An Eric Abetz has been a Liberal Party Tasmanian Senator since 1994. An Erich Abetz was born in Stuttgart on 25/1/1958 and came to Australia with his family on the Castel Felice arriving 22 March 1961. He was issued with a German passport on the 22 July 1971 in Melbourne number C1674055 in which he gave his nationality as German. His mother applied on his behalf for citizenship in September 1974 and was asked to supply his birth certificate and passport, these two documents will be requested for my petition to the High Court.
An Erich Abetz was granted a Certificate of Australian Citizenship No. AC(G) 102404 in his own right, aged 16, by the Government of Australia on 3rd December 1974 in Hobart, I ask, what is the purpose of the (G) in the Citizenship Number? he having sworn the Oath of Allegiance.
The Oath of Allegiance or Affirmation incorporates the words “renouncing all other allegiance” This does not suspend or renounce citizenship. Each individual nation sets the rules as to how an individual citizen can divest themselves of their citizenship. The High Court has determined that the procedures in each specific case must be followed. Senator Abetz has not demonstrated he has met this requirement.
In 1994 an Eric Abetz was elected to a Casual Vacancy in the Senate.
Prior to his nomination Abetz’s obligation by birth, as a dual citizen was to renounce his allegiance to a foreign power in accordance with section 44 of the Australian Constitution. This is not the responsibility of the Australian Government. All naturalised German citizens are equal but those naturalised citizens who hold dual citizenship who wish to stand for the Australian Parliament have to renounce that second citizenship before doing so. A not unexpected requirement.
If you examine the records of the Tasmanian Parliament a joint sitting on 22 February 1994 appointed Abetz to fill a casual vacancy. The Hansard record does not provide the specific information to match each of the requirements of either the Australian Electoral Act nor the several sections of the Australian Constitution. The Tasmanian Parliament cannot produce the paper records supporting the Liberal Party’s nomination of Mr. Abetz to fill the casual vacancy.
Further, Mr Ray Groom the then Tasmanian Premier when nominating a Mr Eric Abetz for the Senate on 22 February 1994 in the Tasmanian Parliament stated “I tender the nomination in writing. It includes the necessary certification that Mr Abetz is a member of the Liberal Party that he is willing to hold the seat if chosen and that he is not disqualified from holding the place in the Senate …”
Where is the evidence that he is qualified – being not disqualified is merely Mr Groom’s opinion, a very strange choice of words indeed. The onus is on the candidates declaration to establish the opposite proposition, that he is qualified. Maybe the short window of weeks involved between nomination and election worried Groom but the die had been cast.
Should you write to the German Embassy, as I have done, to ascertain the citizenship of Abetz, correctly, for privacy reasons, they will not tell you.
A paragraph from the AEC publication Electoral Backgrounder No 2—Parliamentary Report on Section 44 of the Constitution identifies the justification for section 44:
“The purpose of subsections 44(i) and (iv) of the constitution is to protect Australia’s parliamentary system by disqualifying candidates and members of parliament who are at risk, or might appear to be at risk, of allowing conflicts of loyalty to affect their performance as members.”
A further extract demonstrates the seriousness of the issue. In the past eight years there have been two major constitutional challenges in the High Court to the qualifications of elected candidates, the first involving the election of Mr Phil Cleary in the Division of Wills in 1992, and the second involving the election of Ms Jacqueline Kelly in the Division of Lindsay in 1996. Both elected members of the House of Representatives were subsequently disqualified by the High Court, sitting as the Court of Disputed Returns, because they held an office of profit under the Crown, contrary to section 44(iv) of the Constitution, and both cases also raised the issue of foreign allegiance under section 44(i).
Section 44(i) states:
“Any person who is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power… shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a member of the House of Representatives.”
The Cleary case of 1992 showed that “Migrants who become naturalised may keep their original citizenship if their country of origin permits. Though in the past officials did not emphasise this fact, de facto dual citizenship had existed in Australia for a long time. This situation has its origins in international law. In 1930 Australia signed the Hague Convention on Certain Questions relating to the Conflict of Nationality Laws (this treaty came into force in Australia July 1937). This Convention holds that citizenship is a status granted, or revoked, by the nation concerned: Australia cannot deprive a German of their German citizenship just as Germany cannot deprive an Australian of theirs. Migrants who took the Oath of Allegiance before the renunciation phrase was removed in 1986 may have imagined that their public renunciation of all other allegiances meant that they had legally repudiated the citizenship of their country of origin. In 1992 this was made clear to all in the High Court judgments in Sykes v Cleary and Others. After 1992 and Cleary everyone with an interest in citizenship should have known. Abetz is both a lawyer and a barrister, he knows or should of known that the devil is in the detail when he entered the Senate two years later in 1994.
