Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Economy

We are in deep trouble …

Pic: The Rally crosses their arms in the style of the Manus’ protesters …

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Pic: Rob Walls’ pic of Greens Leader Cassy O’Connor addressing the rally …

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Pic: Rob Walls of today’s Parliament Lawns protest in support of Manus

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*Pic: PNG forces burn Manus mens possessions under supervision of ABF and AFP. Later reports indicate PNG forces beat the refugees with iron rods … Photo by Haider Bayat at Manus

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First published November 24

I have been glued to mainstream and social media on the Manus issue as an advocate for 3 years. And I’ve met a few refugees along the way.

But yesterday (Friday) took the biscuit. The sight of Aussies swallowing dishonest propaganda whole has shaken me. We’re in deep trouble if we think that Dutton and Bishop can lie straight in bed at night, let alone display any sensitivity to the facts of 4 years of offshore detention.

Every knee jerk racist troll claims that the refugees on Manus trashed their own living space yesterday. They have dutifully maintained Dutton’s line that each of us can blame refugees for anything. They even claimed that drawing on your sweating prison walls was vandalism. Well what else was there to do for 4 years? Never happens in white jails, surely!!

Xenophobic patriot trolls ignore the tidier “before” pictures of Wednesday 22nd in the camp and the many touching images of tired, hungry, traumatised men cleaning up the camp “after” Dutton’s destructive proxies and PNG thugs left in the evening of 23rd.

They get their story from Ray Hadley and a glance at scant, slanted mainstream news if they notice it all. Other (very busy) trolls work for the very companies and ministry that abused the men.

Our “patriots” have missed the fact that since staff left Manus RPC, the men have been empowered and become more organised. They have done this despite a lack of water, medication, medical care, sanitation, electricity and the demoralising blockade of food. A handful of judiciously used solar battery chargers are looked on as proof that the men are lying about having no power or flushing loos. Because belief is all that matters to a racist.

[“Oh well, mate. It’s alright. They’ll get compo. They’re cool. And they got food. They’ve got their lives. What more do they want?”]

Well there are at least 6 men whose families would actually like their sons’ their lives back. There are men who are injured permanently. There are still vibrant, dynamic, clever young adults who won’t ever forget the powerlessness they have experienced. And they have been slandered again and again by Australia’s officials and their supporters. Just because they were vulnerable.

These refugees are not saints. But jail never brought out the best in anyone. However, the abuse they experienced has led these men to cooperate pretty well. The emotional maturity and organisation that most Manus refugees have displayed under pressure is an example to us all.

As one whose grandfathers and also father came back from wars physically and emotionally damaged (Dad’s Korean War spinal shrapnel used to set off airport metal detectors, four great uncles died over Britain or France, grandpa Jack lost an arm, Grandpa was ultimately finished off by the gassing); as one whose Great Uncle Ron, a banker, survived camps in Singapore for 4 years and came back pretty damn broken; as one who has worked alongside an ex Changi inmate, I disgree that a lousy $35K will fix any of that.

And don’t the “Patriots” see the “do as you would be done by” parallel in any of this? Or are they really too thick? How long would THEY manage up there in the tropics? (Oh, that’s right, a few of the Aussie “security” staff got a bit violent and rapey. Marvellous!)

Career Officer Molan took professional pride in demonstrating that this Fortress Island would not be breached on his watch. (Note that this is not a man who has been directly exposed to war in his own home country. Sure, a few subs approached Darwin and Sydney in his parents’ lifetime). He probably also believes that every non-Anglo is a potential terrorist because that’s what the chaplain led him to believe in Sunday school. He has only devoted his mind to military and naval strategy since.

Foreigners are not lesser humans. Even the ones whose parents were, luckily, not killed by the Taliban or bombed out of house and home after their sons and daughters had left.

No amount of compo will change the fact that the Manus refugees were singled out because they chose boats instead of planes after July 2013. Those who arrived by plane pre Abbott endured a shorter stint in camps and got back on their feet more easily. They were more able to support their mothers, brothers, sisters, wives and children. The not drowning argument doesn’t wash. Boats still come but are turned back or captured before they reach Australian waters.

“Safe transit countries” like Indonesia are overflowing with people. The immigration detention camps there are horrifying too.

The Compo is a distraction. It was a cynical settlement. It doesn’t compensate the men for their lost health, their abuse, their near death experiences, death of friends nor for isolation torture. $35K each is merely an expression of Australian Border Force culpability. We used these men as deterrents.

Bottom line, any vulnerable Australians (whether in Don Dale or at the mercy of another government institution) can expect similar treatment if we shrug off this event as a one-off.

People can be disempowered in so many ways in an information age.

Scared for their own jobs, SBS decided to imply that the remaining men elected to leave in buses today. The vision of beatings with sticks were dismissed as misattributed or not real or somehow less than persuasive. The Manus refugees have in fact lost free choice and self determination. They are back inside fenced compounds with security guards watching over them and or protecting them from machete armed raskols. Who cares that the fenced crates have intermittent power or are newly fitted?

The truth is, the violent ouster of the men across the past 2 days was in contempt of PNG court. Men like Behrouz Boochani were held in handcuffs without charge. There was undue force. The rule of law has not been respected. The next court date was for December.

As a Labor Party member, I’m not supposed to say Shame on You to Shorten and his ineffectual shadow cabinet. But I will. They let the xenophobia grow by failing to stand up to One Nation and LNP racism. The unions have only recently spoken out about Manus. Many old lefties still fear that their wages will be undercut by refugees. Even though they have seen the government grow its own budget in order to find $10b to squitter away on detention. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

The alternative for Labor is … quite a few more electoral routs like Northcote. And it serves them right. Because racist fascism will affect the safety and wellbeing of my kids as much as any time I spend online or any culinary shortcuts I dare take around their FODMAP allergies.

No more of this “jobs worth” crap from SBS or Shorten, please. Better people than you have fought and died for the truth.

Intercepting refugees in Malaysia and Indonesia will prevent some unanticipated arrivals. But swift and humane solutions would also include simply accepting people and providing them with orientation and the means manage in their new countries. There is plenty of positive work in supplying the supports the newcomers need. We don’t need to insist on unnecessary suffering. As an unadulterated leftie, I’d argue that we can afford to help everyone if we tax our own 1 per cent properly.

But we can argue about that one when Manus is over.

These men may deserve millions in compo each but they also deserve fresh starts in nothing less than safe third countries. No machetes. No racism. No fear. They have shown what they are made of and I salute them.

Nothing can distract the burgeoning community of Refugee advocates from that.

Richard Flanagan: Behrouz Boochani exposed Australia’s evil on Manus. The shame will outlive us all We are now known as the inventors of a vile form of repression. Instead of thanking the refugee reporter for alerting us to what was happening to our country, we enabled his imprisonment

Manus Island police use long metal poles to beat refugees

• Nikala Sim in Comments: Manus Update …

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• Jane Salmon …

Last images of Manus Refugee’s Dog Before It was Deliberately Thrown From Moving Bus & Killed on Friday 24/11/17

This was Foxy’s last moments alive.

It is not only Manus refugees who were abused during evacuation of the RPC.

These pets have been 4 legged antidepressants for men who have shared their food ration with the animals across the past 4 years.

