Tasmanian Times

Economy

NATION: Abbott’s Direct Action increases carbon emissions. Bugging, trade, Arctic 30

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This pic from A Reader

Mercury: Rallies put heat on Abbott

AN analysis of the Coalition’s direct action climate change policy suggests it will result in Australia substantially increasing its carbon emissions by 2020 rather than reducing them below 2000 levels.

A Climate Action Tracker policy brief suggests while Labor’s emissions trading scheme would enable Australia to cut emissions by five per cent on 2000 levels, the Abbott government’s policy won’t meet the Kyoto target.

“The Abbott government’s proposed direct action program lacks the resources to meet the five per cent from 2000 reduction goal and instead could lead to emissions of about 12 per cent above 2000 levels by 2020,” the policy brief states.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott on yesterday introduced into parliament a package of bills to repeal Labor’s carbon price.

He’s vowed to replace it with direct action focusing on storing carbon in soil and vegetation.

The policy brief, jointly produced by Climate Analytics, Ecofys and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, suggests such carbon sequestration activities are “highly uncertain and unlikely to be viable”.

“(But) our most recent analysis confirms that Australia’s current legislation – if continued – would be sufficient to meet its unconditional (five per cent) pledge.”

Climate Analytics director Bill Hare said the carbon price would have bent Australia’s upwards emissions curve downwards for the first time.

Its repeal and replacement with a policy that goes against the science will instead see a likely re-carbonisation of the power sector, he said.

– See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/direct-action-to-increase-emissions-by-2020-analysis-says/story-e6frg6xf-1226759510593#sthash.barN9LcZ.dpuf

Times of India: 2013 to be among top 10 warmest years

Guardian: Canada reveals climate stance with praise for Australian carbon tax repeal Canada discourages other industrialised nations from following through on their own climate change commitments

The Age: Typhoon Haiyan: This is a climate crime

news.com.au: AUSTRALIA has won its third “fossil of the day” award at the UN climate talks in Warsaw, as international environment groups attempt to embarrass the Abbott government on the world stage over its decision to scrap the carbon tax.

MEANWHILE,

ABC: Controversial CHOGM closes with show of unity on poverty, trade

AND,

Bill Mitchell on the Debt Ceiling debate: The pantomime continues

Peter Whish-Wilson: Peter Whish-Wilson: What else does Abbott have to hide?

The Age: Indonesia recalls ambassador to Australia over phone tapping

ABC: Activist’s wife pleads with Abbott

Andrew Wilkie: Abbott must intervene

Nicholas Reece, SMH: Behold one of history’s greatest policy failures Abbott’s decision to abolish the price on carbon is bizarre.

Indonesian friendship key to Asian Century, Fairfax here Fixing our fractured relationship with Indonesia in the wake of phone-tapping revelations is in the national interest, and a matter of urgency, says Tim Lindsey.

Globe and Mail: First of Greenpeace activists given bail in Russia walks free AS … As Tasmania’s Colin Russell continues to languish in gaol, despite wife’s plea, Mercury here

• Donald Badman, in Comments: The heading says NATION, so I reckon that includes cricket… so I’ll share with you what I just sent ot the ACB: “You are now a truly mongrel lot, driven only by greed!! The ABC has been broadcasting Cricket since 1924 and you deny them rights to broadcast on digital and only after last minute negotiations did you allow analogue through local stations. You have now plumbed new depths of selective greed and the “ME” generation mentality. Not everything in this life is about making a quick $$$. A very sad day for the public of Australia, any thinking person does not want to be constantly bombarded by adds for the hideous Big Macs which in its consumption is the antithesis of what the players are, fit health specimens. Bet it would not happen with the BBC????”

• Ian, in Comments: Am very concerned re Australia getting into the TPP. This short video gives some insight into it.

ABC: PM Tony Abbott receives letter from Indonesian president Yudhoyono over spying stoush

ABC, AFP: Greenpeace protests Russia jailings in Warsaw tower stunt

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25 Comments

25 Comments

  1. Basil Fitch

    November 27, 2013 at 12:15 am

    #24 as you don’t like the facts your ‘comeback’ is a ‘one liner’.