Thus a candidate must be a citizen of Australia and he or she must not be a citizen of any other nation. The Cleary case focused on de facto dual citizenship and made the implications of Section 44(i) clear for all naturalised Australians. Parliament can change Australian Citizenship rules but only the people can change the Constitution.
In the Sue Neales’ article in the Mercury “Legal bid to oust Abetz” Friday July 30th, 2010 ( Linked on Tasmanian Times, HERE ) Erich Abetz states that he wrote to the German authorities in 1993 before he was elected. One can therefore assume that he had sensibly read the then Electoral Backgrounder.
The Electoral Backgrounder No 19 for his 2004 election under which he currently sits in the Senate states: “Information for Dual/Plural Citizens
22. As a consequence of the recommendations of the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs in relation to section 44(i) of the Constitution, the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs (DIMIA) maintains a database on the procedures for renunciation of other citizenship in various countries. The following information on renunciation procedures is drawn from the DIMIA database and is provided to assist intending candidates who hold further citizenship(s) in addition to their Australian citizenship.
United Kingdom
• British citizenship may be renounced with the approval of the Home Secretary. A person must make a declaration of renunciation of the British citizenship on an official form (RNI) which can be lodged at the British High Commission in Canberra.
People’s Republic of China
• Chinese citizenship may be renounced by application to the Ministry of the Public Security. In most circumstances, PRC citizenship is lost upon acquiring a new citizenship but confirmation should be sought from the Embassy of the People’s Republic of China Canberra.
Germany
• German citizenship may be renounced with the approval of the Ministry of Interior: Persons should contact the Embassy of Germany in Canberra.”
I have cited other countries to demonstrate some of the alternatives required by citizens to renounce their citizenship so as to discharge the obligation that the High Court states must be adhered to.
The Neales article continues: “Senator Abetz said he wrote to the German Embassy in 1993, renouncing any lingering claims to German citizenship he might have…. I renounced my German citizenship in that letter, full stop… that letter said that I understood my German citizenship had been forfeited back in 1974 when I became an Australian citizen, but that they should let me know if there was anything further that I needed to do. Senator Abetz said he never heard anything further, leaving him convinced he did not hold dual citizenship that could make his Senate nomination invalid.” Ipso Facto he should have been aware as a then practicing barrister of the implications of the Sykes v Cleary case of 1992.
This would imply that he never received a reply from the German authorities accepting his renunciation of citizenship and confirming that he was no longer a German citizen, he therefore stands condemned by his own hand.
In 1994 the Government of Germany required no action be taken on his becoming an Australian Citizen. I suggest that he has sat knowingly in the Parliament on filling a casual vacancy since 1994 and being elected in 1998 and again 2004. He probably became aware of his problem and the disaster his oversight could create after taking up his seat in 1994 and thought the best answer was to let sleeping dogs lie, unfortunately the obligation arose under Australian Law the moment he sought to become a candidate.
According to his website “About Eric” Abetz has been the Chair of the Senate Legal and Constitutional [Affairs] Legislation Committee, I ask in light of the above, why?
First published, 03.08.10 10:38 am
John Ward
August 2, 2010 at 18:05
A very good question, why Eric?
Every time your whining intonations caused my flesh to creep.I wondered how any, pre-selection panel could put you forward to represent the interest of this state.
Then, I remembered Lyenko Urbanchich a Nazi collaborator who infiltrated the Liberal Party in the 1950s. Urbanchich remained unrepentant about his pro-Nazi past. He died happy in the knowledge that his long campaign to insinuate his and the former liberal candidate, Pauline Hansen’s extremist views, into the liberal policy agenda. That you are continuing the ‘good fight’
will have him resting easy in Valhalla.