Source is a video from a refugee taken on Friday

There are ongoing concerns for other pets of the men including Tiger, Waterfall …

• Jane Salmon …

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Pic: GetUp co-ordinated all the rallies …

Despite elections in Qld and in several electorates in other states, many Canberrans turned up at 10am today to show solidarity with offshore refugees wanting freedom and safe third countries.

It is clear that PNG and Nauru are not safe.

It is clear that refugees have been abused & used as deterrents for 4-1/2 years too long.

Jane Salmon …

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Donate HERE

• Jane Salmon …

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68 Comments

68 Comments

  1. Russell

    December 13, 2017 at 10:39 am

    Re #66
    Couldn’t name any, eh?

  2. Russell

    December 8, 2017 at 10:57 am

    Re #66
    Name the wonderful things “The Australian people have done so much for the indigenous in the last few decades”.

    You should get your story aligned with the others. Before it was nearly all Iranians, now you say they’re all Afghans and Syrians!

    Whichever way you look at it they are only fleeing because we are illegally occupying and bombing the crap out of their countries.

    Got any real quantifiable proof rather than citing the fake noos reports?

  3. Ian Lovell

    December 7, 2017 at 10:15 pm

    #63 and #64 … A quick google indicated in 2013 it was around $10,000 US to get on a boat before the cost decreased due to boat turn-backs and Australian policy slowing the travel numbers. Most are Afghans and Syrians by report and that is big money for them, yes I assumed and rightfully so that they were influential. I realise this doesn’t suit your argument so by all means dismiss this and focus elsewhere …

    Attack me if you want but if you spent a moment to search the web instead of your rant you might just learn something.

    #64 … name them? What???

  4. Robin Charles Halton

    December 5, 2017 at 4:24 pm

    At the end of the day its is about the nation having sustainable population targets in place and not having to exploit our resources beyond their means.

    It is often blamed on Muslims for upsetting the peaceful balance within our Australian society although I think we rapidly approaching a point where the Chinese are capable of upsetting the fairness of home ownership in Australia.

    House prices seem to governed by keen Chinese interest in our market willingness to pay over the top just to get a foothold in applying for citizenship.

    Perhaps our greatest threat comes from oversea interests in our real estate and primary production regions.

    Selling out the nation is something that governments should face to explain changes to policy and free trade agreements that actually are of a benefit for Australians across the
    board!

    With another Federal election coming up then now is the time to show support for Australian families and not the big of town which plays with overseas business.

    Home ownership affordability should be a major agenda item allowing the government and the Opposition to both put foward a more equatable policy that weighs in favor of home ownership for genuine Australian citizens and not the rick blow ins from Asia.

  5. Russell

    December 4, 2017 at 12:52 pm

    Re #61
    Once again, not one single shred of proof/evidence to back your parroted pub-talk claims.

    #62
    “The Australian people have done so much for the indigenous in the last few decades”

    Name them.

  6. abs

    December 4, 2017 at 1:23 am

    Ian, I asked you (in #15) to substantiate your statement that attempted to characterise these people as mostly ‘influencial people’. You have failed to provide any evidence backing this statement, nor clarify what ‘mostly influential people’ actually means.

    It is silly or avoidant of you to try and twist this onto me. I have made no statement requiring backing with evidence (apart from stating that they are not in a position to defend themselves from baseless slurs). Unlike you and tony, i am not deluded into thinking i know all.

    As is often pointed out on TT, it is up to those making statements to back them. You have simply tried (poorly so) to create straw men arguments.

    In you latest ‘offering’ you state “Don’t get so hung up on evidence, it doesn’t stop people like yourself ignoring it because it doesn’t suit the cause”.

    What ignored ‘evidence’ are you referring to here? (bit of a heads-up tiger – your opinion does not constitute ‘evidence’)

  7. Ian Lovell

    December 3, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    #50 … nothing I nor anyone else can do about that, but we can secure our borders now. The Australian people have done so much for the indigenous in the last few decades and comments like yours undo a fair bit of that.

    Bite your tongue mate and come together as an Australian. We can’t do anything about the past – but we can the future.

  8. Ian Lovell

    December 3, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    #52 … there is no evidence, these criminals destroy that before attempting to enter our country. They are afraid to enter it with their identity for some unknown reason.

    Don’t get so hung up on evidence, it doesn’t stop people like yourself ignoring it because it doesn’t suit the cause. Selective objectivity perhaps?

  9. Russell

    December 3, 2017 at 1:36 pm

    Re #59
    You’re as bad as Nagle. …

    (edited)

  10. Tony Stone

    December 3, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    #55 Russell, Fully understand how difficult it is to grasp, understand and appreciate reality, compared to a denialists delusions.

    It’s not sane logical humans fault primitive minded ideologues are fleeing their countries, it’s their ideological beliefs, which is the cause and only problem.

    That belief is the same as everyone involved, the belief in the mythical war god yahweh. It’s every believer in god that is at fault and by that association, an accessory to the carnage and destruction being waged against the planet.

    Those are the real facts Russell, not ideological denial and blame shifting. If the land was to speak Russell, it would say, go away god nutters, bring back animists and their caring approach to nature and life on earth.

    Didn’t address your silliness, anyone with a minute understanding of life, would realise if you work in hospitality and entertainment, you meet people from every walk of life.

    The closest people in my life are migrants and refugees, but no god nutters. The non believer refugees who are in the minority, are very nice people and wish to become a part of our society, not change or destroy it as their god nutter counterparts do.

    Nice people are always welcome in this country, but not crazy as hell god nutters who seem to think they have a right to act in whatever way they like.

    Hence the growing number of violent invasions and crime, perpetuated by supposed religious refugees from African and middle eastern countries.

    We are not in Africa Russell, there it’s all about religion, just like every where else. All the evil in the world can be traced back to one thing, ideology and the worst form of ideology, is the belief in a mythical war god.

    That’s the only problem, nothing else and as long as the god cult holds power, only war and destruction will result. Bringing more of these people into this country, is completely insane. Unless the agenda is to fulfill the agenda of the myth, total war against everything, as stated in their myths.

  11. abs

    December 3, 2017 at 11:15 am

    that’s all well and good, RCH.

    re-read my posts, i am simply asking you to address you labeling him a terorist. It seems you are avoiding addressing this like it is the plague.

  12. Russell

    December 3, 2017 at 10:39 am

    Re #55
    “Denial is the hallmark of an ideologue Russell”

    Keep on denying the facts Tony. It’s our fault they are fleeing their countries in all directions, and it’s our fault they are on Manus and Nauru.

    And keep avoiding answering any questions. You haven’t met and spoken with any refugees, have you?

    “All humans are ignorant. Some exist in a state of ‘aggressive ignorance’, where they reflexively and forcefully reject any information that makes them rethink the way they prefer the world to be.” Jackie French – Let The Land Speak. Fits you down to the ground, Tony.

  13. O'Brien

    December 3, 2017 at 2:38 am

  14. Tony Stone

    December 2, 2017 at 11:47 am

    #50 … Age has nothing to do with this, an ideological clone is a clone, no matter the age and humans are ideologically cloned very early in life, by their ideologically controlled parents. We all have some ideological controls within us, if we can recognise and accept it, then it is easily overcome so reality beams through.