    What have you to say of your precious Liberal Party’s latest, dangerous, inexperienced, tactless comments made regarding the Chinese Govt’s newly declared air space in the East China Sea?

    Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has had an angry rebuke from the Chinese Govt., risking damaging bilateral ties, plus causing another diplomatic headache for the Abbott Government in Asia.

    To date not one Liberal Minister has been able to handle their portfolio, it has evolved into a serious situation. Basil

  2. TGC

    November 25, 2013 at 12:10 am

    #23 Is that a “let’s go back to Julia-or Kevin?”

  3. Basil Fitch

    November 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Not only but also:- A few of Abbott’s Liberal broken promises in just 90days- interesting reading from Independent Australia net/politics/Abbott’s broken commitments.
    . 1st week with Yolngu
    ‘You have to make departures from principle..’

    . Stop The Boats
    ‘People are arriving in Aust by Boat..’

    . Relations with Regions
    ‘Things I said in Opposition, better left
    unsaid’

    . National Broadband Network
    ‘Technology is not ideological Issue’

    . Foreign Minister’s 1st Trip Abroad
    ‘She hasn’t visited Papua-New Guinea’

    . UN Security Council
    ‘Julie Bishop Rewriting History’

    . Returning Budget to Surplus
    ‘Hockey said surplus 2015-16. Now saying
    you would be a fool to predict when’

    . Reducing Debt
    ‘We will get budget under control, cut waste
    and start reducing debt’

    . Justifying Debt Ceiling
    Now asking to increase debt from $300 billion
    to $500 billion’

    . Reporting Budget Position
    ‘To ensure honesty & transparency, further
    reforms reporting fiscal position’

    . Toowoomba Range Bypass
    ‘Bypass $1.7 million, govt said $130 million’

    . Respect Tony Abbott Mandate
    ‘I trust Electricity Bill Shorten will
    support Carbon Tax Legislation’.

    Along with yesterday (Sun 24 Nov) Abbott axes School Funding already flowing to parents, from Labor initiative (Catholic Schools not happy).
    ‘Family Benefits & School Kids Package Indexation axed Ned Kelly Abbott. (robbing poor to pay rich!). Basil

  4. Leonard Colquhoun

    November 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    It’s a bit like that observation doing the rounds about opinions & arseholes: spying is a bit like shitting – every nation does it because they have to.

    Anyone in TT-land who reckons that we should not is one, most, or even all of the following (and, it could be said, should leave the conversation):

    ~ naïve or

    ~ ignorant;

    ~ starry-eyed or

    ~ delusional;

    ~ devious or

    ~ dishonest;

    ~ or treacherous, even traitorous; or

    ~ just plain stupid.

    Any government which does NOT practice espionage is betraying its own people and endangering its own security in the same way as any government which cedes control of its borders to foreigners.

  5. Raymond

    November 22, 2013 at 9:43 am

    The Greens Lets thank them

    With out the heavy Laws the CO2 levels never got so high in China and India and other 3rd world countries where their is no EPA the real people who knows what to Do in Job not people Protesting costing Australia Jobs and homes and and familes broken homes why Don’t Greens stay out of things they don’t know nothing about and let people who is trained do job where is jail for people brake and enter on Land marks and pirvate Properties why act as Babies we just fill sorry for your poor acting ask Grown up

  6. John Gratton Wilson

    November 20, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Good Morning Mr Abbott,

    The very recent ‘spat’ between Indonesia & Australia over the absolute stupidity of our ‘security’ system, provides an excellent opportunity to re-cast our relationship with Indonesia COMPLETELY !

    Let’s acknowledge, we ‘don’t talk the same language’. Theirs is a society that exists on bribery & corruption – let’s face the facts – money is the only thing that ‘talks’ in Indonesia.