Your arrogance, that is, your unfounded conceit seems to be boundless. So it will come as no surprise to you that I am hoping and offering prayers to my god that John Hawkins de Chudleigh is successful in his quest, so we can bless him as a true hero of the people.
Pete Godfrey
August 2, 2010 at 22:13
Great work John, I hope you succeed in bringing this anomaly to light. If you manage to oust this man then I suggest a statue to the upholders of the law in Chudleigh.
Garry Stannus
August 2, 2010 at 22:56
John (#1)
I have no god, but wish your’s every success. Likewise for John’s.
Ben Quin
August 3, 2010 at 00:37
Candidate Abetz and Tasmanian electors should not forget —
The very essence of a successful dealer in antiques it to be certain the provenance of the objects he is dealing.
Mr. Hawkins of Chudleigh is a very successful antiquarian.
Ben Quin
Alpal
August 3, 2010 at 03:11
I’ve read John Hawkins posts with some interest, and was grateful for his reference to both previous posts and to the Sykes v Cleary case.
I had a read of that case, available here:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/1992/60.html
I’ve come to some different conclusions about that case compared to what John Hawkins sets out above. In particular, Hawkins appears to state that if the German Government did not reply to Abetz when he sent his letter of renunciation of his German citizenship then Abetz remained ineligible for the Senate.
I make the following assumptions (amongst others) when considering the matter:
1) Abetz became an Australian citizen on 3 December 1974.
2) Abetz sent a letter to the German embassy in 1993 renouncing his German citizenship – on the chance the 1974 act of becoming an Australian was not enough.
3) Abetz received no reply.
This, in my opinion (I’m not a constitutional lawyer) is enough, at least if Sykes v Cleary remains good law.
The relevant bits of that case are found at Mason, Toohey, McHugh paragraphs 44-55. At 53 it states:
It would be wrong to interpret the constitutional provision in such a way as to disbar an Australian citizen who had taken all reasonable steps to divest himself or herself of any conflicting allegiance.
And at 55 it states:
What amounts to the taking of reasonable steps to renounce foreign nationality must depend upon the circumstances of the particular case. What is reasonable will turn on the situation of the individual, the requirements of the foreign law and the extent of the connection between the individual and the foreign State of which he or she is alleged to be a subject or citizen.
It appears (M,T,M paras 54,55, Deane 31,35, Gaudron 18,25) clear that the Judges considered becoming an Australian citizen and then informing the relevant consulate of a renunciation of previous nationality – as Abetz has apparently done – constitutes “reasonable steps”, regardless of whether or not a reply is received.
John Ward
August 3, 2010 at 03:50
Garry Stannus:
Do you mean god? I’m Dyslectic so I get these things mixed up. I had meant to type DOG!
lmxly
August 3, 2010 at 14:32
This issue fascinates me too, so I did a little digging.
I found the following at http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/en/Infoservice/FAQ/Staatsangehoerigkeit/12-Verlust.html
“How can German citizenship be lost?
A German national who applies for and receives a foreign nationality (except the nationality of one of the EU Member States or Switzerland) loses his/her German nationality. The only way of preventing the loss of German citizenship is if the applicant obtained permission to retain the nationality by the German authorities prior to acquiring the foreign nationality.”
If this is the situation,(and it is repeated on other sites I have searched) then Erica is clearly no longer a German citizen. Are you arguing that when he became an Australian citizen in 1974, that the German law on citizenship was different, and therefore the current law does not apply to him?
Unless you can prove that the German citizenship law in 1974 WAS different, and the current law has not superceded the 1974 law in Erica’s case, then sadly – very sadly – I think you have no case.
The extraordinary thing is that, since the current German citizenship law is apparently so cut and dried, that Erica did not know this; and simply cut all the cackle about writing to the German embassy in 1993 to renounce his citizenship, when in fact he had already lost it in 1974!
William Boeder
August 3, 2010 at 16:25
This entire exposure of the many actions and intrigues initiated by yon Senator Eric Abetz is fair warning that this man is no friend of Tasmania.
To view the ugly amount of fat-cat opportunists aboard the Liberal Party Gray Train should be enough for us all to soundly reject all and anything to do with he and his party.
There are those people in our State that claim this Senator to be of exceptional intellect, sadly this has been put to the best interestes of Fat-Cats generally and those institutions of lesser probity than otherwise acceptable to the people.