    Trying to redirect the conversation so you can dismiss facts and replace them with fictional irrelevant claims is a typical ideological ploy when faced with reality. Denial is the hallmark of an ideologue Russell, the only defence they have against the reality of life is denial and pathetic attempts to redirect blame from them to others.

    There is no rational logic in bringing more people into a country renowned for its harsh environment, fragile water and environmental systems. After all, the indigenous survived for tens of thousands of years, with a small population and they knew how to live with nature.

    You and your kind want to do the opposite and saturate an overpopulated dying country with more useless human cretins. Where’s the logic in that insanity, considering the historical reality?

    When you add those you wish to bring here are all dedicated to enforcing their deranged factional beliefs onto every society they infest. We see it with every faction of the god cult, whose entire history is one of war, conflict, suppression, genocide, abuse and ideological insanity.

    Those supporting that form of mental derangement are a product of the same problems facing the planet, the pathological denial of the reality created by allowing god nutters of another faction to infiltrate and disrupt the societies of other god nutter factions.

    We have an entire 2 thousand years of verifiable history supporting my contention, with not one year during that time where the followers of the mythical war god Yahweh have not invaded, suppressed or instigated conflict upon other cultures societies or factions and sects of their own cult. Today it continues unabated and in more ferocious forms around the planet.

    It matters not who wins this argument as the end result will not change – and that’s the end of world societies as the delusion we all live under collapses under the weight of evolution. Another really dramatic sign of this collapse is the fracturing of personal relationships and a desire for some of the really crazy ideologues to destroy society when they have nothing but empty bitterness to replace it.

    We are seeing blatant evidence of this destructive phenomenon in the move by the ideologically driven women’s movement which is desperate to put every male into the category of abuser and demon. You see this in just about every female journalists article where 90% now is orientated to denouncing all males as evil and all their writings are directed at that aim.

    It’s the same here on TT where just about every post from women is directed at belittling men, and you find that on most forums. The effect of this is a growing social attrition and sociological collapse. So all the signs are in perfect unison and lined up for the main event, the total demise of ideological humanity and sadly, world societies.

    When you consider our country’s political system is fully controlled by members of the god cult you soon realise that there is no hope for a future other than disaster on all fronts. Ideologues can make all the excuses they want Russell; they deny the blatant evidence and facts of this reality. But it won’t change anything as the ideological approach has failed and created the end game for ideological humanity.

    Nothing like being destroyed by your own hand, which is what is happening now. Your reference to who is in the photo accompanying this piece shows how far from reality ideological humanity lives, and bringing more clearly violent ideological misfits into this country is a ready-made recipe for sociological disaster.

    Here are a couple of reasons nothing can or will change … ideologues are bandwagon riders, they jump on any bandwagon created by their crazed leaders in the hope it will bring them recognition and acceptance and become a part of the winning team.

    Sadly this is the opposite to the real outcome and the clones just end up as cannon fodder for the elites of their beliefs.

    The more collapse we see, the more we will see ideologues scrambling to get on any bandwagon they can, hoping it will save them. They have to be a part of the crowd, or they can’t function in any way.

    But history shows us that the opposite always happens, and the clinging clones become the victims of their own delusions. However not to worry, god is coming and will save you all. Just ask the leaders of the cult, they will tell you they are peace-loving people when the reality is the complete opposite – and you and your ilk want to being more of them here.

  15. Russell

    December 2, 2017 at 11:26 am

    Re #53
    So what was so glorious about THOUSANDS of Australians and New Zealanders being sacrificed and sent to their death in one of the most disasterous and atrocious military actions set upon them by the English Commanders?

    And how is Australia’s involvement in all the illegal Middle East conflicts and the atrocious and disastrous outcomes caused there any better?

    The English certainly didn’t do THEIR best to settle into the ‘Australian’ way of life just over 200 years ago!

  16. Robin Charles Halton

    December 1, 2017 at 10:52 pm

    #52, abs, its all exposed on the Internet, its almost unbelievable how Dastyari is portrayed, he is widely not just disliked but hated beyond belief!

    Dastyari has confided in recent months that he might consider a career outside politics, particularly in the media sphere as he now grapples with how to recover with two indiscretions “so far” that has engulfed him!

    There is no way he can recover a political career let alone a community career and I cant see any sort of media career suitable for him either!

    Io put it mildly he is a wanker as was ABC/SBS Presenter Yassmin Abdel-Magied, given media attention only resulting in embarrassment to to decent law abiding Muslims doing their best to settle into the Australian way of life.

  17. abs

    December 1, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    Ian … I have simply asked you to provide evidence. You assume to know my position and chosen thoughts. I have not made any statements that require evidence. I simply ask, reasonably so, for those who make statements to back them with evidence. You fail, as does Tony (who seems to think more ranting will cover for the fact that his statements are made evidence free).

    RCH … I agree with you that he should not be in parliament, yet you called him a terrorist?

  18. Robin Charles Halton

    December 1, 2017 at 1:28 am

    In NSW its well known that Dastyari had considerable pulling power among Chinese and other ethnic community groups.
    He is believed to have an important sway along with Chris Bowen and Jason Clare controlling the NSW right wing balance with certain unions.

    There is already active talk of a move against Shorten as Dastyari is believed to be supporting Chris Bowen as Shorten’s possible replacement.
    In 2013 left wing NSW frontbencher Anthony Albanese won the popular vote but lost the contest by failing to gain a majority in 50% of the party room vote.
    Shorten put Dastyari on his campaign bus last year as Sam was good at prepping him for campaign stops, but the other part of including Sam was to keep him close!

    Dastyari is safe for the time being as he still has the backing of the NSW right!

  19. Russell

    November 30, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    Re #46
    How many people under 50 in this article’s photos do you see? They’re not exactly a bunch of people with no life experience, especially in the time the despicable USA Alliance has caused and inflicted the most inhumane damage upon the world.

    The USA Alliance are the invaders and economic pirates.

    Re #47
    I repeat, the British were the first to enter this country uninvited and proceeded to steal it from the rightful owners and then hunt them down like animals and to this day treat them less than they would treat their pets.

    So don’t hypocritically preach about uninvited peoples coming here to create havoc.

  20. Russell

    November 30, 2017 at 11:26 am

    Re #44
    Another shot in your own foot is the fact that “The winging little egotistical runt” didn’t get here as a refugee, did he? So don’t try to link the little shit with the abandoned Iranian refugee community on Manus.

    However, if the little sook is proved to have forewarned Chinese billionaire businessman Huang Xiangmo about an ASIO investigation, then he should and must be held to face charges of Treason.

  21. Robin Charles Halton

    November 30, 2017 at 11:19 am

    #45, Dastyari is a dangerous man to have in our political circles, he demonstrates a false alliance to our national affairs by crawling to the worlds incoming master race, the Chinese to further increase their grip over world affairs.

    His ultra ego is a cause for national concern and he essentially must be sacked altogether from Parliament before it is too late.

  22. Ian Lovell

    November 30, 2017 at 9:38 am

    #43, apologies for the auto correct of my phone but it’s not too hard to understand for most I wouldn’t think.

    Evidence, I don’t have any just like the “asylum seekers” but that doesn’t stop you for choosing that there cause is real. Hypocritical a tad perhaps…..

    A question you might be able to answer for that a simple person such as I struggle with, where do these people get the money from to buy their seats on the illegal boats to our shores?