    On the issue of asylum seekers, the military & police (&, in consequence, the Government), are making too much money for any serious attempts to address the issue to appease Australian concerns. It is well known that both the Indonesian military & police are part of the problem, even transporting prospective ‘boat people’ to their chosen vessels, for departure.

    The current circumstance between our nations is not likely to be improved next year, when SBY is required to step down in favor of a new (unknown, & very likely nationalistic) President.

    It is quite apparent that SBY, and the country, is run by the military, as it has been since independence from the Dutch in the late 1940’s. It is a pseudo-democracy in name only, with a sordid history of military expansionism. Firstly in West Papua in 1962, followed closely by the Malaysian ‘Confrontation’ (during which dozens of Australians lost their lives), with the East Timor invasion of 1975 ‘the icing on the cake’ – where at least 400,000 people were slaughtered !

    As a nation, we have stood by and let this atrocious butchery go on ‘on our doorstep’, in the instance of West Papua & Timor-Leste, actively supporting their military, in using Australian taxpayer’s funds to train them & supplying them with sophisticated weapons to wreak appalling havoc upon their victims.

    It is time for Australia to ‘bite the bullet’ & support the recent call in the UN General Assembly by the new Prime Minister of Vanuatu, Moana Kalosil, for UN Special Investigators to be sent to West Papua to follow-up on the ongoing human rights abuses (read genocide) in the colony (my description). Also, importantly, to report on the political status of West Papua. Given the farce that was the UN sponsored (an Indonesian military run) Act of Free Choice in 1969, many in legal circles regard the colony as still being a UN Protected Territory. It is widely acknowledged that the supposed vote for self-determination for indigenous Melanesian West Papuans was nothing other than a sham vote, set to appease the Cold War & Indonesian circumstance at the time. These innocent people continue to be denied their human rights, indeed, according to the very conservative Amnesty International figures, 100,000 West Papuans have been slaughtered by the Indonesian authorities since the UN allowed them control of the colony in 1963. We, Australia, have been a close party to this ongoing genocide from the very beginning. Internal West Papuan figures record that number at over 500,000 ! And we call this government a ‘friend’ !

    It is time to call a spade ‘a spade’ ! The Indonesians involved in the killings, etc, in West Papua & Timor-Leste should be brought to account in the appropriate international human rights courts, for their crimes against humanity. For us, Australia, to not act in this matter, is to acknowledge complicity in these crimes.

    It is time to be rid of the trainer wheels Mr Abbott, and step up into the real world against this supposed friendly neighbour of ours ! Like your mentor, John Howard, in the East Timorese circumstance in the late 1990’s.

    Have you the guts to do the right thing by them and us ?

    Yours,

    JGW

  7. John Groves

    November 20, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    Straighten the ABC its Leaning a bit to the Left

    After the recent release of the phone tapping allegations by the Guardian and the ABC news outlets after allegedly sitting on the allegations for months only to be released shortly after the new Government is sworn in. The new Federal Government needs to hold a serious discussion as what to do about the Left leaning bias of the National Broadcaster.

    The Abbott led Liberal Government needs to find a way to balance out the ABC or it has to be privatised. There are many out there that may argue the ABC is not biased but a quick check of all of the ABC’s main presenters and reporters paint a very Left leaning picture. You only have to follow the anti Liberal pro Climate Change agenda in the news stories to get the point not a day goes by without some reference to “man made Climate Change” with not so much as one story from any anti Climate Change scientists, yes there are plenty of them out there.

    Media Watch would have to be one of the most biased pro Labor/climate change supporting mouth pieces in the country. Q&A’s Tony Jones would not be far behind in the Lefty stakes add to that Fran Kelly, Anthony Green, Annabel Crab, Barrie Cassidy and the list goes on and on.

    Tony Abbott needs to grab the bull by the horns and read the riot act to the ABC and remind the ABC’s about its often breached rarely followed Charter. Abbott either has to move to balance out the ABC by removing some of the Left leaning elements or sell it off.

    I like many other Australians want Mr Abbott to take a hard line stance on the ABC by first of all sacking Mark Scott and putting the rest of the ABC’s board and staff on notice “straighten up follow the charter present fair and balanced reporting of news issues or your gone”.