Let us all hope that our Australian Constitution will debar such oddly intentioned individuals as the above and see him ejected from all offices of public account and or prominence?
Barry Brannan
August 4, 2010 at 02:18
re #8 it is not so simple because the Mercury article says
“At times in the past 40 years, including the period between 1974 when Senator Abetz became an Australian citizen and when he entered the Senate in 1994, the consular official said it had been necessary for documents to have been signed and returned by the German Government before German citizenship was formally relinquished”
Pensive
August 4, 2010 at 06:11
Reading all this overseas I would like to contribute from memory what might be relevant in this saga:
In about 1986 or 87 a Democrat Senator from Sydney was elected, enjoyed a number of days as a very young Senator and was quickly found to hold British citizenship. He was demoted quick smart. Check it out. Might be useful as a precedent.
Good luck.
Desmond
August 4, 2010 at 12:25
Readers of Alpal contribution item 6 should also read the post of lmxly on 30/07/10 at 02:03 PM item 15 a response to John Hawkins article, I intend to take Senator Abetz to the High Court on the 29th of July.
Clearly contributor Imxly was a person who followed the advice of both the Australian Electoral Commission, contained in the Backgrounder April 2010, and the House of Representative Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs recommending such advice be supplied to candidates.
Imxly was a candidate who was of the same class of allegiance, a subject or citizen of a foreign power, a class that applies to a dual citizen, the same class as Senator Abetz.
Both are of different type than Mr Kardamitsis and Mr Delacretaz who were also disqualified by the High Court in the Sykes case.
The principle that the High Court applied is that candidates must avail themselves of the renunciation procedures of the other country. Greece and Switzerland refuse to accept renunciation claims from their citizens. Therefore the writing of a letter seeking renunciation is accepted as proof in such cases, both of these candidates failed to write such a letter.
For Alpal to assume from the Sykes case that candidates, such as dual citizen Senator Abetz, can follow a procedure of renunciation of their own choice is to act in a manner contrary to the law and to the advice of the AEC.
The issue succinctly put by Imxly
So, it seems to me, the question for Erica is – has he, in signing the candidate nomination form for the Senate in 2010, or in any other year in which he has nominated as a Senate candidate, committed an act of perjury?
Does he know, beyond reasonable doubt, that he taken “all reasonable steps†to renounce his German citizenship? And can he prove that he has done so? (see http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/Backgrounders/files/2010-eb-constitutional-disqual-intending-candidates.pdf)
Cont…
Desmond
August 4, 2010 at 12:26
Cont…
What advice did Candidate Abetz seek and follow to enable him when completing his nomination form that he was qualified given the debate as to his status with John Hawkins has gone on for some years.
The requirements are clear the important ones contained in this extract from the AEC Electoral Backgrounder. April 2010 Advice to Candidates.
3. The purpose of the Backgrounder is to assist intending candidates for election to the Parliament of Australia to ensure that they are legally qualified to nominate and, in particular that they are not disqualified by ss. 43, 44 (i), or 44(iv) of the Constitution.
4. The view of the law presented here is consistent with advice provided to AEC by its legal advisors, but in the final analysis it is for the Courts to decide upon the interpretation of the law in any particular case.
6. In 1997 the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs inquired into the operation of the candidate disqualifications in ss.44 (i), or 44(iv) of the Constitution. One of the Committees recommendations was that the AEC publish a booklet to assist intending candidates to recognise whether they need further legal advice.
7. The AEC publishes a Candidate’s Handbook that provides information on the electoral process for people intending to nominate as candidates in the election. Intending candidates should read the Handbook, as it becomes available prior to each
election, in conjunction with this Backgrounder, which specifically addresses candidate
disqualifications under ss 44(1) of the Constitution.
The Candidate’s Handbook is available from the AEC website at http://www.aec.gov.au or by
phoning 13 23 26.
Candidate nomination
9. Part XIV of the Act governs the process of, and in particular subsection 170 (1) provides the
following:A nomination is not valid unless in the nomination paper, the person nominated:
(b) declares that:
(i) the person is qualified under the Constitution and the laws of the Commonwealth to be elected as a Senator…
Cont …
Desmond
August 4, 2010 at 12:27
Cont …
False or misleading statements
11. Division 137 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth) (the Criminal Code) makes it an offence
to provide false or misleading information or documents in purported compliance with a law of
the Commonwealth, with a maximum penalty of 12 months imprisonment.
