Tasmanian Times

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. No price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Article

The School Strike for Climate Action on Parliament Lawns

The School Strike for Climate Action on Parliament Lawns in Hobart today attracted a crowd of almost 1,000 young students all eager to let the government know that they want action on climate change.

Impassioned speeches were made, poetry was recited, they danced to the funky beat of the Taroona High School band, Six Bars of Seb, and the grammar and spelling on their banners was impeccable.

Here was educated activism at work and an engagement of the young not seen for many years. The Federal government would ignore these future voters at their peril.

Sign a petition HERE

 

Rob Walls This Working Life Project Http://thisworkinglife.wordpress.com

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310 Comments

310 Comments

  1. John Hawkins

    October 10, 2019 at 6:17 pm

    The appalling Abetz moans and groans about demonstrators in Tasmania on the television this evening.

    He intones the Liberal lie in that dreadful nasal whine .. we are world leaders in combating climate change ..

    Abetz, why has the Tasmanian government just gifted a large sum of money to explore for coal in the headwaters of the Esk river?

    Is that good for the clean and green image of this lovely island?

    What say you, Abetz? Are you, along with Morrison, a card carrying member of the coal lobby?

    Please come back Tasmanian Times, because we need you to help with the toad hunting.

  2. Rob Halton

    October 9, 2019 at 9:36 am

    The way it is looking Climate change protesters seem to be shifting their actions towards civil disobedience and disruption being orchestrated by rat bag group Extinction Rebellion. The movement shift from Schoolies strike for Climate Change towards a more radical actions by XR is worrying for the community at large.

    Young CC goddess Greta Thunberg who the is already being dragged towards radicalism of XR, this is a disappointing trend and will only result in her loss of respect by the general population who are willing to listen to reason and not to the socially disruptive and potentially dangerous national and international events being planned by XR.

    Australians do not deserve to be treated this way, upsets to daily routines blocking transport for those going to work as we have already seen in Melbourne and Brisbane, fortunately no serious accidents have occurred so far!

    Lets be very clear about young people protesting for a worthwhile cause, One example closer to home within Western society are the determined actions of the exceptionally brave young Hong Kongers who put their own lives at risk and will continue to fight for freedom from the impending Communist Chinese rule of Hong Kong. There is much to be gained by their actioned aiming toward democracy and i would believe that most Australians would support their cause.

    The rise of China is a major concern throughout the globe, even our Federal government recognises these concerns as a matter of national security risks.!

    In my opinion XR will need to fall on its sword as it is the wrong tactic being unable to communicate with government and be heard by the people of Australia. Young Greta needs to realise that she risks being the victim of extremist views of XR and may have to cease with her passion for CC action because of XR involvement!

    XR reminds me of extremist group Earth First who were responsible for spiking trees in the Tasmanian forests during the “forest wars”! The authorities need to treat XR with the full force of the law as I do not believe their protests will remain “peaceful”! For example Traffic congestion tactics within our cities combined with summer heat and frayed tempers by the public can result in chaotic and dangerous situations facing the population. The government may need to incite emergency laws to directly deal with what is to follow by XR’s extremist actions and anti social behavior!

    This is not Hong Kong where protesters will continue fighting for their freedom as a worthy cause.for mankind.

    • Peter Bright

      October 9, 2019 at 6:59 pm

      Thinking readers wanting deeper insights into Extinction Rebellion may find them here:

      https://tinyurl.com/y2sy6ux2

    • Russell

      October 10, 2019 at 8:47 am

      Extinction Rebellion is not some kooky group, Robin. It is a very serious group of millions of people concerned about what people like you are doing to the planet, namely partaking in deliberate mass genocide.

      As Greta so correctly and precisely stated: “Change is coming .. whether you like it or not!”

      Damn your economy!

  3. Clive Stott

    October 6, 2019 at 6:00 pm

    Two links that might interest people …

    “European and North American countries will take a major stride in cleaning up the atmosphere next Monday, 7 October, through the implementation of an amended legally binding treaty to limit the amount of emissions polluting the air.”

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/10/1048612

    “.. the team found strong links between short-term exposure to air pollution and aggressive behavior, in the form of aggravated assaults and other violent crimes across the continental United States.”

    https://agsci.source.colostate.edu/exposure-to-air-pollution-increases-violent-crime-rates-study-finds/

  4. Peter Black

    October 6, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    There is a Petition for Climate Action on the Federal Parliament website here …

    https://www.aph.gov.au/petition_list?id=EN1041

    Closing date for signatures: 16 October 2019 (11.59pm AEST)

  5. Rob Halton

    October 2, 2019 at 9:19 am

    Time to bite the dust folks and face the fact that parts of Qld and NSW are facing the worst droughts on record and this has little or in fact nothing to do with the nations pitiful burning of coal for either electricity generation or metal smelting! The PM must as a matter of urgency throw in strict rules to protect water resources, soils and vegetation cover, indications so far are somewhat disappointing but this needs to change during his remaining two years in office. Its insane that some parts of the nation are out of drinking water let alone water for natural flows and agriculture!

    Nations such as China and India burn far more coal than the US, the EU and Australia combined! Australia from its deep past indications that are periods of severe droughts since time began this is now combined with overpopulation which appears to be approaching a tipping point for such a dry continent !

    The PM must stop further land clearing and lessen the follow on impacts of foreign ownership of vast lands in our arid regions to prevent further decline in our carbon storage within vegetated areas and at the same time our natural water resources within those regions.

    The issue for Australia far exceeds the use of coal, sustainable population growth spread among the right regions with a subsequent decline of the creation of mega cities such a Melbourne and Sydney should be on the national agenda.

    It is likely simpler lifestyles and a decline in overly affluent living resulting in many cases for debt creation and total dependence on material objectives are killing off the traditional Auystralian lifestyles.

    As I said earlier Climate action goddess Greta Thunberg should learn from her global wanderings that different countries have different sets of problems, the main one being decline of the natural world by the movement and expectations of supporting unsustainable population growth.

    The one to watch is Communist China with its brainwashed 1.2 billion inhabitants which I would estimate CANNOT continue to be contained within their own territories in the next decade!
    However Internal disruptions within China would be preferable to imperial expansionism!

    Social upheaval and inequality throughout the globe far exceeds the results of the use of coal as a fuel.

    • Michael Mann

      October 2, 2019 at 5:07 pm

      With the greatest respect Rob, what planet are you living on?

      • Clive Stott

        October 2, 2019 at 11:37 pm

        Exactly! Robin, please get off Uranus and save planet Earth …

        • Russell

          October 3, 2019 at 10:08 am

          “Time to bite the dust folks, and face the fact that parts of Qld and NSW are facing the worst droughts on record and this has little or in fact nothing to do with the nation’s pitiful burning of coal for either electricity generation or metal smelting!”

          I’ve just got two more large water tanks. I produce my own energy from the sun (which I have been using to weld all day for the last three days FOR FREE, as provided by the largest and safest nuclear reactor in our solar system, while at the same time my water is being electrically heated. Don’t come to people like me when you have no water, no power, and ultimately .. NO FOOD.

          Your head is planted deeply in that dust, Robin. Just like those in the mining towns running out and already run out of water, you’ll do nothing until it hits you, and I hope that’s very soon – KARMA

    • max

      October 3, 2019 at 9:08 am

      Rob, for years you have inflicted us with pure drivel, for example how to grow trees and have fuel reduction burns and to hell with all the people who were inflicted with smoke and Fine Particles (PM 2.5). But now it is how Australia can burn coal and every thing is going to be alright.

      Why can’t you grasp the simple fact that it makes no difference where the burning of fossil fuels takes place? CO2 rises world wide.

      You are right on one point however, namely that unsustainable population growth will become a problem .. but it is not causing rain bombs, droughts, heatwaves, melting arctic ice, melting permafrost, disappearing glaciers and rising sea levels. That’s being done by CO2.