    John Groves

  8. Ian

    November 20, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    Am very concerned re Australia getting into the TPP. This short video gives some insight into it.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/node/283494

  9. Donald Badman

    November 20, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    The heading says NATION, so I reckon that includes cricket… so I’ll share with you what I just sent ot the ACB:

    “You are now a truly mongrel lot, driven only by greed!! The ABC has been broadcasting Cricket since 1924 and you deny them rights to broadcast on digital and only after last minute negotiations did you allow analogue through local stations. You have now plumbed new depths of selective greed and the “ME” generation mentality. Not everything in this life is about making a quick $$$. A very sad day for the public of Australia, any thinking person does not want to be constantly bombarded by adds for the hideous Big Macs which in its consumption is the antithesis of what the players are, fit health specimens. Bet it would not happen with the BBC????”

  10. Ros Barnett

    November 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Thanks John Hawkins at 15 – I do love a bit of ad hominem bosh in the argument.

    This may be a bit off topic but the rally was just sooooo booooorrrrrrinnngg I was snoring half way through. I miss the passion and excitement of the seventies and eighties. Where were all the young people? This is a HUGE issue and it should be riveting minds like the anti-nuclear debate did during the cold war.

    What do we want? When do we want it? A well organised event, with good speakers. A beginning – sets out the agenda, stirs the blood, a middle – that is punchy and has all the good speakers with the great punch lines, and an end – a call to arms being some sort of action or initiative.

    That disastrous wank about using our smart phones to sign a petition, send a message – yeah that works for an audience average age 86! Not.

    Julie Collins could do with a voice coach, she drones so. The bloke from the firies should have been the big punch – he was good even if reading out a national statement. Wilkie! Nice bloke but couldn’t stir a cup. You have to deliver those kind of speeches so that you give people a reason to cheer every few sentences – get them energised.

    And the statue – where were the set dressers? All that orange made me think I’d stumbled on the hari Krishna lunch party. There should have been a high tide mark half way up the plinth and a PFD on him. Give the TV cameras something to point at that just might light up the boring bloody news.

  11. John Hawkins

    November 19, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    When historians look back on Tasmania at the start of this century a good source of contemporary thinking will be the blogs on TT.

    The TGC’s of this world speak for those who left skool barli able to rid or rite, ence watch the sops on the tel, cood never get a job and liv life on the dole.

    It is alwiss someones else is falt.

    They vote Lib four a bit of class but fill the form in rong!

    They ink just like Trev.

  12. Keith Antonysen

    November 19, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    No 10, Trevor, maybe what you don’t realize is that it is a responsibility of governments to provide an overarching policy of tackling climate change. Labor provided a carbon tax which the Abbott gang are trying to tear down; they propose to replace it with direct action which is a sham.
    It is recognized that climate change is an anthropomorphic made disaster by scientists. How would we be if CFCs had not been banned; Trevor, another anthropomorphic problem in relation to the ozone layer. Trevor in the past you have written comments showing a climate denier attitude, hence the comments below.
    Trevor; what data do you have to show that acidification is not happening in oceans. Remember, oceans are taking up carbon dioxide.
    Firies are saying that climate change is something they acknowledge happens. How are you progressing with picking up data from satellites? You must be pretty busy also taking readings from glaciers which are disappearing.
    Have you been taking stock of fish species that are moving into waters which in the past were too cold for the particular species. A spokesperson for abalone fishers stated today that the quotas for abalone have been reduced on the East Coast of Tasmania due to climate change. So Trevor, you would have been measuring ocean currents also and measuring their temperature. You would be spending time collecting data from thousands of buoys that are taking measurements in various ocean environments.
    You must at least have been measuring the proportions of particular gases in the atmosphere. You would be assessing jet streams which are important in creating weather patterns.
    You must have been pretty busy to come to the conclusion you have Trevor: after all, it is thousands of scientists from a number of disciplines that have collected data to show that climate change is real.
    It struck me that if you do not believe the data that scientists have found; then, using the analogy of driving a car, you regulate your speed by feel rather than what the speedo says. A modern car feels as though it’s creeping along and driving along at less speed than the speedo shows. Climate deniers are not looking at the speedo.