Qualifications and disqualifications
12. Candidates intending to nominate for election to the Australian Parliament must ensure that they are qualified, and not disqualified to stand for election under
the provisions of the Act.
15 Intending candidates should also ensure that they are not disqualified by s.44 of the Constitution. The disqualification that most commonly arises are in s. 44(i), relating to dual/plural citizenship;—-
A failure to follow this advice could only lead to the conclusion that Senator Abetz several signings without have satisfied himself that he was, remains and will be qualified to take his seat in July 2011.
But then of course if you have been the Minister for State, responsible for the Commonwealth Electoral Act and a member of the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs he may think its unnecessary to seek the advice of the German Embassy as to his exact since status 1993. The Backgrounder No 19 stated that approval of renunciation from the German Government was required. The Senators current term was conducted using the advice in Backgrounder No 19. Maybe the DPP may have a different view.
Link to Imxly http://oldtt.pixelkey.biz/index.php?/weblog/article/hawko2/show_comments
Christopher Purcell
August 4, 2010 at 15:26
No.6, Alpal; I’m not a lawyer so I can’t see from the information you have supplied, how you arrived at the conclusion that the judges clearly thought that a letter sent to the consulate, constituted “reasonable steps”. Please explain.
lmxly
August 4, 2010 at 17:59
Sorry folks! especially Russell #15. It is certainly the case that many countries do allow the retention of dual citizenship, and some do not allow the renuncialtion of it – from memory Greece is such a country. But Germany is different. To my surprise when I checked the German embassy website, its position is unequivocal.
see http://www.canberra.diplo.de/Vertretung/canberra/en/04/Konsularischer__Service/download__citizenship__law__sept06,property=Daten.pdf
which states
4. Loss of German Citizenship
Please note that a German National who is naturalized abroad (e.g. in Australia) loses
his/her German citizenship automatically through that naturalization. Entering Australian (or
other foreign) armed forces also leads to automatic loss of German citizenship.
However, it is possible to retain German citizenship by applying for a special authorization
(“Beibehaltungsgenehmigungâ€) – if the permission to retain German citizenship is granted, a
foreign nationality may then be acquired without losing the German citizenship.
For further information please contact the Embassy.
So if you don’t believe this, I suggest you contact the Embassy!
As I read this, Erica lost his German citizenship when he took out Australian citizenship in 1974. Full stop. end of story. He has nowhere suggested that he took special steps to retain his German citizenship.
And as far I can discover, the German citizenship law on LOSS of citizenship has not changed since 1974. In 2000 a new law on ACQUIRING citizenship was passed, mainly to enable the many migrants, especially Turkish, who had lived in Germany for 30 years or more, to become German citizens.
It doesn’t mean I support Erica in any way – I’d love to see him taken down, as do many commentors on this stream.
But if John Hawkins is going to launch an expensive High Court challenge, then at least he needs to get the facts straight.
RE #10, I would suggest that the article may be at fault – not unusual for the Mockery – but even so, I think this issue may need further investigation.
My own case, cited by #12, related to holding dual UK and Australian citizenship. There is a process for renunciation, which I followed, according to UK requirements. In Erica’s case, as far as I can tell, the requirements of Germany, the country of his birth, are different – as indeed they are different for many other countries, since each country has its own laws on how citizenship is acquired, and how (if at all) it can be relinquished.
So although S44(i) requires candidates for Federal parliament to be Australian citizens and renounce any other allegiance, how that renunciation can take place depends on the country in question, not the Australian government or constitution.
Michael
August 4, 2010 at 19:29
#15 – Haha, so now you’re trying to say that the German law is wrong? Even when it is there in black and white, stating that it is the exact opposite to what you’re saying.
You state in #15 ‘To lose your foreign citizenship you must formally renounce it, otherwise it is retained.’
German law states ‘German citizenship is automatically lost when a German citizen voluntarily acquires the citizenship of another country. To this there are two exceptions:
1. When the German citizen acquires a nationality from within the European Union, Switzerland, or another country with which Germany has a corresponding treaty.