      “Greta Thunberg should learn from her global wanderings that different countries have different sets of problems.” No Rob, wrong again. Rising CO2 is a world problem. We only have one atmosphere, and the CO2 released today anywhere in the world will be with us for up to 200 years while causing rain bombs, droughts, heatwaves, melting arctic ice, melting permafrost, disappearing glaciers and rising sea levels.

    • Peter Bright

      October 3, 2019 at 10:23 am

      When I received these words from THE SATURDAY PAPER today, I immediately thought of you, Robin.

      “More than anything, the Murdoch press has made it possible for the government in this country to do nothing on climate change … Emissions have risen every year since 2014.

      “As with all Murdoch campaigns, winning is all that matters. The scale of damage is of no consequence.

      Thunberg is a useful distraction. The old men who doubt science can join together in hating her youth. Maybe it comes easily because it was learnt in the schoolyard.

      “These columnists are bullies, and it is most plain when they are bullying a child.”

      • Peter Bright

        October 4, 2019 at 8:51 pm

        Besides reckless capitalism’s denial of the Climate Change Crisis, which its despicable proponents themselves, in their uncontrolled lust for gain, have caused and for which they despise and detest the magnificent Greta Thunberg’s worldwide exposure, and indeed the dear girl herself, there is another example of cowardly bullying targeting the defenceless and that’s Liberal’s numerous cruelly irrational attacks on the unemployed, particularly by that scheming tyrant-in-waiting, Peter Dutton, who in my opinion is increasingly hun-like, aggressively cruel, and dangerous.

        Capitalists won’t openly acknowledge that unemployment is necessary to optimise profits, but economists also know this is true. The aim is to make the unemployed ravenous and so desperate for survival that they will offer themselves to any capitalist employer ruthless enough to take them on whereupon cruel exploitation of human beings for gain continues apace, but with the exploited getting nowhere. The longer these poor souls can be used, and abused, in this modernised version of slavery, the greater the profits that can be made from them.

        This unprincipled rebuttal by capitalists of their own guilt, and their allocation of blame to the desperate unemployed, is a classic example of scapegoating.

        The nature of ruthless exploitative capitalism is that it will continue until there’s nothing left. This is what is currently happening wherever it exists. We see it in the fishing industry for example, where uncontrolled fishing grounds are exploited to death. The wiser capitalists, and there are some, have more respect for the environment and the workforce in general, and they will comply with prophylactic legislation to the benefit of all.

        But it seems as if we are headed for one or more worldwide crises with few but the Greens, and splendid human beings like Greta Thunberg, knowing quite what to do.

        Are the people listening? In most cases No, because the contemptible capitalist press refuses to tell them what they should most certainly be told. Capitalists, such as the owners of television stations and the media in general, deliberately keep populations dumbed down with useless, time-wasting televised trash and idiotic ‘sports’ battles to act as difusers of public anger, violence and rebellion.

        Telling the people the truth about itself would at least partially expose the ruthlessness of exploitative capitalism and focus attention on the guilty, and that’s something its so-called beneficiaries just can’t bear.

        To blame others, the bigger capitalists and the trans-national corporations, and those destroying the planet every day in their short term delusions of materialistic gain, invent and promote causes for war wherein they seek to secure the destruction of opposing economic systems such as genuine humanitarian socialism.

        I perceive the USA as a major cause of worldwide social disruption under false flags, alias deception, as initiated by the few .. and by ‘the few’ I mean those who not only manipulate a whole nation’s people, but their traitorous compliant governments too. The Australian government under PM Morrison is one such government, and increasingly this is seen by some as a traitors’ government.

        In this time of increasing international desperation where citizens and governments frantically run about blindly while inadvertently displaying ‘headless chook’ syndrome, I see the election of Green governments as the most practical way to restore worldwide peace and order, and I regard a nation’s Green vote as an indicator of how far it has advanced into the blessed realm of productive, intelligent progress. In short, I see the magnitude of the Green vote as a measure of a nation’s worthiness in these very troubled times when it alarmingly appears that our so-called civilisation is rapidly approaching extinction. The planet is much bigger than us, and if the planet says No, then No it will surely be. It is now yelping No every hour.

        In Australia the Green vote is kept very low, and it is kept low by capitalism’s propaganda, its innumerable lies, its everyday fraud and its perennial deception of citizens.

        As Greta says, it’s time for change, and to that I, and many others, will add the warning “or else!”

  6. Lyndall Rowley

    October 1, 2019 at 10:53 am

    Sadly, it appears that many citizens, including leading politicians, are either unwilling to, or simply cannot, see the forest for the trees. Consequently they get bogged down with self-limiting and immobilising ‘wicked problems’ of their own perception.

    Well then, let’s look at a very specific example of the influence of climate change as this might help to put the need for urgent, serious and effective mitigative action on climate change into a more personal and familiar frame of reference:

    ‘Future changes in extreme weather and pyroconvection risk factors for Australian wildfires’, Dowdy et al. 2019.

    From the Abstract: “… The McArthur Forest Fire Danger Index (FFDI) is used to represent near-surface weather conditions and the Continuous Haines index (CH) is used here to represent lower to mid-tropospheric vertical atmospheric stability and humidity measures relevant to dangerous wildfires and pyroconvective processes. Projected changes in extreme measures of CH and FFDI are examined using a multi-method approach, including an ensemble of global climate models together with two ensembles of regional climate models. The projections show a clear trend towards more dangerous near-surface fire weather conditions for Australia based on the FFDI, as well as increased pyroconvection risk factors for some regions of southern Australia based on the CH. These results have implications for fields such as disaster risk reduction, climate adaptation, ecology, policy and planning, noting that improved knowledge on how climate change can influence extreme wildfires can help reduce future impacts of these events.”

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-46362-x#article-info

  7. Rob Halton

    September 30, 2019 at 9:56 am

    MJF thanks for providing some sort of a reality check via the Conversation article “Australia is the runaway leader in building Renewable Energy” The article is reasonably believable in its context but again it mentions the main impediment to continue Renewables growth is transmission. Transmission constraints have resulted in bottlenecks in moving electricity from some wind and solar farms to the cities.

    This is probably a result of some of the states especially Victoria with Premier Daniel Andrews some what jumping the gun politically to imagine a more populated Melbourne will become a more liveable city with solar powered trams and increased solar panelled housing for new residents moving into the ever expanding mega city of Melbourne!
    My guess is Dan wants to be the next PM by moving Fedral Labor out of the rut that it is currently stuck in.

    To be perfectly honest population is the issue as persons tend crowd our major cities, better to think in terms of a sustainable population for the nation topping out at perhaps in the range of 25-26 million souls by 2050, any more as the effects of climate change is upon us will be to our peril.

    We may not be able to feed and water our own citizens let alone those “detained” arrivals YET to come from politically unstable areas of SE Asia.
    Hong Kong refugees come to mind escaping the brutal communist Chinese regime,is on the cards any day soon, but coming from British democratic origins we cant refuse this particular group asylum can we!

    Already we are seeing of what will be masses of displaced persons that by itself will result from the massive removal of native tribes from their homelands among the globes major air polluters by burning of rainforests in Sarawak, Borneo and in Brazil for the purpose of cropping and running livestock!

    The local gloomsters on TT still tend to persist that Australia is a major global polluter, not by a long shot . Its not the end of the world for Australia as long as it matchs population intake to its environment of which is currently under threat from lack of rainfall and more bushfires to follow!
    . Federal policy is urgently required to closely manage future land clearing and water resources for the sake of continuing habitation and not for foreign profiteers as is the case at present!

    Burning coal is not a problem within Australia is more of a solution of matching dispersal of population numbers with available land and water resources to sustain reasonable development and growth!

    Hopefully the Saami “goddess” of Climate Change Greta Thunberg who I am sure will visit Australia during her global journey, will see a much broader picture for the effects of global Climate Change!