    They appear to have no problem in illegally entering Australia so why should they care if Indonesia is part of the 1951 Refugee Convention.

  23. Tony Stone

    November 30, 2017 at 9:30 am

    This thread is all the proof needed showing our society has no hope whatsoever, of surviving the next couple of years sanely. Let alone having a viable future.

    The divide between sanity and ideological delusion is so wide, as to be insurmountable. The demand of ideologues to open our borders against all the viewable evidence as to what happens to societies letting more and more crazed god nutters into their countries, is irrefutable.

    But the ideologues, refuse to see anything but their delusions and the result is viewable around the world, chaos and conflict as their fantasy land dreams collapse around them.

    Attacking someone because they want Australia to be first in our thoughts and actions, is the sign of a very sick and dying society.

    Only badly warped minds would try to change what someone means, so they can attack them. We are seeing this everywhere around the planet as a real sign of sociological and psychological collapse of ideological humanity.

    When your delusionary hopes reach the zenith of their attempts to change reality, only collapse is ahead and that’s where we are now.

    Every ideological society before this one has gone the same way, fast. So there are many precedents for what is occurring and nothing will be done to stop it. Ideologues can’t change, their minds are not capable of understanding or coping with reality. This thread and others dealing with the future, are ample proof of this reality.

  24. abs

    November 29, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    What are you talking about RCH with “… elect a terrorist plotter into our Parliament!”

    Sam Dystyari appears to be corrupt and a typical political grub. Trusting him is done at one’s own folly, yet to speak of him as being a terrorist …?

    Do you realise the blatant racism in yourself, Robin??

    Our parliament is filled with corrupt little egotistical runts/fat porkers who line their pockets, and the pockets of party and donors, at the expense of democracy, yet you save the term ‘terrorist’ for the muslim/Iranian descendant (without any evidence or even pub-test level reason to smear him with that label). Nice work

  25. Robin Charles Halton

    November 29, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    We are in deep trouble all right when voters are that gullible enough to elect a terrorist plotter into our Parliament!
    Sam Dastyari is not exactly a trusting representative for the Australian parliament is he!
    Not a good look for Iranians trying to crawl their way into Australia then turn around and work against our democracy.
    The winging little egotistical runt, Allah forbid!

  26. abs

    November 29, 2017 at 10:24 am

    Ian #45 … there seems to be typos in your first statement as it doesn’t make sense.

    But before you go on with other distractions, lets be very clear. you made a statement ( “Most were influential citizens in their own country that fled with dollars in hand to try to buy freedom”).

    I asked you for evidence, do you have any evidence of this?? can you detail this better. what do you mean by ‘influential citizens’? what do you imply by stating that they had ‘dollars in their hand’? does this last statement aim to posit that they were not fleeing due to threats or concerns for their safety?

    Do you imply that if they had “dollars in their hand” that renders them ineligible for refugee status?

    Why not settle in Indonesia? you ask. Indonesia is not a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention. Refugee there they would have little to no legal rights, extremely limited financial resources and no access to government services.

    Are you going to present yourself further like others here, Ian, you know…big on making statements, devoid of evidence to back statements?

  27. Ian Lovell

    November 28, 2017 at 11:46 pm

    #15 abs, you reckless n they get on the boat for nothing do you? I can see who has swallowed the hook here. Wake up princess and realise it’s not all roses out there. Who was shooting at them in Indonesia when they were looking for a boat? Why not settle there?

    Too many questions you won’t (can’t) answer…..

  28. Robin Charles Halton

    November 28, 2017 at 6:35 pm

    #40 Tim, my apologies to all readers, Australia comes First! I am not that harsh that I would ever consider support for anti immigration group Australia First, never!

  29. Tim Thorne

    November 28, 2017 at 1:24 pm

    #39 … Australia First? Why? And especially why the upper case F?

  30. Robin Charles Halton

    November 28, 2017 at 11:20 am

    #35, Tony Stone, Australian government is right to stick with Facts 2 and 3.

    Quite a generous offering under the circumstance in which uninvited persons arrive on our shores. fair and humane in my opinion!

    Both Coalition and Labor are correct to stick to their rules of engagement as the abilty to continue to freeload into our nation is being curtailed.

    Australia must be relied on to solve the worlds increasing problems of political instability, overpopulation and war between factions primarily over religious and racial differences.

    Remember we are also subject to unwelcome takeovers by the squeezing effects of China’s soft power too.

    The next Federal election will require candidates who are primarily interested in supporting the peoples of this nation first and foremost.

    Population stability, respect of resources, a continuing strong sense of border protection and every attempt to create a sense of helping others in the region by way of providing PHYSICAL aid to those in need when natural disasters strike.

    Greens influenced protesters and others need to get their priorities right as they continue to support radical ideas of humanity, Australia First please!

  31. abs

    November 28, 2017 at 11:14 am

    Tony, i ask you for evidence for your statements. very simply, really.

    I’ll be clear, what evidence do you have that they are ‘economic invaders’? this statement claims that they are lying about why they attempted to reach Australia. Evidence, tiger, do you have any??

    In # 19 you stated – “#16 … a great representation of all that’s wrong with world society, no answers, just denial, abusive attacks and a refusal to accept the viewable evidenced reality.”

    My post was #16, therefore you stated that my post is a great representation of, among other things, ‘abusive attacks’. I asked you what from my post constituted ‘abusive attacks’. You then claimed that you have not accused me of anything.

    if you make statements and can’t back them, well it’s likely you’ll be called out.

    if you think all i add is ‘abusive trolling’, then please alert the editor/s.

    so far on this thread i have mocked and asked for evidence to statements, ‘abusive trolling’?? good luck with that one….

  32. Russell

    November 28, 2017 at 9:45 am

    Re #21
    Sorry again, that was the USA-backed Kuwait. Still, every single one of them are USA influenced and militarised.

  33. Russell

    November 28, 2017 at 9:42 am

    Re #21
    Sorry, that was Saudi Arabia that drilled into Iraq’s oilfields under USA instructions. Still, just another case of the USA meddling in the Middle East.

    Re #35
    I said no such thing about being an idealogue if you read my post correctly. Quite the opposite.

    In answer to your ‘facts’.

    Fact 1. The British were the first to enter this country uninvited and proceeded to steal it from the rightful owners and then hunt them down like animals and to this day treat them less than they would treat their pets. So don’t preach about uninvited peoples coming here to create havoc.

    Fact 2. Another example of what the colonials did to Indigenous Australians and even closer to home in Tasmania when they were rounded up and shipped off to Flinders Island ‘for their own good’.

    Fact 3. Our government took away their food, health care, money, accommodation, water supply, electricity supply and options for resettlement or repatriation. That IS EXACTLY abandonment! Also reinforced with the recent compensation the Government had to pay to some of the people. I hope the rest of them sue the arse off our gutless inhuman government and take them to the Human Rights Commission.

    Fact 4. We notice you refrained from any comment about the the UN has condemnation of the Australian government many times for this inhuman and unlawful detention of refugees under the most horrendously outrocious conditions.

    Fact 5. The only reason why the UN seems corrupt at times is because the it has been set up so that lowlife countries like the USA or Russia can veto any and every positive proposal put forward.

    Fact 6. These people ARE our responsibility because WE put them there and then abandoned them.