2. When permission to obtain a foreign citizenship has been applied for and granted in advance of foreign naturalisation.’
Let me highlight the pertinent points: German citizenship is lost AUTOMATICALLY when a German citizen accepts nationality of another country.
No formal renouncing as you state.
Russell, it is you who is wrong again!
phill Parsons
August 4, 2010 at 20:47
Re#15. “How can German citizenship be lost?
A German national who applies for and receives a foreign nationality (except the nationality of one of the EU Member States or Switzerland) loses his/her German nationality. The only way of preventing the loss of German citizenship is if the applicant obtained permission to retain the nationality by the German authorities prior to acquiring the foreign nationality.â€
If the above is German law you may believe you are also a citizen og germany but may find that when you wish to avail yourself of the advantages that the government has decided otherwise. You cannot write law on TT, that is done by the jurisdiction that believes it has the power to enforce it. Nice try Russell but best left to those more learned which does not include me.
Alpal
August 4, 2010 at 22:35
Russell post 15. As stated they are assumptions only, based on the material provided on this website by John Hawkins – which sets out what Abetz told the Mercury.
I have no idea if Abetz did in fact send that letter.
If no such letter was ever sent by Abetz my opinion would be that, according to Sykes v Cleary, he would ineligible under s 44(i).
I have no idea if he would be required to produce such letter should the matter proceed to hearing.
Alpal
August 4, 2010 at 22:56
Christopher post 16. I’m not a constitutional lawyer either, so my meanderings on the subject are just that – the meanderings of someone who finds this interesting.
The proposition that a letter would suffice is not stated in Sykes v Cleary, which in fact said that what was required would depend upon the facts of each case.
My conclusion that it would be sufficient for Abetz is based on my conclusion that Mason, Toohey and McHugh thought it would be enough for Delacretaz and Kardamitsis, and an assessment that Abetz’s matter is similar.
The paragraphs I rely on for the first part of that are paras 54:
“[Delacretaz] omitted to make a demand for release from Swiss citizenship which would have been granted automatically as he has no residence in Switzerland and has been an Australian citizen for thirty-two years. Because he has failed to make such a demand, it cannot be said that he has taken reasonable steps to divest himself of Swiss citizenship…â€
And 55:
“[Kardamitsis] has omitted to seek the approval of the appropriate Greek Minister for the discharge of his Greek nationality. Whether the grant of that approval is a matter of discretion or is automatic is not altogether clear. … in the absence of an application for the exercise of the discretion in favour of releasing [Kardamitsis] from his Greek citizenship, it cannot be said that he has taken reasonable steps to divest himself of Greek citizenship…â€
I worked backwards from there – i.e. because both parties failed to demand or apply for release from their previous citizenship they were found not to have taken all reasonable steps but – and here is the leap – had they done so then all reasonable steps would have been taken.
I accept there is a jump in the chain of reasoning there.
However, I think it is an acceptable conclusion given that:
a) no other requirements other than notification were upon them,
b) there were no other missing steps mentioned in the judgment, and
c) given the sentiments in para 53 quoted above in post 6, a reply is not considered necessary.
The second part is based upon the factual similarities between Abetz and the above two people. They were all born elsewhere, migrated to Australia, became and were Australian citizens for quite some time, and were required to renounce their citizenship by letter to the relevant Minister of their country of origin.
The answer isn’t set in stone but it is my opinion that – under the assumptions set out in post 6 – Abetz has effectively renounced his former nationality notwithstanding his lack of reply and is therefore not ineligible under s44(i).
Alpal
August 4, 2010 at 23:18
My post 20 was done before I read posts 17, 18 and 19. If indeed, in 1974, German citizenship was lost automatically upon application to become a citizen of another country, then the matter is most likely resolved regardless of whether or not Abetz sent a letter in 1993 formally renouncing it.
Discovering what the law was in Germany in 1974 is beyond my research skills, but unlike lmxly I would be surprised if it had remained unchanged all that time given changes in Germany since 1974 – something about a wall coming down…
But if others could find what the German law was on this point in 1974 it would contribute to this discussion enormously.
john hawkins
August 5, 2010 at 02:50
Abetz is still sitting in the Senate as a result of his Election in 2004, he has been a Senator since 1994.
The right to German citizenship was in Abetz’s case acquired by birth and despite his aquisition of Australian citizenship only the German authorities can release him from dual nationality.