    • max

      September 30, 2019 at 3:23 pm

      Rob, as usual you can point to the problem but fail to give a solution.

      As you say – “The local gloomsters on TT still tend to persist that Australia is a major global polluter, not by a long shot”. Not correct! Australia may not be a major polluter but per capita we are a major polluter, and the CO 2 we produce is going to destroy the world as we know it. This is a collective world wide problem.

      China is the largest emitter followed by the USA. Per capita 2016 China’s was 7.45 metric tons, America’s was 15.56 metric tons and Australia’s was 17.22 metric tons, so we are big polluter.

      CO 2 in the very near future is going to force mass migration, and where will the people go? The current population of Bangladesh is 163,449,316 and their land is being flooded because of CO2. In 1943 the Queen Mary carried 15,740 troops. What would happen to Morrison’s policy of inhumane treatment of refugees if refugees started to arrive in millions? This is the frightening scenario that we are facing with even present CO2 levels.

      Hopefully the Saami “goddess” of Climate Change, Greta Thunberg, will visit Australia during her global journey, and that she will wake up all the ostriches who have their heads buried in the sand of stupidity.

      Greta is 16 years old, and showing more intelligence than all who mock her.

      • Clive Stott

        September 30, 2019 at 6:33 pm

        Robin, you say “Burning coal is not a problem within Australia …”

        Try telling that to people in the Hunter Valley!

    • Russell

      October 1, 2019 at 8:11 am

      “Burning coal is not a problem within Australia.”

      Air-head! Not only is Australia unnecessarily burning coal, but we are giving away enormous amounts of it to many other countries to do the same.

      Australia is a big problem on the global scale, and the biggest embarrassment. One loser puppet after another elected as our PM is absolutely disgraceful and shameful. New Zealand makes us look like a despotic third world country.

      Those rural towns who voted for this moron are quickly running out of water. Let’s see how their jobs go when they don’t even have enough water to drink because it’s been given to miners and irrigators to waste. It’s called karma.

  8. MjF

    September 28, 2019 at 8:49 am

    I repeat, The Conversation has this to say:

    https://theconversation.com/australia-is-the-runaway-global-leader-in-building-new-renewable-energy-123694

    This is the kind of factual information that cultists, alarmists, doomsayers, fanatics and self appointed populists prefer to sweep under the mat, or feebly try to hide under an offering of hastily concocted mambo-jumbo, and which usually contains a reference to PRC to make it sound more authoritative.

    The pattern never changes and is typically inspired not so late at night in a troll’s bark hut somewhere, as partially illuminated by the yellowing light of a 12 Volt halogen bulb.

    • max

      September 28, 2019 at 1:58 pm

      Meanwhile, back at the oasis, the camels are still picking their dates.

      Emissions in 2019 increased to 561 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent. That was up from 554.5 million tonnes the previous year and 551.2 million tonnes in 2017.

      Australia has 21 coal fired power station and 19.5 million vehicles, all of which are belching out CO2.

      No matter how you cut it, we have a long way to go to reduce CO2 to a level that may see the survival of life on earth. Morrison claims that Australia is responsible for just 1.3% of global emissions, and that Australia is doing its bit on climate change and we reject any suggestion to the contrary. With this attitude, one that is world wide, no wonder Greta Thunberg is fighting a losing battle.

      “I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru” wrote the columnist Andrew Bolt in the Herald Sun.

      If Greta has any mental disorders they surely pale into insignificance when compared with those of Morrison, Bolt and Jones, all of whom are displaying signs of schizophrenia.

      • Russell

        September 29, 2019 at 10:30 am

        Bolt can talk about mental disorders! Mirror!

    • Russell

      September 29, 2019 at 10:36 am

      Are you one of these energy contributing Australians, Martin?

      No.

      You just sit on your lazy backside and wait for everyone else do the heavy lifting for you while you continue your ignorant wasteful draining habits in your MacMansion somewhere in the treeless suburban concrete desert.

  9. John Hawkins

    September 27, 2019 at 11:29 pm

    Morrison is a fully paid up card carrying member of the fossil fuels cartel.

    Greta Thunberg is no more than a populist whinge. The brain dead know that climate change is crap and they vote Liberal.

    How did Morrison get the keys to the Lodge?

    Palmer bought them for him for $50 million worth of preference votes that swung the Queensland vote.

    Palmer controls the adjoining lease to the Adani coal mine.

    Would his quid pro quo be a railway line to the coast paid for by the Aussie taxpayer?

    Nah, not possible!

    Another populist whinge!

    Or is it?

  10. Lyndall

    September 27, 2019 at 12:55 am

    PM Scott Morrison thinks he’s very clever and gotten away with it at the UN in framing Australia’s investment in renewables as proof that we are not laggards in addressing climate change.

    He claims that internal and global critics “willingly overlook or perhaps ignore” Australia’s achievements “as the facts simply don’t fit the narrative they wish to project about our contribution.” (https://tinyurl.com/y6cu3bgn ).

    We do have over 2.6 million homes and small businesses with rooftop solar; and we do have a booming growth in large-scale solar and wind farms to the point where our renewable energy is now growing ten times faster per capita than the world average. (https://tinyurl.com/y46tm3do & https://tinyurl.com/y2wh6jn2 ).

    But even so, that’s only part of the story and doesn’t account for everything on Australia’s emissions balance sheet. There’s something else very significant about which our PM chooses to remain silent. But it doesn’t fit his narrative for us to realise.

    For PM Morrison to accuse others of misleading everyone – including children – with a narrative based on untruths is a bit rich. His willing, deceptive and politically convenient omission to tell the whole story of Australia’s effective contributions to global climate change is shameful enough. But to obfuscate and then deflect any blame by accusing the media of misrepresentation and others of some sort of self-interested manipulation simply smacks of the pathetic ‘fake news’ and ‘witch hunt’ defence used habitually by his new best friend Donald. (Brazil’s President Bolsinaro – also besties with Trump – has already adopted the same strategy in claiming that green groups and media were telling lies and even lighting fires in the Amazon).

    Our PM willingly overlooks and ignores the fact that our emissions have been increasing (whilst in that canter) – not reducing – under federal Coalition Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison governments ever since they gleefully and triumphantly extinguished Labor’s carbon tax. (It did work, by the way. Emissions did decrease with the carbon tax in place).

    But that’s not the worst of this government’s sly omission about their record in the name of perpetual economic growth and our actual contribution towards climate change. According to an article in The Conversation:

    “The emissions produced from the fossil fuels extracted by Australia’s major gas, coal and oil producing companies – our “carbon majors” – such as BHP, Glencore and Yancoal, are now larger than all Australia’s domestic emissions.” In fact, we are now the world’s biggest exporter of coal and LNG. (https://tinyurl.com/y2wh6jn2).

    This emissions source isn’t taken into account or even acknowledged by Australia despite the inevitable consequent and very real outcome of massive ‘offshored’ emissions. We apparently take no responsibility whatsoever for liberating these inert fossil fuels into a certain future of an already dangerously overburdened global atmosphere. We just take the money and bugger the global consequences. (Ironically the offshore argument was used successfully against the federal Labor government when they had a policy for emissions trading & carbon credits. But politically no-one is mentioning offshored carbon these days).

    The untapped thermal coal-filled Galilee basin is waiting in the wings with powerful interests such as Adani, Palmer, Rinehart and Chinese companies all ready to put more coal into the climate change arena – Adani’s original Carmichael Mine proposal alone was reportedly going to be the largest coal mine in the southern hemisphere.

    But as it is, our existing working mines have already realised massive amounts of equivalent carbon dioxide emissions and with extensions, soon to be, e.g.:

    “… in 2018 BHP’s emissions from its global fossil fuel operations alone were more than the whole of Australia’s domestic emissions (534Mt CO₂-e) for 2018. If BHP were a country, the products it produces would cause emissions greater than those emitted by 25 million Australians.”