    Fact 7. Most conflicts are not ABOUT religion, but most of them USE religion as their excuse especially those started by the USA, which is just about all of them since their own civil war onwards, so your view is very disputable. ‘Alternative facts’ are NOT facts.

    Still not one single shred of hard evidence you provide in your uninformed idealogical spew and it seems you have not met one single refugee to form any REAL and credible view. No real-life experience to draw from at all.

    You are no better or different than the Liberals and Hansonites you keep railing against. Just another mindless and emotionless political hypocrite parroting the capitalist immoral agenda.

  34. Tony Stone

    November 28, 2017 at 8:09 am

    #30 … I have not accused you of anything. If you feel you fit the description of an ideologue, then its your belief, and no one else. We all have ideology within us, it’s how we cope with those controls and overcome them that count, but your reply is a wonderful example of ideological denial and fantasy land thinking.

    Fact 1, these people are on Manus because they tried to enter our country uninvited, we did not ask them to come. They are unwelcome home invaders and nothing else, no different to the African supposed refugees creating terror on the streets of our cities, the deranged PC crowd brought here to create havoc.

    Fact 2, They were all offered paid repatriation, or transport to another muslim country and are free to move or become a part of the community in Manus, PNG or any muslim country they want to go to. That’s not indefinite detention, just the opposite.

    Fact 3, our government provided them with food, money, accommodation and options for resettlement or repatriation. That’s not abandonment.

    Fact 5, the UN is a toothless corrupt organisation, designed so that multinational companies can dump their reject food supplies and goods onto vulnerable people and grow the bank balances of the ruling elites They never provide what the people really need, population control and freedom from the god cult..

    Fact 6, These people, like all humans are their own responsibility and most definitely not ours or our governments responsibility in any way.

    Fact 7, just about all conflicts on the planet are about religion or some other ideological repressive regime and religion is the most prevalent aspect. In fact religion is behind all the evil on the planet, those facts are indisputable, expect to religious ideologues, who have no idea of reality or fact. How can you, when you believe a mythical non existent war god is real and promotes love, can’t get any more bizarre than those claims when you look at the real history of the cult and all its factions and deranged sects. Their lives revolve around pure fiction and nothing else.

    Fact 7 historical hyperbole and just a reflection of how deceitful, corrupt and deranged ideological humans really are.

    The rest of your post is typical of the deluded PC crowd, derogatory comments, attacks, false claims not represented by the real facts and a refusal to see past ignorance.

    When evolution of any kind reaches a point where change is inevitable, there is always confusion and desperation in the life forms that refuse to adapt to evolutionary change and understanding. We are at the point Russell, we all hopefully have the choice of moving on with evolution, or clinging to the past era of ideological delusion and being relegated to the past.

    Humanity is at the point now, we have two choices, one, dislodge ourselves form the current ideological debacle and move to cope with the future, leaving the rest to their own devices.

    Or we stick with the sinking ship of ideological controls, in a vain attempt to keep afloat an era which is so far past its evolutionary use by date, as to be threatening all life on earth.

    I’ll move on, you can stick with the status quo and continue making out your ideology is right, when the entire planetary facts, prove how wrong you really are.

  35. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    November 28, 2017 at 12:07 am

    Re # 27 … The trouble with ideological exceptionalism (pretension to being unique, not subject to the ordinary rules and only appreciable by the subject him or herself) is that it is the favorite special pleading tool of adolescents and frauds trying to bluff their way past critical judgement and adverse social consequences.

    Knowing one’s antagonists doesn’t mean one has to talk to them to get the picture of what they are up to. As it happens, I do know someone who does talk to the them all the time and understands what some of our asylum seeking friends say to one another about us in their own language. A lot of it isn’t flattering.

    And yes, I am plugging a line that has been heard before. But these columns are full of stuff we have heard before, including the ‘heart rending’ garbage in the article above.

    My article (see comment #25) was written originally in 2011 in response to the same drivel being endlessly repeated in these columns on this subject which hasn’t improved with time or the education of experience.

    None of my libertarian humanist brothers and sisters are inclined to listen or modify their views any more than the neo-conservative cranks down at the IPA and the Heartlands Institute.

    They are made of exactly the same cliche-encrusted ideological blather, bluster and denialism. They have the same stake in the status quo, which is to promote the supremacy of private interest over the common weal, accompanied by a deregulatory agenda that breaks down boundaries on behalf of those interests whether they are to do with national trade and industry, or moral and social ones.

    The asylum seeker argument is a classic of the genre where small and unrepresentative interests are encouraged by ideological swill to destroy a perfectly good frontier regulatory system that has served and protected our multi-cultural society very well over a protracted period of great change.

    All these half blinded fools can see is the individual interest and to hell with the stability friendly collective rules based one that insists on orderly and cost effective management, and having an equitable regard for the interests of those who cannot afford to employ people smugglers!

    The social libertarian pricks are exactly the same as their corporate opposite numbers who think that pushing your way through the queue, screwing the regulatory system and trampling over competitors is the way to get on in life.

    The people in Manus are betting on busting our system of refugee intake by using the ‘poor- thing-buy-anything’ ideological organ grinders in our midst to batter their way in.

    Fortunately, we still have majorities in this country who are not completely unabashed and shameless sucks whose conceit makes them incapable of seeing the damage they leave behind themselves in everything they touch.

    Governance, whether it be administered in relation to transnational corporations, asylum seekers or bringing up children, requires a capacity to be tough in the enforcement of its edicts. In the real world, paper tigers don’t last long.

  36. john hayward

    November 27, 2017 at 11:27 pm

    Robin #29 … you have salvaged my faith in idiocy.

    World markets and climate change will not affect us so long as we deny their existence.

    But we may also need to regulate right-wing pollies who are so keen to import a low-cost work force for their mates, even when domestic unemployment is high.

    Robin’s background in the Tas logging industry will reassure everyone that his ideas are soundly thought out.

    John Hayward

  37. Stu

    November 27, 2017 at 11:15 pm

    Simple solution. Voluntary additional taxation to support refugees that arrive by boat, with those that support them pay the tax. Wonder what proportion of Australians would be willing. Any on this site putting up their hands?

  38. Mike Bolan

    November 27, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    We’re in deep trouble all right!

    Our “all rights, no responsibilities” governments have no regard for taxpayers, or others who they have agreed to help. The treatment meted out to refugees is mirrored in the treatment of aborigines and has been playing out in our treatment of Centrelink recipients.

    Youths in prison haven’t been rehabilitated, nor is aged care descriptively named. Such a gross lack of empathy and consideration is perhaps some compensation for the failures in just about every initiative for which government is responsible. You know? The NBN, absurd gay marriage plebiscite, the failures of ATO’s IT systems, huge delays in the Courts, growing hospital queues and declining standards, ABS messed-up census, uncompetitive education standards and clunky infrastructure. All of this serves to highlight governments overly generous salaries and lifelong benefits for which we all have to pay.

    Unsustainable isn’t the right…it’s flagrant ineptitude and hubris as well.

  39. Russell

    November 27, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    Re #19
    Denialist – noun: a person who refuses to admit the truth of a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence.
    Idealogue – noun: someone who theorizes (especially in science or art)

    I believe you are what you accuse me of Tony. Firstly I deal with fact ONLY. Secondly I do NOT theorise, I’ll leave that to wankers who refuse accept the facts, otherwise known as spin.