Cancellation is only possible in the eyes of the Australian Electoral Commission,” with the approval of the German authorities” as per Electoral Backgrounder No 19, otherwise a dual national is in default.
The acquisition of this letter of approval of his renunciation from the German Authorities makes it absolutely certain that Abetz is no longer a dual national.
I suggest that by his own admission he does not have this document.
This has been his problem since 1993, and under 44(i) of the Constitution he fails in that he cannot declare “I am qualified under the Constitution and the laws of the Commonwealth to be elected as a Senator”, full stop.
Michael
August 5, 2010 at 12:31
#23 – Sorry, John, but it seems that the German law is against you on this one…
As soon as he became a Australian citizen, his German citizenship was automatically renouced, in accordance to German law. That would constitute ‘approval’.
Garry Stannus
August 5, 2010 at 13:31
A very thought-provoking series of articles on a very serious issue. John Hawkins has clearly performed ‘due diligence’. In fact, the matters are quite dismaying.
Hawkins raises the issue of Abetz’s participation in [and Chairmanship of] the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee on the subject of citizenship. He does this in the context of changes being made to AEC Backgrounders and in an earlier piece on TT, receipt by the Committee of which Abetz was a member, of a submission from Senator Bartlett which called for changes to the restrictions to standing for office on those holding dual citizenship – a matter that according to Hawkins was of direct personal interest to the Senator. He also links this matter to former Premier, Ray Groom.
As I understand it, John Hawkins is not simply calling for the disqualification of Abetz from the Senate, because of having citizenship of a foreign country, but more importantly, Hawkins is bringing into question the probity of the Senator and at the same time is questioning whether knowledge of these matters is tacitly shared within the wider political arena.
This is quite disturbing.
Garry Stannus
August 5, 2010 at 17:13
John Ward, thank you for your (#7) in which you now apparently claim to be some sort of pantheist dog-whisperer in spite of your very clear (to me) statement in your #1 in which you were “…hoping and offering prayers to my god” – an utterance which you now excuse on the grounds of some personal condition associated with reading and coordination. “Dog? – O God!”
I’ve not been letting (Hawkins’s) ‘sleeping gods lie’, a number of times, I tried to reply to you and to come up with a quick limerick or verse along the lines of …
G…O…D spells God
and
D…O…G spells Dog
Abetz jumped from
a rotting Log
And landed in
a legal Bog…
…but as you can see, I’m sorry to say, I couldn’t quite come up with the goods. I think it needs more work. However, as compenstation, I offer you a new word to add to the area around dyslexia – for “dyslectic” how about “dysscriptic”? (I would suggest “dysscripsia” as the associated maning word.*
The “Word List of TTisms and Con-sequent Neuroses” might therefore include the fololwing entry:
dys-scripsia, n. impairment in writing/keyboarding ability, often associated with other dysorders esp. in reading and corodination. – dysscriptic n., adj.
*I recommend retaining the double ‘s’ in spelling dysscripsia etc on a number of grounds, but princiaplly for the solace it offers the dysscriptic, happy in the knowledge that he (not she) can place the first ‘s’ after the second ‘s’ without anybody realising. Further research on this condition needs to be done before it can be assumed that it affects both the sexes. nO the question of gender specificism, it would be appreciated John, if you could point me in the direction of other (female) dysscripts appearing in TT, so that a proper analysis of thier dystypes might be carried out. It is said quite commonly that women comumnicate better than men and even that while “women understand men, few men understand women”.
Just in closing, I wonder idly as a cloud, whether the palindrome is a worthwhile object of discussion. (‘Able was I ere…’ etc.) I ask you now to read the following backwards:
“women understand men, few men understand women”.
Would you accept this as having palindrometic qualities? Is the palindrome the dysscriptic’s last refuge, the opuim of the sefl-oppressed?
Yours in dysbelief,
Garry
Michael
August 5, 2010 at 20:05
#24 – Sorry to burst your bubble again Russell!
But you should actually read the German law on this matter.
You will find that you are absolutely wrong again on this one!
John Ward
August 5, 2010 at 20:52
Thank you Garry,your #27 was a delight .