    “As well as their current levels of production, many of the carbon majors hold vast reserves to be extracted in the future as well as new fossil fuel projects. Glencore, the largest coal mining company in Australia, reported in 2018 that they have 6,765Mt of measured metallurgic coal resources, and 1,565Mt of thermal coal in proved marketable reserves. Together, that’s the equivalent of 18,202Mt of CO₂, more than 34 times Australia’s 2018 carbon emissions.” (https://tinyurl.com/y2wh6jn2 ).

    This does not bode well.

    But at the very least we could pick the easiest practical options for emissions reduction and reduce coal (and gas) reliance where we can i.e. by using renewable sources for our electricity needs, gradually shut down ageing coal-fired power stations (and not build new ones), and leave all new thermal coal deposits in the ground. But no, that doesn’t suit the Coalition’s world view; nor would it please its very powerful and generous network of friends. Labor sits wobbling on the fence whilst supporting CSG fracking and ‘coal in the future energy mix’ too. Regardless of ruling party, the money from exports rules.

    Last but not least I’d like to make mention of the unwise and graceless words of our PM whilst he was representing Australia at the UN climate conference overseas. Patronising, false characterisation, half-truths, misdirection and feigned concerns for ‘our children worrying unnecessarily’ – that was my impression, but this does not do his narrative full justice. He said jaw-dropping things like suggesting that the school children (and Greta T) have been brainwashed and are being manipulated by adults to carry out their agendas. What sort of an insult to the intelligence of thousands of children around the world is that? What of the adults that support the movement and marched as well?

    He also said ridiculous statements like:

    “..it was important Australian children were confident they would live in a “wonderful country and pristine environment”. “They will also have an economy to live in as well,”. “I don’t want our children to have anxieties about these issues.” “We’ve got to let kids be kids.” And in relation to his own two daughters – “I don’t allow them to be basically contorted into one particular view. “… the worst thing I would impose on my child is needless anxiety. They’ve got enough things to be anxious about.” (https://tinyurl.com/y3atu53l ).

    Needless concern? Let kids be kids. Yeah, right… So let me get this right – according to our PM the children have been deceived & used by others with a misinformed agenda and supported by a biased media; kids should not even have to think about their future (there’s nothing to worry about) because the adults are taking the timely, responsible & necessary action to address climate change; and his government has everything under control. From his learned perspective we do have a ‘pristine environment’ now (not) and, since any climate change concerns are basically based on ‘contorted’ views, we must assure children that they will be living in a pristine environment in the future. Basically and most importantly from the PM’s perspective, we can have our pristine planet cake and eat its fossil fuel resources too. (Or is that the other way around?).

    Maybe his ramped up defiant attitude and sometimes farcical viewpoints are signs of someone who’s becoming desperate. Perhaps with the growing actualities and social unrest he’s realising that his constructed reality for short-term political purposes and economic growth (largely based on finite and globally polluting resources) is no longer viable. Or maybe he truly is in climate change denial.

    What do I want? Climate action. When do I want it? Now!

  11. MjF

    September 26, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    https://theconversation.com/australia-is-the-runaway-global-leader-in-building-new-renewable-energy-123694

    I doubt this is what a climate laggard is actually about, according to the good old ACF.

    • Russell

      September 27, 2019 at 8:13 am

      Wrong again, Tweedledee.

      China has covered vast tracts of its hills with solar panels, and export more of them to the world than anyone else.

      Scandinavian and European countries have many more times the electric cars on the road than Australia, and they are well on target to be 100%.

  12. Lyndall

    September 23, 2019 at 10:36 am

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch where the serious action is really happening …

    Climate change ‘hitting harder and sooner’ than forecast warn scientists ahead of UN meeting: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-23/climate-change-accelerating-warn-scientists/11537240

    “A new report published ahead of key UN climate talks has warned the world is falling drastically behind in the race to avert climate disaster, with the five-year period ending in 2019 the hottest on record.
    Key points:

    The new report revealed that global temperatures between 2015-2019 were the hottest on record
    It noted carbon emissions in the same period had risen by 20 per cent
    Its authors also warned of the alarming extent of sea-level rise and melting glaciers

    The data, compiled by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), says climate change is accelerating, with sea levels rising, carbon dioxide levels increasing and ice sheets melting faster than ever before. …

    Sea levels have been rising by an average of 5 millimetres a year in the past five years, compared to 3.2mm a year on average since 1993, with much of the rise attributed to melting glaciers and ice sheets.

    The report flagged that Arctic summer sea ice has declined at a rate of 12 per cent per decade over the past 40 years, with the four lowest values between 2015 and 2019. …

    The amount of ice lost from the Antarctic ice sheet increased by a factor of six each year between 1979 and 2017, while glacier loss for 2015-19 is also the highest for any five-year period on record. …

    “This reads like a credit card statement after a five-year-long spending binge,” said Dave Reay, chair in carbon management at the University of Edinburgh.

    “Our global carbon credit is maxed out,” he added.

    “If emissions don’t start falling there will be hell to pay.” ..

    The report also found that heatwaves were the deadliest weather hazard in the 2015-19 period, affecting all continents and setting new national temperature records.

    The summer of 2019, which included the hottest ever month on record in July, saw unprecedented wildfires in the Arctic.

    In June, these were responsible for emitting 50 megatons of carbon dioxide.”

    • Clive Stott

      September 24, 2019 at 12:57 am

      Yes Lyndall, and this report is gaining exposure in the right places – thank goodness.

      Then of course, we have this …

      “… Fresh details of Morrison Government’s coal spruiking emerge as Australia is denied speaking spot at UN climate summit.” https://tinyurl.com/y4furpo8

  13. Clive Stott

    September 22, 2019 at 1:19 am

    Here we have a successful carbon emissions ruling:

    20/11/2015 – Seattle, Washington – Late last night, King County Superior Court Judge Hollis R. Hill issued a groundbreaking ruling in the unprecedented case of eight youth petitioners who requested that the Washington Department of Ecology write a carbon emissions rule that protects the atmosphere for their generation and those to come.

    Press Release: https://cleanairtas.com/15.11.15WADecisionPR.pdf

    • Lyndall

      September 27, 2019 at 12:02 pm

      Upping the ante now … on 23 Sept 2019, so far fifteen children plus Greta Thunberg petitioning the UN under ‘Rights of the Child’ v. Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany and Turkey. See the full 101 page petition here: https://tinyurl.com/yxmff25a

      They represent various countries and climate change related issues from around the world.

      Of particular interest to you Clive, is one petitioner’s personal reason for involvement: “In California, Petitioner Alexandria Villaseñor suffered smoke inhalation from the Paradise wildfire and was bedridden for three weeks.” (s1.6, p.2).

      Also of interest to CleanAir: “Right to health. The respondent’s acts and omissions perpetuating the climate crisis have already caused injuries to the petitioners’ mental and physical health—from asthma to emotional trauma. These injuries violate the petitioners’ right to health under Article 24. And the injuries will worsen as the world continues to warm.” (s1.26, p.6).

      Some, like our Prime Minister or President Trump, might consider this to be tokenism or deluded grandstanding, or perhaps even more proof of adult manipulation of children .. and all stoked by ‘fake’ media bias. But I think this is fantastic.

      I look forward to the progression of this case, and any revealing findings.

      • Clive Stott

        September 29, 2019 at 9:26 pm

        “The science is incontrovertible: global warming is caused by human activities that emit carbon dioxide (“CO2”) and other greenhouse gases (“GHG”)2 into the atmosphere of the planet. Each day, the burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, industrial processes, and agriculture add hundreds of millions of tons of CO2 to the atmosphere, where it will remain for centuries. There is now more CO2 in the atmosphere than at any time in the past 800,000 years.”

        And what about our forest industries saying high intensity burns are OK because the convection sends the residue up into the stratosphere as if that is OK and acceptable!