    Fact 1. These people are only on Manus and Nauru because our government, under the instruction of the USA has illegally invaded, occupied and continues to bomb and persecute the people of their countries, or drew them into conflicts.

    Fact 2. We put these people in indefintite detention on someone else’s land.

    Fact 3. Our government abandoned these people.

    Fact 4. the UN has condemned the Australian government many times for this inhuman and unlawful detention of refugees under the most horrendously outrocious conditions.

    Fact 5. NZ has offered for a number of years to take 500 of these people annually but our gutless and inhuman government has refused point blank each and every time.

    Fact 6. Ulitimately, these people are OUR government’s responsibility in every aspect imaginable.

    Fact 6. The conflicts in the Middle East are not based on religion but oil, poppies (drugs) and American war industry capitalist interests.

    Fact 7. ALL the excuses proved false and the original ‘reasons’ (ie: WMDs, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, etc.) are ALL long gone. YET we are still there bombing the crap out of their homes and destroying every single bit of infrastructure necessary for a decent way of life while the Oil and Poppies continue to flow out to the USA under the watchful eye of the “yer with us, or agin’ us” ‘coalition’!

    How about coming up with verifiable FACTS instead of gutter pub-talk? You give not ONE shred of verifiable evidence to back your argument. I don’t debate, I deal with FACT.

    I have met and worked with many of the lucky ones who have settled in Australia and I would rather associate with and have them as my friend than most of the useless white-Anglo Australian bogans I have met.

    Have you met any refugees Tony?

    I used to have some respect for you, but that is FAST diminishing with such parroted bogan One Nation type rhetoric.

    You would do EXACTLY the same to get out of a hellhole created by others, all in the name of MONEY.

    Why the fuck would or should these poor bastards go back to these places while their countries are still being raided, razed and occupied by foreign capitalist barbarians?

    No matter how you spin it, NO person deserves to be treated in such a disgusting manner.

    Re #21
    “Countries like Syria are having a civil war to oust Bashar Al-Assad. We didn’t get involved in that at all for years after after the violence had begun.”

    But we are there now! WHY? And why are we helping the genocidal criminal maniac?

    There are no or very very few refugees from Syria on Manus, and it is Bashar Al-Assad who is committing genocide upon his own countrymen with the sandwiched support of the USA alliance and Russia, NOT the other way around.

    As for the large percentage of Iranians, it was under the USA’s instructions that Iran drilled into Iraq’s oilfields and got CAUGHT which started the Bush Iran/Iraq war and has led to the shitfight still happening today and the flood of refugees.

  40. Robin Charles Halton

    November 27, 2017 at 8:12 pm

    #26 Max, you are spot on there old son, true to our country!

    If anything, Australia needs to continue to tighten up on its current refugee intake policies, numbers will have to decline in line with overall sustainable and stable population expectations.

    How the rest of the overly populated globe manages their own affairs is their business, not ours!

    Compatible applicants only need apply!

  41. Tony Stone

    November 27, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    #20 … all your posts could easily be seen as abusive trolling as you add nothing positive to the conversation, just insults. Your ridiculous demand for evidence is freely available on any news or information site around the planet as ample evidence you reject fact and replace it with derogatory fiction.

    It’s fully understandable you don’t recognise abuse as ideologues can’t see past their deluded mindset to see anything of reality. They always deny the most blatant and evidenced abuse which is rife within ideological households, communities and cultures. It’s the most prominent thing in ideological life – lies and abuse.

    The worst form of abuse god nutters indulge in is the psychological abuse of children who they brainwash into believing a mythical god of war, is kind and loving and will come to their aid.

    Yet the facts in all the books they worship, consist of nothing but war, violence, genocide, torture, slavery and threats of death to all who don’t believe, and that’s how it plays out in real life, war. Yet you want more of these deranged misfits to be brought here to spread their demonic insanities, boost their forces and commit ideological war against us.

    Our societies are stuffed and collapsing under the weight of ideological denial, rampant abuse of all life, and their refusal to take any responsibility for their footprint on the planet.

    #26 … Max, the one unifying factor in this discussion is that they all believe in the same supposed loving god, yet their entire history is one of factional conflict and never ending war against all life, which continues today unabated.

    They bring that attitude and approach to every place they infest and if you haven’t noticed, we are in the middle of a world cultural war and the PC crowd are desperate to aid the enemy of Australian culture and help destroy Aus, turning it into another middle-eastern run god nutter sociological war zone.

    All these hundreds of people on Manus are young men. They didn’t bring their families, didn’t fight for their countries and yet had a lot of money to get brought to our area of the world. Rather than all the poor, end up in camps in surrounding countries waiting for some help.

    They had no need to flee and they could have fought for their country, but as true cowards instead they are encouraged to invade safe, sane countries and turn them into replicas of their homelands.

    Who do you think provide all the money for their schools, mosques and other businesses in Aus, the middle east countries. How are most of them able to start up businesses, return to their countries for visits, yet still be classed as refugees.

    You will note the rich, middle eastern countries don’t provide much money to other struggling muslim countries, only those they sent to free societies they want to take over for islam. They do provide money for schools and mosques that are of their particular factional sect, and try to destroy those of others.

    The answer is Max, close our borders to all but tourists. This is a war Max, and we either start winning it now or we will lose badly on all fronts.

    Luckily there is something else that will stop this war as you point out … climate. Problem is, it may not kick in properly until all our societies are in the final death throes of internal ideological conflict and the associated attrition.

  42. abs

    November 27, 2017 at 4:20 pm

    Christopher, yada,yada,yada … we’ve heard you ad nauseum …

    Many of your posts are little more than colourful descriptions of those who have opposing views as I have pointed out elsewhere.

    Ever spoken in great detail with an asylum seeker who went through these camps ? My work brings me knowledge of the personal stories. When I am exposed to this, vague concepts of indulgence capitalism are not very relevant.

    BTW, referencing yourself (where you just carry on with more of the same rhetoric) is not good form, champ.

  43. max

    November 27, 2017 at 3:11 pm

    What is going on Manus and Nauru is an ill conceived brutal and atrocious attempt to stem the tide of people who are forced to migrate because of circumstances that are out of control. What we are seeing is only the tip of an avalanche of migrating refugees that are going to destroy us all by the sheer numbers of them. Australia is all ready over populated. . Global warming will deplete our water as is happening right now. If we throw open our door to all that will come our country will be in the same plight as the ones they are escaping from.

    The deaths at sea are still happening, only somewhere else. Desperate people will do desperate things in survival mode. The very people who are demonstrating will be the same ones who will be demonstrating when their way of life collapses – and it will. Overpopulation, famine from climate change and conflict will see millions of desperate people coming and there is no answer.

  44. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    November 27, 2017 at 2:43 pm

    It is very nice to see a few people standing up to the human rights lobby and calling their bluff and expressing approval and support for calling the bluff of commercial asylum seekers.

    I think is important to tell the human rights crowd just how deeply we disapprove of them, their corrupted values, their uncritical empathy and poor judgement.

    It is time that the human rights lobby copped some real flack for the damage they have done to what is left of our culture and our collective capacity to judge right from wrong.

    It is time, that as agents of indulgence capitalism, they were called out for the shameless way they morally name-call, crib, fudge and bluster.