  13. Bob Kendra

    November 19, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    What selfish comments to be swamping Tasmanian Times at 1, 6, 8 and 10 in this forum alone. That’s 4 out of 11 from one ultra-regressive writer with apparently little more to do than shovel bucket-loads of his ideology right across TT’s democratic forums, grabbing the focus simply because his rubbish needs to be debunked. Would that The Examiner’s forum which features this writer and his ideology were open and democratic like those of Tasmanian Times!

    Meanwhile, we wear this deluge just because the writer finds that he is not stopped from dishing out – with such apparent relish for his unfair advantage in gaining exposure across more than one publication.

    The biased censorship of The Examiner’s forum has been brazenly denied by the writer successful in seizing dominance in that newspaper and on TT as well. God help the ensuing narrow political debate that holds back Tasmania. The dilemma is, ignore, to allow breathing space for others and let the backward claims stand, or risk dragging debate into the morass of one writer’s ideology and prolific responses.. I know, I’m leaving myself wide open to the accustomed vicious, sarcastic one-liner!

  14. Sue DeNim

    November 19, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Well TGC at number 10 it looks like you have a few solutions there yourself at number 6.

    I assume you were being tongue-in-cheek and that any such changes would be ludicrous to you, but they may be exactly what we need to do.

    We need to rip the bandaid off fast and take the pain now if we are ever to have any hope of regaining relative climate stability.

    Taking lead and making these changes in the face of them perhaps not making a lot of difference in our generation is exactly what we need to show how serious we are and inspire others to follow our lead. Everyone waiting around to see who moves first and be a follower gets us nowhere. Considering we are the highest per capita emitters and one of the largest coal exporters, this is a good case for us being the first movers.

    Any rejection based on the excuse of ‘costs’ now are nothing compared to what it will cost us to stay comfortable in future. If the kinds of changes you mention throw us into emergency situations, then we deal with those internally in the same way we deal with emergency aid situations in other countries.

    Just saying we won’t see the benefits so why do anything is selfish and deranged in the extreme and exactly what keeps perpetuating the current drastic inaction.

    Also continuing to use the term ‘climate change’ is obfuscational and unhelpful because it leads to the argument that climate changes naturally and regularly (as you continue to perpetuate yourself). What we are really talking about is abnormal, accelerated climate change, due to a large atmospheric carbon injection over a relatively short time frame (in earth time), the likes of which the planet has NEVER endured.

    Yes the cheques in the mail and we will see more extreme climate events no matter what we do, but to avoid no return tipping points and runaway negative climate feedback loops is THE whole point of trying to do something.

  15. Robin Halton

    November 19, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    #9 Excellent article by Gillian Blair, it reflects the view of many Australian voters who care about the future of this country.

    Without sustainable agriculture, first of all for our domestic needs, then then we are facing both an economic and socially unstable future.
    Tolerance to the extent of foreign ownership is becoming a major issue.
    Recently the PM indicated a deal with Indonesia, land could be bought up in far N Aust to raise cattle close by for their fresh meat market.

    I am hopeful the PM was only offering a sweetener of some kind or he was totally off guard with his comments!

    The recent events point to Indonesia as a some what a hostile neighbour, of cause we snoop on each other, thats not even news, but we should not entertain them owning Australian freehold land.

    Moving away from the Indonesian issue, the wider Asian invasion of Australia needs to be addressed at least all agricultural land needs to remain in Australian hands for the sake of national security.

    The PM appears to have made some headway with Sri Lanka with the supply of two surplus Patrol Boats for their Navy to avert that other invasion problem, uninvited foreigners arriving on our shores.

    Where Abbott is not making progress with the people smuggler issue with Indonesia then the move with Sri Lanka could be a wiser choice to slow down the practice of the global movement of people, especially those from the increasing waves of troubled Muslim countries who do not accept the ways of Western culture.