I appreciate your concern, and I am much improved since I joined the National Dyslexic Association
(DNA).
davies
August 5, 2010 at 22:32
Hypothetically speaking, if he had a current German passport he would definitely be disqualified?
Steve
August 6, 2010 at 02:21
Am I missing something here, or are the people quoting German law, quoting current German law which has absolutely no relevance, unless it has been unchanged since Erica took Australian citizenship?
I’m still surprised that an ex-lawyer can expect to have much notice taken of a letter he purports to have sent, by ordinary mail no doubt, and for which he received no confirmation. Try that one next time you get a parking ticket and see how far you get!
Garry Stannus
August 6, 2010 at 14:00
Further to lmxly’s #8, via the link provided, I see that:
“The German rules on citizenship were thoroughly revised with the entry into force of the amended Nationality Act (Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz) on 1 January 2000. The rules underwent another lesser revision with the entry into force of the Immigration Act (Zuwanderungsgesetz) on 1 January 2005.”
I wish I could understand German, to see what was covered in those amendments of 2000 and 2005. Is John Hawkins’ petition related to Abetz’s last election or his next? i.e., when was the petition lodged?
I’m also wondering if the Court might find that it can make no pronouncement on Abetz’s status other than on his “current” citizenship status, and it seems possible that the present German law might allow the Senator the wriggle room he seems to need.
Actually, I’m also interested in the concept of ‘automatic’ loss of citizenship. I wouldn’t be surprised if in practice there were no such thing as automatic loss of citizenship. That is, that Abetz’s German citizenship would remain live until someone in the German administration received official notice of his having taken citizenship in Australia or otherwise and then actually ‘pulled out a file’, got the stamp pad and rubber stamp and gone whacko – CITIZENSHIP RELINQUISHED over the name of Abetz thus cancelling his citizenship.
Realist
August 6, 2010 at 16:58
This whole matter could be put beyond dispute if Liberal voters merely voted below the line instead of following the party instructions and put Abetz on number 3, or whatever lowly number seems appropriate. Why would any self respecting Liberal want to be represented by Abetz anyway?
Meanwhile Realist is struggling to find the correct candidate for place 24 on the Senate ticket. There are numerous worthy prospects, eg the Shooters and Fishers party and the Climate Sceptics come to mind. However, realistically, Erica is hard to pass over for this honour.
William Boeder
August 7, 2010 at 16:19
Ideally, the facts ensuring that effective communication is to have taken place, tis that there is a need for it be be judged effective.
Thus a form of reply to the contentious Abetz letter, should prove that communication has been actually recieved and effected.
The mere claim of a letter having been sent in the mail, carries the same validity as that of ‘there’s a cheque in the mail.’
In other words, completely inept and non-confirmed!
‘Fare thee well’ the questionably honorable Senator Eric Abetz!
Michael
August 8, 2010 at 14:22
#30 – Again do what I said in #28. Read the law! Read the law from 1974, read the law from today, read whichever one you think pertains to this case. Continually denying its contents doesn’t make you right Russell.
That’s right, then let the High Court decide. But remember, if the result isn’t what you want, respect the umpires decision. Though I can see that there will be cries of ‘corruption’ if this challenge fails.
Yes I am an Australian citizen, you? But I fail to its relevance to this debate.
Michael
August 9, 2010 at 18:49
#37 – Answer my question, are you an Australian citizen? Evading this are you, Russell?
There are ample citations to German law in previous posts in this thread, I feel no need to replicate these.
I think you may be sorely deluded, if you think that the German law is a tiny part in this, it is the majority, if Abetz has done everything that satisfies German law that he is no longer a German citizen then that is that. From the law, he is no longer a German citizen the moment he became an Australian citizen. Case closed.
Michael
August 10, 2010 at 01:24
#39 – Russell, I think I’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think we could both argue either point till the cows come home, correct?
The challenge may be about whether Abetz has satisfied Australian law, but the German law cannot be ignored. It has just as much relevance.
We’ll just see how it pans out, either way it will be interesting!
mike seabrook
August 11, 2010 at 15:59
if the liberals were to dump mr eric abetz and promise no more money for the tamar valley pulp mill from the feds, and offer the tasmanian government half the cost of restoring lake peddar, would they not get all the greens directed preferences, and win several seats in tasmania and mr abbott would become prime minister
SIMPLE.