    For them, it is par for the course to conflate love, compassion, respect and the exercise of ordinary decency into a sludge of indulgence, because they are so intellectually and morally blunted, they cannot tell the difference.

    They have been so successful at characterising critical judgement as the exercise of ‘prejudiced bigotry and stereotyping’ they have undermined their own judgement and have become completely blindsided to the extent of the irrational character of their own prejudices(underpinning values and core beliefs) and bigotry (moral extremism).

    Their positions on asylum seekers is a prime example of their own loss of compass and legitimacy.

    See the following article. It is an oldie but a goody … https://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1904635-Commercial-Asylum-Seekers

  45. Chris

    November 27, 2017 at 2:24 pm

    David Pope expresses it fully here: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/photogallery/federal-politics/cartoons/david-pope-20120214-1t3j0

    Scroll to 2/99 and see the Fizza in all his glory and true nature!

  46. Chris

    November 27, 2017 at 2:21 pm

    #14 along with #17 … “I do however, hold out dearly for those in camps around the world patiently waiting for resettlement – but not these queue jumpers. They will be most welcome in our country and if they have nothing to hide they will bring all documentation with them – unlike the boat riding queue jumpers.”

    That’s straight out of Turnguts and Dullus Dutton’s song book written and expressed in the utmost racist and bigoted terms.

    Oh how ashamed are we of these “humans” who think this way. Why do the names Hanson and Howard come to mind?

    I still do not vote for their adherents when LNP, Nationals and ON are in the same soup.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Australia_policy

  47. Sel

    November 27, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    #13 … I didn’t agree with Aus putting refugees in PNG, but I don’t agree with the refugees protesting either because that building was closed by the supreme court of PNG, so nobody has a choice about this. It’s a mandatory closure.

    The pictured tweet from Ezatullah is worth mentioning because I have personally seen him tell lies on twitter about PNG people, about himself, about one of the refugees charged with rape of a school girl, even about how PNG people treat their dogs. I support the refugees who abided by the law, took resettlement or moved to the transit centre.

    As for the theory about refugees being there bcos we bombed them, it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Countries like Syria are having a civil war to oust Bashar Al-Assad. We didn’t get involved in that at all for years after after the violence had begun. We haven’t invaded the Congo, Bhutans, Sikhs, Sri Lankans, Pakistanis (ezatullah – pictured), Iranian Kurds (refugee journalist) Myanmar, Ethiopia, Eritrea refugees etc. The only country I can find in top 10 refugees is Iraq. So the argument just doesn’t work.

  48. abs

    November 27, 2017 at 12:14 pm

    Tony #18, you state-

    “#16 … a great representation of all that’s wrong with world society, no answers, just denial, abusive attacks and a refusal to accept the viewable evidenced reality.”

    I asked you to back your statement with evidence. You failed spectacularly to do so.

    It is a poor reflection upon yourself to respond to a request for evidence to back statements you made with empty claims that you are on the recieving end of ‘abusive attacks’.

    what part of my statement was an ‘abusive attack’?

  49. Tony Stone

    November 27, 2017 at 11:27 am

    #13, Russel … crap is what you get from denialist ideologues who only concentrate on one of two aspects of an issue so they can support their non-supportable stance.

    Like the belief in god, they concentrate on the illusions, not the overall facts. They are to petrified to look at the overall big picture, to determine the true reality rather than the bizarre fanciful one they want to become real.

    You are partially correct, but when you only look at a small section of the available evidence you can always be correct when the overall evidence shows how deeply incorrect you are.

    Unlike ideologues Russel, I don’t look at what I want to see, but the overall planetary situation and from there, determine a probably outcome.

    The current conflicts in the middle east are no different to the religious conflicts which have been and still are occurring since the invention of the insane god cult and will continue until every god nutter is removed from the planet by evolution and nature.

    The evidence I base my conclusions on include the fact there is not one islamic or muslim country on the planet that is not in a state of war, conflict and/or internal oppression.

    They are presently fighting amongst themselves determined to be proven right as to who is the best supporter of yahweh the mythical god of war, and there’s not much common sense in that form of insanity.

    When you add that there is not one christian controlled country not in the grip of rampant ideological violence and disruption then we have the fact that the people on Manus paid out tens of thousand of dollars to get brought to Aus shores and they weren’t poverty stricken and passed through many countries of their own cultural beliefs to get here.

    Whilst decent people of their countries and beliefs sit in camps waiting to be selected for re-homing from the problems they are fleeing, they bring with them in their culture and deranged beliefs.

    So nothing can or will change and we will see an increase in violent attrition as more and more ideological concepts ideological humanity clings to, collapse around them.

    These people have been offered free trips back to their countries, money to be repatriated and provided with medical, accommodation and our money, yet they still trashed the place and turned the locals again them, which is what happens wherever these primitive-minded misfits go.

    #16 … a great representation of all that’s wrong with world society, no answers, just denial, abusive attacks and a refusal to accept the viewable evidenced reality.

    Your reply is a true indication of where we are headed and why we have no hope of turning things around as the world is overrun by those with your violent god cult attitude of destroy all who oppose us.

    It’s the same as saying god is love as you shoot your cult opponents, and that is seen throughout every god nutter community. The reality is always the opposite to what ideologues claim, so attacking those willing to say it as it really is, is your only form of evidence supporting your claims.

    For your information, I lived on the streets of a large city from the age of 8 because of the treatment received from my god cult family and their abusive organisation. No support, everyone including police and welfare against me, and always on the run to keep ahead of them.

    You learn a lot about human nature and what length cloned slaves of the god cult will go to to get their way, and all I’m doing is pointing out the reality and all you’re doing is reinforcing the delusion.

    When you are dealing with those who believe in mythical beings, and are prepared to inflict violence of any form upon those who oppose their claims, you know you are dealing with incredibly mentally deranged humans, who are by definition, pathological liars and can never be trusted.

    How can you trust or believe those who claim a mythical war god is real, even though its followers have indulged in never ending war, suppression, abusive slaughter, genocide and murder throughout its entire history.

    They claim it is a god of love, yet within the mythical stories they grovel over, yahweh states on a number of occasions that he is the god of war and one of many gods.

    So bringing any of these people into our country is a recipe for disaster and we see that in the ethnic crime rates, and the entire world wherever these primitive minds are.

    The replies in this thread and others reveal how many have a death wish and are prepared to not see the true reality – just what they want to see – and it’s all illusionary.

  50. philll Parsons

    November 27, 2017 at 9:27 am

    Several commentators have expressed expertise on the lives and motives of some asylum seekers and without question are ready to inflict, on those held in offshore detention by Australia, almost any trial by denial and omission to get two outcomes – no more can come and those we hold go away, but not to Aotearoa – New Zealand.

    One cannot measure any people on the behaviour of a few as #16 points out. Trump’s UIS said the new intake would open in October17 and now a month later nothing. By now 600 could have been moved to ANZ from either place.

    Time to bring them here and to open a proper pathway for asylum seekers that they can feel assured will treat them in a timely way.

    With only Nauru left I am surprised the boats have not recommenced to swamp the barrier. Turnbacks must have impacted so now we have control time to take more through the front door.

  51. Robin Charles Halton

    November 27, 2017 at 12:58 am

    #14, Ian Lovell, I agree, queue jumping is not the way to approach the Australian authorities if one wants to be a part of this democratic nation!