    By keeping our population numbers under control should result in a more stable social order as well as providing us as a more sustainable society.

  16. TGC

    November 19, 2013 at 11:06 am

    What precisely does #7 think can be done that is a sure-fire (no pun) way of influencing the “climate” and if there is such can he assure everybody it will create fewer problems than “letting rip”?
    And has he patented it?

  17. Gillian Blair

    November 19, 2013 at 7:00 am

    The Gutting of Australia

    The need for an update on foreign land ownership data is a subject that all thinking Australians should be concerned about. Rather than worry about an invasion by asylum seekers, we need to be concerned about the takeover of housing and food-producing land by foreign countries and corporations. This sell-off is comparable to an invasion by foreign troops. We should all be talking with our state senators about food security issues, and this invasion by stealth.

    It is time to call a halt to the sale of land, housing, and infrastructure to overseas buyers. Very few countries allow this to happen.

    Foreign buyers have artificially raised the price of housing stocks that were not abundant in the first place. As a result, many young Australian families now find they cannot afford the security of house ownership, and they may be paying high rents for basic housing for the rest of their lives.

    In a similar way, land and infrastructure have been disappearing into foreign ownership. In the last few years, the Labor government has allowed land, water, and infrastructure such as ports, silos, and railways, to be quietly sold off to overseas corporations. It is highly unlikely that these assets will ever be back in Australian ownership.

    This process of gutting Australia is set to escalate dramatically under the Coalition.

    It is particularly important that fertile agricultural land, water, and our infrastructure are kept in Australian ownership, or we will all end up paying a high price for imported foods of lower quality from heavily polluted sources such as China. The cost of imported food will rise in the next few years, as (despite the claims of vested interests) oil supplies are dwindling and freight costs are becoming more expensive. It makes more sense to keep productive land in Australian hands to grow food for Australians.

    It seems that the Labor Party and the Coalition do not take seriously the issue of the sale of our land and assets to overseas interests. On 14th November, a motion (outlined below) by Senator John Madigan was put to the house.

    Although the motion aimed at protecting Australian farming land and water supplies was supported by Senator Nick Xenophon and the Greens, the Labor Party and the Coalition did not support it. The government has said it will provide a review through the Foreign Investment Review Board on the issue of foreign ownership. However, words are cheap and no timeframe has been set. It is time that all members of the government realised that there is great concern amongst voters about the selling off of Australia.

    Unless voters and farmers phone or write to our Ministers, Senators and Members of Parliament right now, stating our opposition to the sale of land and houses to overseas interests, then we will suffer the effects in a few short years.

    Always remember that the word “minister unto” means “to serve”. Ministers in government are meant to be our servants, elected by us to do our will. At present most of our elected members of parliament are only serving the needs of multinational corporations and foreign countries.

    Gillian Blair
    Secretary, Sustainable Agriculture & Communities Alliance, Inc.,
    Panmure, Vic. 3265.

    Motion:
    That the Senate—
    (a) notes that:
    (i) in 2010 the Australian Bureau of Statistics published the Agricultural Land and Water Ownership survey (December 2010), which indicated that 11.3 per cent of Australian agricultural land was foreign-owned,
    (ii) according to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation’s Vote Compass, a significant majority of Australians want to ‘further restrict foreign ownership of Australian agricultural land’, and
    (iii) Australian agricultural land is a national treasure and should not be treated as a global commodity; and
    (b) calls on the Government to table, no later than the first sitting day of 2014, an updated Agricultural Land and Water Ownership survey, outlining foreign ownership of Australian agricultural land as at June 2013.

  18. TGC

    November 18, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    #2 Presumably Indonesia is one of “homicidal regime(s)they (refugees) are fleeing”
    But if it is not then why don’t those who have left another country seek to live in Indonesia-generally the country closest ( more ways than just geographically) to their homeland.