        Yes Lyndall, people do have rights. Many people around the world will be following this case.

        Go the children! They need our support for what they are doing. These kids are miles smarter than what Scott Morrison gives them credit for. In fact they must be a worry to him to lash out at them like he did. Totally uncalled for.

  14. MJF

    September 19, 2019 at 5:46 pm

    Old-growth trees cut down for windfarm transmission corridor
    MATTHEW DENHOLM
    TASMANIA CORRESPONDENT
    @MatthewRDenholm

    Rainforest trees 200 years old have been cleared to make way for a wind farm transmission line in Tasmania’s Tarkine, prompting claims of green “hypocrisy”.
    Myrtle and sassafras trees were among those felled along a 10.5km corridor widened for transmission lines associated with the $280 million, 112 megawatt wind farm at Granville Harbour, in Tasmania’s remote northwest.
    Special species timber advocate Andrew Denman, who discovered the felled trees, said it raised concerns about environmental impacts, wastage of high-value timber and wind power’s “green” credentials.

    He estimated that some of the felled trees, highly valued in specialty timber production, were 200 years old, given they typically grow at 0.3cm a year and were 60cm in diameter.
    With more wind farms planned for Tasmania, including another in the northwest requiring a 170km transmission line, he believed any further clearing, if it must occur, should be co-ordinated to ensure timber was not wasted. “With much of the special timbers in short supply … there could have been a more co-ordinated effort in utilising it to make sure that timber was going to a sawmiller in a timely manner so it could be processed and not wasted,” said Mr Denman, a boatbuilder.
    While not critical of the wind farm proponent, whom he did not doubt had complied with regulatory requirements, he understood clearing for electricity infrastructure was exempt from the Forest Practices Code, which seeks to mitigate impacts on keys species.
    He believed it was hypocritical of the Greens to oppose “sustainable” harvesting of rainforest timbers while backing the Granville Harbour wind farm and, by implication, associated logging of such trees. “An old-growth tree is an old-growth tree,” Mr Denman said. “Why is it acceptable to cut it down for a transmission line but not acceptable to cut it down sustainably and regenerate that area and put it to good use?”
    A Greens spokeswoman said while the party was a “strong supporter of renewable energy”, it “consistently opposed logging or clearing within reserves”.
    The wind farm’s website says the transmission line, providing power to the grid at the Reece Dam, was being handled by state-owned TasNetworks.
    A spokeswoman for project developer Granville Harbour Operations said it required all works to comply with approvals. “These impose clear procedures and requirements on us and our contractors to mitigate and manage environmental impacts, including impacts to native vegetation,” she said.
    TasNetworks said its widening of an existing transmission corridor was “considered optimal”. “It reduced the extent of clearing required to connect the wind farm to the electricity distribution network,” a spokesman said.

    • John Hawkins

      September 20, 2019 at 8:45 am

      Liberal Tasmanian senator Erich Abetz reacts to fellow Tasmanian Tim Flannery in “The Conversation” … “Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong couldn’t have put it better”.

      The Planet needs right-wing fascists of the Abetzian ilk to keep us all sane. Martin Fitch, he must make you feel really proud to be a Tasmanian!

      We just have to get the order right:

      Erich – Adolf – Joe – Mao … now there is a team we can all be proud of!

      • Peter Bright

        September 22, 2019 at 9:38 pm

        Robin Halton has always aligned himself in TT’s Comments section with Scott Morrison, his hero.

        Scott Morrison has almost totally aligned himself, and recklessly this nation too, with America’s current president, Donald Trump.

        Robin, and relevant others, I advise you to read this right through, and then have an extremely critical look at what you’ve done, and to most earnestly reconsider your loyalties.

        USA Pretend Unmasked — 29 August, 2019:

        http://www.brianwillson.com/usa-pretend-unmasked/

    • Rob Halton

      September 20, 2019 at 10:18 am

      What do you expect, land clearing for infrastructure is a part of the price to be paid for Wind power expansion in Tasmania. Loss of biodiversity overall, the natural environment is steadily being reduced within the nation.

      Yep the Greens are still are living in fairy land when they proposed wind to replace coal.

      More eagle deaths and wait till the Robbins Island proposal becomes a reality 250 mincing machines in the vicinity of a world class wet lands that support migratory bird life.

      My message to the Greens, you reap what you sow!

      • max

        September 20, 2019 at 2:25 pm

        Rob, your hatred for the Greens is well known. Get over it. Your stubborn refusal to accept the fact that the old ways of polluting the world, and treating it as an ashtray or a garbage bin, have more than reached their use-by date. Our world has reached the tipping point of survival for all living things, and the burning of fossil fuels is the problem.

        I am not a fan of wind farms in their present form as there are better ways of harvesting energy, but the good old days of cost-cutting for profit are still holding back the best possible outcome for renewable energy.

        Cheap energy created the problem and there is no move to secure responsible energy. You are quite right, “Loss of biodiversity overall, the natural environment is steadily being reduced within the nation” … but whose fault is that?

        But back to windmills: Discover Nashtifan Windmills in Nashtifan, Iran: The vertical-axis windmills of ancient Persia have been grinding flour for 1,000 years .. and counting.

        These mills have provided reliable energy without problems for a thousand years.

        Watch them working here: https://www.greenprophet.com/2017/04/worlds-oldest-windmills-may-stop-in-nashtifan-iran/

        • Peter Bright

          September 25, 2019 at 7:59 pm

          I’m increasingly incredulous that the USA, Britain and Australia have three right-wing drongos for leaders.

          “Teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg has captured the world’s attention in a fierce and passionate speech at the United Nations headquarters, accusing world leaders of failing to act on climate change.”

          “More than 50 global leaders — with the exception of Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison and US President Donald Trump — were set to take part in the summit by announcing climate finance measures and transitioning from coal power.”

          https://tinyurl.com/Greta-makes-it-plain

      • Russell

        September 21, 2019 at 10:34 am

        If you had ever been outside your front gate and ventured off to the north west you would know that there are already vast tracts of land which have been cleared and drained for farming where these power lines could probably go.

        You seem very pleased about the destruction.

    • Russell

      September 21, 2019 at 10:30 am

      Was it any conservationists who cut down the trees, Martin? No.

      Was any Environmental Impact Study done, Martin? Probably not.

      But who are you to blame anyone in a career which has been responsible for literally trillions of endemic native trees and plants being erased off the face of Tasmania in order to make way for toilet paper?

    • Rob Halton

      September 21, 2019 at 4:26 pm

      Its good to see Mr Denman on the alert in the bush noting the RF timbers felled by Tas Networks.for creating a wider swath for the new transmission lines between the Granville Wind farm to the Reece dam!

      FPA CEO Peter Volker formally known for his mastery of the supportive silviculture establishing the wide spread FT nitens disaster across the State Public land during the 1900’s has now been drawn into useful action to ensure that his part for monitoring of the FPC will be up to scratch as of after 8th April 2020 for land that is currently held as Future Forest Production Land will become Production Forest with Harvest plans currently being drawn up to assist the forest industry especially for those dependent on access to high value Special timbers!

      As Most Special timbers areas currently held in Reserve are in the North West I am delighted that Bobs Country the Tarkine much of the area will be soughtv after for the progressive harvest for Special Timbers .

      At the same time while I remain very tolerant of current Wind Farm establishment at Cattle Hill, Lake Echo and at the Granville farm I remain somewhat hesitant of the projected impact of the Robbins Island project on the local biodiversity as well as for the removal of swathes of forested land to establish the new transmission lines to the Paloona power station

      I remain very concerned about raptor numbers set to disappear as well as more biodiversity under the imploding regime of Windpower developments and associated infrastructure beyond the current two at Cattle Hill and Granville Farm to create for the State government an income stream based on the imaginary Battery of the Nation signature for which in fact requires an enormous hand out from the Federal Government which may never happen as Federal revenues are already drying up with less coal being exported to China.