    At 24.75 Million people in one of the driest nations on earth is already gambling with its capacity to sustain the population growth, especially in big cities like Melbourne and Sydney where recent immigrants tend to flock.

    With global populations already beyond sustainable capacity, Australia needs to first of all seriously rein in population growth and then for political stability pay more attention to its racial mix as it did previously after WWII into the 1960’s.

  52. abs

    November 26, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    tony #10 … how easy it is to buy into the demonising hey?

    never known what it is like to be in that situation (but hey, not having any detailed information didn’t stop you arrogantly opining)

    you’re such a bright spark, you should have no dramas backing up the statements in your rant with evidence?

    BTW, the drunken, bogan, violent, toxic ego driven, white male portion of australia is doing a good job of destroying culture on it’s own, thank you

  53. abs

    November 26, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    Ian #14… “Most were influential citizens in their own country that fled with dollars in hand to try to buy freedom”

    you have evidence of this?? or is this a baseless slur on people not in a position to defend themselves??

    geez, in terms of buying the propaganda perpetuated by the ignorant or disingenuous, you’ve gone hook, line and sinker, eh tiger?

  54. Ian Lovell

    November 26, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    I have zero empathy for these queue jumpers. Most were influential citizens in their own country that fled with dollars in hand to try to buy freedom. They were all taken for a ride (literally too) by the boat owners knowing the chance of landing on Xmas island or anywhere else was zero. Instead of following many of their countrymen and women by going through the legal process they set sights for our great land. They crossed many countries that they could easily have sought safe haven in, but continued on in hope of Australia. I hope when they return home they tell all and sundry “Far out, don’t go there, no chance of getting in”.

    I do however, hold out dearly for those in camps around the world patiently waiting for resettlement – but not these queue jumpers. They will be most welcome in our country and if they have nothing to hide they will bring all documentation with them – unlike the boat riding queue jumpers.

  55. Russell

    November 26, 2017 at 7:34 pm

    Re #10
    Sorry Tony, but they are only there because Australia illegally invaded, occupies and still bombs the crap out of their countries.

    Where do you get this crap from? “They have been given every opportunity and offered money to go home, somewhere else or settle there.”

    I suppose you think those fleeing Myanmar are useless economic refugees as well?

  56. Russell

    November 26, 2017 at 7:30 pm

    What a disgraceful and shameful state of affairs we have in Australian politics currently!

    The poorest excuse for a government hell bent on selling the country to the lowest overseas bid and destroying the planet while treating people they have displaced from their own countries in harm’s way.

    And a gutless opposition who is complicit in their deafening silence.

    While the Greens are no better with their meek absence.

    And what’s the most important (or only) issue all these useless pricks can concentrate on? Gay fucking marriage!

  57. Jack Nimble

    November 26, 2017 at 4:49 pm

    Re # 10 … totally agree. A friend of mine living in the western suburbs of Sydney tells me it has become a nightmare living there with the cops too scared to go anywhere near the place while fearing for their own safety.

    J B Nimble.

  58. Tony Stone

    November 26, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    Like the majority of Australians, don’t feel any shame or pity for the deranged ideological economic invaders on Manus.

    They have been given every opportunity and offered money to go home, somewhere else or settle there. Yet they have destroyed the place, rioted and caused a lot of problems for the local people. They act the opposite to what respectable decent sane humans would in that situation, who were looking for compassion and shelter.

    They would get a much better response if they were humble, cooperative and lived quietly, plus offered to help and contribute to the local community.

    But no, like all crazy ideologues, they have to make noise, disrupt, make stupid demands and destroy everything they come across, in the ridiculous hope it will get them what they want.

    No wonder they don’t feel safe there, but it’s a situation they created themselves with their bizarre demands. Their ilk already in our country are just as disruptive and useless. Even though they are getting a free ride from the Aus and PNG people.

    Who would want disgusting destructive abusive nutters like them in any sane society, except for the deluded PC crowd, determined to destroy Aus society and turn into a basket case, just like we are seeing happening overseas everywhere these nutters go and the insane PC crowd support them.

  59. Chris

    November 26, 2017 at 1:56 pm

    John Howard’s legacy, wot a cant.

  60. Teresa Maddox

    November 26, 2017 at 10:25 am

    NO acceptable or justified excuses for treating people like this regardless of policy, and definitely not a fair go for these poor souls!

  61. john hayward

    November 25, 2017 at 5:43 pm

    It was only 70 odd years ago that we had seemingly the ultimate lesson on what unbridled conservatism is like – and have forgotten it completely.

    This time, the shame, the cruelty, the wasted billions, is all about making a party of banal hucksters look imposing.

    John Hayward

  62. Nikala Sim

    November 25, 2017 at 1:45 pm

    UPDATE ON #MANUS

    Protests will be held around Australia today so find the time to join one and add your voice to the cry for freedom for the refugees in Papua New Guinea and Nauru.

    I mention Nauru because the 1200 babies, children, women and men there are too often left out of discussion.

    I also mention Nauru because interviews for resettlement to the United States have begun once again.

    I greet this news with scepticism not relief.

    The latest statement from New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is they will not negotiate around Australia.

    In simpler terms – New Zealand will not negotiate directly with Papua New Guinea.

    They will negotiate only with Australia.

    Australia has clearly said it will honour the US deal before it negotiates with any other countries for resettlement.

    I think therefore, we will see another paltry amount of refugees settled to the US to reinforce this agreement and then another very long wait.

    It is important to refer to the conversation between US President Donald Trump and Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

    Please have a close read of this …

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/full-transcript-donald-trump-and-malcolm-turnbull-telephone-conversation-20170803-gxp13g.html

  63. John Biggs

    November 24, 2017 at 11:41 am

    A moment of absolute shame for Australia. Dutton is over the edge.

    His lies have been mounting but yesterday claiming that the refugees have “a butler and a serving maid each” is such arrant nonsense I am astonished that he hasn’t been sacked for preaching such stupid filth. It can only mean Turnbull and Bishop and the rest are as bad as he is.

    Surely Australia has never seen such a lying, cruel, self-absorbed government.

  64. Russell

    November 24, 2017 at 9:52 am

    What an absolutely shameful disgrace! The same persecution levelled against Indigenous Australians is exported around the world by the Australian Government.

    What’s the point of the UN if they do nothing?

  65. Chris

    November 24, 2017 at 6:25 am

    Mmm ah, err, er, ah, hah, err, ah, I do not speak Mandarin at dinner, nor talk to any Chinese in the room, err, ah, ah ah, he could not talk strayan so I had this photo taken at the door err, ah, have you ever seen me lost for words or adjectives, its err ah Bills fault, besides those birds on Manus tell lies, Dullus Dutton is as truthful as me and when err ah, ah ah err people say otherwise I donate my millions to the LPON and accept the bribe for the power (renewable I hope) in Queensland where the LPON may err ah blame me for a state result.
    Err, ah.
    He speak little English!

    Dutton and Turdbull are cants.

  66. Tim Thorne

    November 23, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    Behrouz Boochani for Australian of the Year!

    Dutton has probably by now convinced the Abbott supporters that he can out-Abbott Abbott and deserves the leadership when Malcolm is toppled next month.

  67. Jane Salmon

    November 23, 2017 at 8:16 pm

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