  19. Keith Antonysen

    November 18, 2013 at 10:44 pm

    No 6, TGC so we just let climate rip without trying to make any changes? I won’t be around to see the dire consequences of climate change but my children will, they happen to be in their 20s.
    We have a responsibility to leave the planet in as good a shape as possible for future generations.

  20. TGC

    November 18, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Long bow there #5 but if it is so then it would appear there’s nothing we can do about it as CO2 levels will continue to rise well into the next century- and maybe forever- who knows?
    If Australia immediately closed down every CO2 emitting installation- from coal-fired energy production, a wide range of industries, all motor vehicles off the road, all cattle slaughtered …and so forth and so forth the is the theory then that no-one alive today will see any positive effect and sea levels will still “rise bv multiple metres” (Is there any indication of how many metres?) And under this theory we are already “hand(ing) on a poisoned challice”
    As to the lessons of the past? One ‘lesson’ teaches us that climate has constantly been in flux (change) It’s not possible for the ‘future’ to give lessons.

  21. phill Parsons

    November 18, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Indeed #4. Typhoon Haiyan was the result of the warming brought about by CO2 emitted 30 to 40 years ago. Why, because there is a lag time before the gas actually warms the atmosphere.

    It will be between 2020 and 2030 when we cross what many scientists believe is the safe level of 350ppm.

    Today’s 400ppm is not heating the atmosphere until mid-century.

    The point TGC is that these warming values are unavoidable. The atmosphere will heat up.

    Only the stupid ignore the lessons of the past. Sea level will be rising by multiple metres, climates will change markedly.

    Refugees, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Revolutions driven by food prices because of the impacts of climate you have seen across North Africa starting with food prices in Tunisia. They will not lessen.

    TGC and I will be dead but I don’t wish to hand on a poisoned chalice or see my humble efforts come to nought. What about you?.

  22. max

    November 17, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    1 # There is absolutely no logic in the “pro tax for climate-change-” model.

    That is a forceful statement so what is your answer, what should we do? A carbon tax would not have prevented typhoon Haiyan nor the next several hundred of these major weather events but to continue down the path of unlimited carbon proliferation is to see what is a major event now, become the norm. Unless you can give an alternative then you have no right to condemn off hand the people who are willing to at least try to make a difference.

  23. Carol Rea

    November 17, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    #1 TGC – why won’t you come out and say who you are? If you have such wisdom to impart why not own it?
    Think on these and then respond

    – Australia could be carbon-proofing our industries by clever and financially prudent methods. The Clean Energy Finance Corporation was commercially viable and making a difference. What is wrong with that? http://www.cleanenergyfinancecorp.com.au/media/63369/factsheet-cefc-and-the-budget_lr.pdf

    – Australia is the biggest exporter of coal in the world yet we have abrogated our responsibility to advance commercially and environmentally viable carbon capture and storage technologies. Imagine if we exported our coal and alongside that assisted with CCS technology. Maybe like this? http://www.theaustralian.com.au/innovationchallenge/finalist-david-roberts/story-fn9dkrp5-1226756054045

  24. john Hayward

    November 17, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Australia will have to make the stark choice between tackling greenhouse gas emissions and the informed democracy needed to do so, and feeding its growing appetite for the right-wing catharsis promoted by corporate emitters.

    With the Australia in the hands of a loutish gummint that seems to have jettisoned morality altogether, and a majority seemingly happy to send refugees back to the homicidal regime they are fleeing, it looks like Oz is opting for a Lord of the Flies scenario.

    John Hayward

  25. TGC

    November 17, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Now let’s be absolutely frank about this all you people holding up those signs: there are views put forward by some climate change proponents that in order to “stop” and then “retract” climate change the carbon tax should be much closer to $100 a tonne than the $25 or so at present – nothing in most parts of the world!
    Because that won’t happen those placard wavers will say “Quite right” safe in that knowledge.
    Neither would the “climate change” in any lifetime of any of those placardeers – nor their great…..grandchildren be directly affected by such a measure- or any other taxation for that matter.
    There is absolutely no logic in the “pro tax for climate-change-” model

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