      Poor old idealistic Bob caught between Renewable electricity expansion, limited Special Timbers harvest and the creation of a Tarkine National Park!

      If Tasmania cant sustain its current levels of electricity usage and stand alone as a State then something is drastically wrong.

    • Russell

      September 23, 2019 at 9:49 am

      Why Reece Dam, half way across the state? There are surely high tension transmission cables going right across the top of the state to all the communities and industries, including Port Latta.

      If they had to go to Reece Dam (why, I don’t know!) then why not go across the cleared farmland on the north coast to Port Latta and then follow their already cleared and maintained pipeline track all the way to Savage River, and then on through Corinna and Reece Dam? They could also connect into the high tension cables at Savage River itself, and forget about Reece Dam.

      All this would already be cleared, thus saving an absolute bundle.

      • Rob Halton

        September 24, 2019 at 4:01 am

        Obviously the Reece Power Station below the dam is the closest point for the transmission lines from Granville Wind Farm to feed into the electricity generation system.

        • Russell

          September 25, 2019 at 6:15 pm

          Prove it for a change, Robin.

          Savage River is way before Reece Dam if you know your Tasmanian geography, and they have high tension lines going there before heading back north. Surely there are also similar lines going to Port Latta and everywhere else across the north.

          Methinks it’s a backdoor way to allow old growth forest logging by the Tasmanian government – AGAIN.

          • Rob Halton

            September 26, 2019 at 7:30 pm

            Russell it makes no sense to take the HT lines to savage River north across the rugged and inaccessible Meredith Range NP dozing unnecessary tracks scarring more of the natural landscape!
            ! Reece dam is only 11 km from the Granville Wind farm and the route basically follows beside the Heemskirk road
            .One of the critical issues for wind farm locations is the transmission cost which can either make or break a windfarm.

            Its is a well known fact that Renewables are limited by inadequate infrastructure capacity at the end of the day its all about economics having an income stream asap to justify private investment.

            Some one has to pay for the transmission costs on top of the wind or solar farm infrastructure. More renewables scattered around the country side, the consumer has to be prepared to pay the extra price for the so called “cleaner and greener” electricity!

          • Russell

            September 27, 2019 at 8:21 am

            My mistake, I was thinking about the windfarms in the north west corner of the state and wondering why they would have to be run to Reece Dam.

            Regarding the “extra cost” though, it would be a minute fraction of what the public has had to wear paying for forestry and minings’ subsidies over the past four decades – not to mention the environmental cost which we are ALL paying for now.

  15. MJF

    September 19, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    Another view of good old Tim. How dare anyone pick on his failures ?

    I particularly like the $90 mill for a geothermal energy trial he hoodwinked Rudd out of. Who would have guessed a well could catastrophically collapse ?

    https://www.riteon.org.au/tim-flannery-professor-of-dud-predictions-and-climate-falsehoods/

    • Russell

      September 21, 2019 at 10:37 am

      “Who would have guessed a well could catastrophically collapse?”

      Like a fracking well, for example? That would never happen .. would it?

    • abs

      September 23, 2019 at 1:01 pm

      MJF, you realise that “rite-on” are not an impartial and reliable source of information, don’t you?

      From their FB page, I think their favorite hash tag is #climatehoax

  16. Lyndall Rowley

    September 17, 2019 at 10:42 pm

    Dear TT Moderator,

    Perhaps this doesn’t fit the category of a comment or reply, but since this is presently the only form of TT entry I think it might pass muster.

    Hereunder in its entirety is an opinion piece written by Tim Flannery. He gives us his take on where we’re at in the battle to get action on climate change.

    Poor Tim. Along with many of us, a sense of deep realisation, disgust, anger, and frustration is felt. That famous cry of “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this any more’ seems to ring true more than ever now … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug

    Come this Friday 20 September 2019, let’s make this the biggest turn-out ever for the sake of this beautiful planet and a sustainable future for all. Let’s show our so-called leaders in government that they’re not acting in our best interests, that they are acting negligently, and sending us into an increasingly unviable and dangerous future.

    I’ll be there and I’ll be taking my 91 year old mum along. This is the time to rise up and ensure we are all heard.

    ………………..

    ‘The gloves are off: ‘predatory’ climate deniers are a threat to our children’

    Tim Flannery, The Conversation, September 17, 2019

    In this age of rapidly melting glaciers, terrifying megafires and ever more puissant hurricanes, of acidifying and rising oceans, it is hard to believe that any further prod to climate action is needed.

    But the reality is that we continue to live in a business-as-usual world. Our media is filled with enthusiastic announcements about new fossil fuel projects, or the unveiling of the latest fossil-fuelled supercar, as if there’s no relationship between such things and climate change.

    In Australia the disconnect among our political leaders on the deadly nature of fossil fuels is particularly breathtaking.

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison continues to sing the praises of coal, while members of the government call for subsidies for coal-fired power plants. A few days ago, Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor urged that the nation’s old and polluting coal-fired power plants be allowed to run “at full tilt”.

    In the past, many of us have tolerated such pronouncements as the utterings of idiots – in the true, original Greek meaning of the word as one interested only in their own business. But the climate crisis has now grown so severe that the actions of the denialists have turned predatory: they are now an immediate threat to our children.

    A ‘colossal failure’ of climate activism

    Each year the situation becomes more critical. In 2018, global emissions of greenhouse gases rose by 1.7% while the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere jumped by 3.5 parts per million – the largest ever observed increase.

    No climate report or warning, no political agreement nor technological innovation has altered the ever-upward trajectory of the pollution. This simple fact forces me to look back on my 20 years of climate activism as a colossal failure.

    Many climate scientists think we are already so far down the path of destruction that it is impossible to stabilise the global temperature at 1.5°C above the pre-industrial average without yet to be developed drawdown technologies such as those that remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. On current trends, within a decade or so, stabilising at 2°C will likewise be beyond our grasp.

    And on the other side of that threshold, nature’s positive feedback loops promise to fling us into a hostile world. By 2100 – just 80 years away – if our trajectory does not change, it is estimated that Earth will be 4°C warmer than it was before we began burning fossil fuels.

    Far fewer humans will survive on our warming planet

    That future Earth may have enough resources to support far fewer people than the 7.6 billion it supports today. British scientist James Lovelock has predicted a future human population of just a billion people. Mass deaths are predicted to result from, among other causes, disease outbreaks, air pollution, malnutrition and starvation, heatwaves and suicide.

    My children, and those of many prominent polluters and climate denialists, will probably live to be part of that grim winnowing – a world that the Alan Joneses and Andrew Bolts of the world have laboured so hard to create.

    How should Australia’s parents deal with those who labour so joyously to create a world in which a large portion of humanity will perish? As I have become ever more furious at the polluters and
    denialists, I have come to understand they are threatening my children’s well-being as much as anyone who might seek to harm a child.

    Young people themselves are now mobilising against the danger. Increasingly they’re giving up on words, and resorting to actions. Extinction Rebellion is the Anthropocene’s answer to the UK working class Chartists, the US Declaration of Independence, and the defenders of the Eureka Stockade.

    Its declaration states:

    “This is our darkest hour. Humanity finds itself embroiled in an event unprecedented in its history, one which, unless immediately addressed, will catapult us further into the destruction of all we hold dear […] The wilful complicity displayed by our government has shattered meaningful democracy and cast aside the common interest in favour of short-term gain and private profit […] We hereby declare the bonds of the social contract to be null and void.”

    Words have not cut through. Is rebellion the only option?

    Not yet a year old, Extinction Rebellion has had an enormous impact. In April it shut down six critical locations in London, overwhelmed the police and justice system with 1,000 arrests, and forced the British government to become the first nation ever to declare a climate emergency.

