Anti Defamation League extorting compliance from publishers.

  43. Lynne Newington

    December 7, 2017 at 7:02 pm

    Well said JDN, but don’t expect too many thumbs up.
    I’m waiting to hear what noise will be coming from Rome. They’ve been pitting Palestine and Israel against each other for decades and hedging their bets on which one will give them more power … and Holy Sites.

  44. JDN

    December 7, 2017 at 12:48 pm

    Israel recognises Jerusalem as it’s capital city.

    You are wrong Bill, Donald Trump did not declare Jerusalem is Israels capital, congress did.

    In 1995, Bill Clinton’s congress passed a bill to also recognise the capital, however Clinton refused to move the embassy, and it has since been perpetually delayed by each president since, ignoring the wishes of congress.

    #1, Bob, it’s a bit rich to call Israel a terrorist state, whilst defending Palestine – You know, the nation that teaches it’s primary school, children ‘death to Jews’, hides it’s weapon caches under schools and hospitals ect ect.

    If anything, Trump moving the embassy is staying on course to the function of democracy, by going along with votes of elected representatives within congress.

    But why should anyone be worried about the move anyway? Islam is a religion of peace, and only a very small number of Muslims are radicalized. Right?

  45. Bob Hawkins

    December 7, 2017 at 9:35 am

    We know that, on the inside, Donald Trump is a hate-mongering simpleton.

    The fact that, on the outside, he looks like the dork he constantly reminds us that he is intensifies this view of what he stands for among those who don’t believe that threats of violence are the way to go.

    Long ago, I came to realise that the silly, repetitive circular joining of his right thumb and forefinger is Trump’s unconscious indication of the size of his IQ.

    This week, the sleazy malevolence in the man was out there again for all to see with his declaration of recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

    Sadly, Trump-ery is a manifestation of an alarming global trend to a resurgent bout of frightening fascism/nazism that is gripping nations where the pillars of democracy are being crumbled.

    It’s happening here in Australia.

    We have people in high places who appear to be welcoming its resurgence — and, sadly, hoi polloi that exhibit such a level of dim-wittedness that the trend is winning enough oxygen to gain momentum.

    When I was a child, my mother, a devout Christian, rejoiced in the creation of Israel, believing that it was the fulfilment of an aeons-old promise. (She wasn’t very well-informed about the politics of the hideous situation ME was in as a result of cruel and thoughtless colonial policies.)

    She would turn in her grave if she knew that, in the years since, Israel has progressed from being a struggling democracy to, all too often, what many today see as a terrorist state.

    It seems to me that a big turning point came with the collapse of the Soviet Union and Russian religious extremists migrated in huge numbers to Israel, thus undermining the democratic principles upon which Israel was founded; as well as intensifying hatred towards the Palestinians among a portion of the Israeli population that, today, dictates the composition of the Knesset.

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