    So unstable is our current societal response that a single young woman, Greta Thunberg, has been able to spark a profoundly powerful global movement. Less than a year ago she went on a one-person school strike. Today school strikes for climate action are a global phenomenon.

    On September 20 in Australia and elsewhere, school principals must decide whether they will allow their students to march in the global climate strike in an effort to save themselves from the climate predators in our midst, or force them to stay and study for a future that will not, on current trends, eventuate.

    I will be marching with the strikers in Melbourne, and I believe teachers should join their pupils on that day. After all, us older generation should be painfully aware that our efforts have not been enough to protect our children.

    The new and carefully planned rebellion by the young generation forces us earlier generations of climate activists to re-examine our strategy. Should we continue to use words to try to win the debate? Or should we become climate rebels? Changing the language around climate denialism will, I hope, sharpen our focus as we ponder what comes next.

    https://theconversation.com/the-gloves-are-off-predatory-climate-deniers-are-a-threat-to-our-children-123594

    • max

      September 18, 2019 at 9:54 am

      Thanks Lyndall, for summing up the terrifying situation of Climate Change in stark black and white.

      How is it possible that our government and its supporters can wake up each morning and see the world with rose-coloured glasses?

      There are no alternatives. Either Climate Change is happening with CO2 levels, or it’s not. There is no middle road.

      In my humble opinion our government, the Morrison government and the likes of Alan Jones, are willing to take the world to hell in a handcart.

      • Russell

        September 18, 2019 at 11:19 am

        Most of those in ‘power’ and in the best positions to do something expect to be dead within the next 20 years, and so they don’t give a crap as long as they can live it up at everyone else’s expense in the meantime.

        They are criminals of the very worst kind, affecting every single form of life on our planet, and I just can’t understand why the rest of the planet’s population hasn’t taken this matter into its own hands.

        Too many demented sheeple.

      • Clive Stott

        September 18, 2019 at 12:03 pm

        And Max, they are trying to prevent anyone else doing anything about it.

        Examiner 14 September 2019

        Tasmanian activists who promote protests which involve trespass onto private land could receive 12 months’ imprisonment under new federal legislation.
        The new laws, which primarily target farmland and farming and forestry businesses, were passed in the Senate this week.
        Tasmanian Liberal senators Jonathon Duniam and Claire Chandler spoke on the bill in Parliament.
        Senator Duniam amended the bill to include wood processing facilities.
        The laws would cover places such as timber and pulp mills.

        https://cleanairtas.com/gunns-pulp-mill/Pulp-Mill-Protest-Laws1.pdf

        • Russell

          September 18, 2019 at 6:00 pm

          I should add that this is the largest DELIBERATE genocide EVER, and neither the UN nor anyone else in an authorative position is doing anything about it !!!

  17. Lyndall

    September 15, 2019 at 10:30 am

    There’s a very good article in the Sydney Morning Herald – ‘An ill wind fans the flames’ (by Peter Hannan, Sept 14 2019):

    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/an-ill-wind-fans-the-flames-20190912-p52qir.html

    A lot is covered and it is very informative, I think. Mention is even made about the University of Tasmania’s AirRater app which has been rolled out. Kudos to diligent and proactive researchers in a Tassie institution, and perhaps some small credit should also go to tenacious citizen change-agents like Clive Stott!

    The wildfire events in Tasmania’s and Queensland’s ancient forests and peat-soil ecosystems are terribly saddening, and an assault of historic significance. Along with the other numerous wildfires now occurring annually, simultaneously and out of traditional fire seasons, we are (in my opinion) watching a stepped process of extinction – and that’s just by fire. Life as we know it – the system we rely upon – is slowly converting into a post-Anthropocene era.

    This makes me angry, and frustrated. We need to get our act together and start acting on this as a climate emergency.

    As for managing the wildfires – well, we can’t stop the influence of droughts and what’s already manifest from Climate Change, but we can stop the ‘business as usual’ attitude in fire management and start approaching all fire incidents as real emergency situations.

    Forget the reliance on crude, failed and flawed annual planned burning to supposedly stop wildfires as it clearly doesn’t, and it has taken our attention away from where we should be more targeted and focused.

    We should use our intelligence, and be determined to take control of fire when we have the best opportunity .. at the very beginning. We should use the very best ways to get to the fire as quickly as possible to deliver the required ‘critical water flow rate’ to enable suppression. (See Penney et al. 2019 for example: https://www.bnhcrc.com.au/publications/biblio/bnh-5299 )

    The game has changed and ramped up, and this is now a war – a War Against Wildfires – and we should wake up and adapt very quickly.

    • Russell

      September 16, 2019 at 11:09 am

      The best, and only real answer, is to put appropriate measures in place, and to take immediate action to stop and reverse Climate Change .. with heavy penalties for non-compliance.

      Stop adding CO2 and methane to the atmosphere. Stop mining and using fossil fuels. Stop land clearing. Re-forest the planet with endemic species. Stop farming animals for export, and farm native ones instead .. for domestic sale only. Stop excessive water extraction. Stop growing exotic crops (eg: rice, sugar, wheat, bananas) in environments where they don’t belong, and which use poisonous chemicals and causes the over-extraction of water and soil minerals. Stop polluting every single square millimetre of our planet. Stop producing products which cannot be 100% recycled. Make sure that EVERYTHING is recycled. Make products which last decades, like they used to, instead of the throw-away rubbish being produced today.

      Indigenous Australians in the past (and some still do) prevented bushfires with intimate knowledge and tried and true fire practices. The NT authorities sometimes use this expertise today BUT the introduced weeds from overseas (eg: South African grasses with a higher sugar content and taller profile like gamba and mission) have changed the landscape and made it dangerously flammable.

      In Tasmania the introduced weeds (eg: Euc nitens), and its unnaturally close-planted forests replacing rainforests, are the main reason for our wildfires now.

      What is wrong with growing and using what naturally belongs somewhere?

    • Rob Halton

      September 16, 2019 at 12:39 pm

      Lyndall, while I am not too sure about your description of the “tenacious change agent” Clive Stott who in my opinion is nothing more than an old fickler within the Climate Action plan agenda! He appears to more worried about my wood heater emissions than land clearing by burning rainforests in Brazil, Borneo and Sarawak which is an increasingly major concern for the globe!

      I am happy to support former Liberal leader’s John Hewson’s initiative to influence the Federal cross bench to warn PM Morrison its high time for action now especially given the entire major inland rivers system in Qld, NSW and N Vic is under threat from prolonged drought and there is an urgent need to halt extensive land clearing and vastly reduce the growing of non food crops for export within this region of the nation that has always been subject to variable weather from floods to drought since settlement!

      Extensive cropping with extensive irrigation in the region and little left for water for environmental flows and domestic water supply both requires the urgent action from the Coalition as it is clear the region is in crisis.

      PM Morrison also needs to urgently address the Gladys Liu situation, in my opinion the Liberals are in damage control for supporting her untruths. the Asian century spiel is now over for Australia, the Federal government must progressively retract from Chinese influence within Australia once and for all! The Belt in the Road influence does not benefit our nation as it only compromises our integrity as a democratic nation to look after our own affairs without adverse foreign influence

      I doubt very much if 100% Renewables is achievable by 2030, that is basically tomorrow as the decades flash past us however I am happy to listen to what could be actually achievable annually and I suspect we will remain with a gradual move away from coal maybe not gas.

      We are facing what are potentially uncertain times globally in the few few days as an indicative 9/11 type drone strike on Saudi Arabia’s oil reserves by either the Yemenis or Iran has occured depending on who one believes! What about our fuel reserves as national security risks increases, how about using our gas as a source of fuel and lessen exports to sustain levels for local use particularly as an international “war”.on fuel is suddenly appearing edging closer to our doorstep!

      Some good news for Tasmania recent spring rains and the the Basslink down time has increased our Hydro lakes water storage capacity watch the slow but steady increasing levels of Lake Gordon, Great Lake and Lake Echo. East Coast drought may not be entirely over but again spring rains may continue for the next month or so to bring the SDI down even lower.

      The move away from fossil fuels is a very complex issue for any nation living in modern times but it may be too great a step to rapidly reduce consumption by sending us further into the unknown, unfortunately for some of the anti fossil fuel zealots that is a fact!

      • Clive Stott

        September 16, 2019 at 6:35 pm

        Robin, in my opinion you are a “major concern for the globe.”

        Your credibility is shot in a climate change discussion when you skite about using a wood heater as old and non-compliant as yours.

        Russell has the answer with “What is wrong with growing and using what naturally belongs somewhere?”

        It’s funny how Basslink just broke to let the lakes fill, isn’t it? Nothing heard since August 26th. Of course not! I don’t mind these porkies if Tasmanians received reduced electricity prices as a result of the ‘extra power’ going to waste.

        Lyndall, that is a great article, thank you, and yes, we must jump on any fires the minute they start with sufficient resources, and must not risk deaths from escaped planned burns or the smoke from them.

        It has now got to the point where we are seeing fires pop up in places that have already burned just two years later: https://phys.org/news/2017-09-australia.html

        Mechanical fuel reduction could/should be used rather than sitting around whinging about not being able to burn because the burn window has got shorter. Well, who helped cause it by using our air/atmosphere as a sewer?

        The benefits are enormous and this must be revisited. https://cleanairtas.com/departments/investing-in-bushfire-prevention-strategies.pdf

      • Russell

        September 17, 2019 at 9:46 am

        “I doubt very much if 100% Renewables is achievable by 2030, that is basically tomorrow as the decades flash past us however I am happy to listen to what could be actually achievable annually.”

        I’ve already given you all the answers, and more than once or twice Robin, but you’re too myopically thick to understand or even contemplate them.

  18. MJF

    September 12, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    Mr Halton

    The golf course issue in a “natural world class A zone landscape” partially covered here

    https://tasmaniantimes.com/2014/08/answering-some-questions-on-solis/

    Stalled presumably for the usual reasons – lack of money, water, sewerage, enthusiasm, change of councillors, too many golf courses, lack of business case, Hodgman government support waivering, change of ministers etc etc

    No evidence of forestry involvement yet but maybe not too late of course, Particularly with critical swift parrot foraging and breeding habitat still upright on site and must be beckoning the tree murderers. What a pity no Triabunna chipper to shove it all into. You know, just like the good old days eh lads ?

    Maybe Tassal can get hold of it and turn it into a prawn farm, who needs FNQ ?

  19. Lyndall Rowley

    September 11, 2019 at 8:58 am

    URGENT CALL …

    Some TTers might agree that our federal government isn’t taking climate change seriously. There’s a Greenpeace ‘Break Free’ campaign petition just in that is calling for us to let our Australian Parliament know that we need to act, as well as officially declaring a climate emergency: “Very soon, the Australian Parliament will vote on whether to declare a national climate emergency. The motion will be backed by Former Liberal Party leader John Hewson and members of the crossbench.”

    If you’re interested in signing, go here:

    (Please supply the full link. Yours arrived truncated – Moderator)

    Thank you everyone.

    Lyndall: If you haven’t heard, there is going to be a Global Climate Strike on 20th September, 2019 with other activities as well. There are already 80 strikes organised for around Australia. See here if you’re interested:

    (Please supply the full link. Yours arrived truncated – Moderator)

  20. Clive Stott

    September 11, 2019 at 4:17 am

    Robin: Re wood smoke and our climate …

    I am putting this Doctors and Scientists link up for the kids, but you might like to peruse it also.
    https://woodsmokepollution.org/climate.html

    As a wood burner yourself, and one who advocates ‘burn baby burn’ when it comes to planned burning, you might like to dig deeper within its References at https://woodsmokepollution.org/references.html

    • Rob Halton

      September 11, 2019 at 3:41 pm

      Thanks Clive I read your insert, as I said earlier it makes little difference whether a wood heater is certified or not, all woodheaters give off a certain degree of emissions so dry wood and a good understanding of woodheater operation is essential to give the best results to lessen emissions.

      My guess is when roof solar and improved battery storage capacity occurs along with a reduction in pricing for the consumer then we may see the uptake of more electric heating . Hydronic heating may interest me using fixed water filled panels without moving parts and not those nasty reverse cycle units that after a short time of use end up as nuisance debris being crushed at tip site could be the way foward for us in the future.

      Change from woodheating is all a matter of when the costs add up for the consumer to actually make the change, burning of wood to some degree for heating and cold weather comfort will always be with us in the colder parts of Australia in some shape and form regardless of who is in power.

      Planned burning is a part of regular community fuel reduction to reduce fuel loads and create safe living space cleared of inflammable debris. Similarly logging slash is burnt in addition to regenerate most of the commercial eucalypt species post harvesting especially for the wet eucalypt forest species to reduce shade cover and open up healthy emerging seeding to sunlight and providing an initial natural seed bed to enable successful strike. Similar circumstances happen after severe bushfire given there is a period of sufficient seed fall. it basically nature at work within our Australian landscape.

      The recent fire in Qld, NSW are a reflection of both somewhat lack of attention to manage extensive and regular fuel reduction, extended drought conditions where populations are keen to have trust in living in closeness to the gum trees dispersed among inflammable scrub. The cost of living close to the Australian bush most of which is dependent on fire can never be underestimated and has been well documented since white settlement.

      Hopefully everybody concerned learns from this experience so early in the fire season.

      It does appear that our forests are burning at a more frequent rate,sign of the times unfortunately, point taken.

      • max

        September 12, 2019 at 3:01 pm

        Rob, You’re proof positive that you can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

        All smoke is a dangerous health hazard, be it your wonderful wood heater or your outdated belief in regeneration burns or fuel reduction burns. Your wood heater is a danger to your neighbours, anyone else down wind, or any one in your house when you open the fire door.

        Regeneration burns are a cheap way of propagating and cleanup. Fuel reductions burns promote fire loving plants and future fires. To sum it up, your belief in burn, burn, burn belongs with the Neanderthals.

        The American dollar has no value as it’s a bit of paper. Australia foolishly sold its gold and followed America, and in doing so our dollar achieved no real value .. as it’s only a piece of paper.

        China, India and Russia are buying gold and basing their currency on a gold standard. Most or all global strife is caused by America fighting tooth and nail to protect its dollar, the PetroDollar, but can America continue to prop up its dollar by war, or more importantly should Australia continue to fight Americas wars?

        America has invaded 42 countries since its inception, and 47 if you count the Native Americans. I’ve probably missed a few countries the CIA overthrew or which they have done a drone strike on.
        Something to notice is that about half of their invasions of other countries happened in the past 50 years. America has invaded as many countries in the past 50 years as it has in the other 188 years of its existence. Can we trust it?

        Saddam Hussein did but he had oil that America wanted. Compared with America, China is benign. It’s our main trading partner and possible will be the new superpower. Morrison should pull his head in and tread lightly on the world stage. Australia is only a minnow in a sea of sharks.

      • Clive Stott

        September 13, 2019 at 1:18 am

        Robin says ” … it makes little difference whether a wood heater is certified or not.”
        Where did you get this information? It seems that what you don’t know you make up!

        Go with the science, but I guess you would say that too, makes little difference.

        Your wood ‘eater is a smoke generator and would never pass Certification. That is the difference.

      • Russell

        September 13, 2019 at 10:19 am

        “Similarly logging slash is burnt in addition to regenerate most of the commercial eucalypt species post harvesting especially for the wet eucalypt forest species to reduce shade cover and open up healthy emerging seeding to sunlight and providing an initial natural seed bed to enable successful strike.”

        This is absolutely false! You don’t need to burn the debris when you are planting seedlings. Ash only unlocks the seed itself, and rainforests are NEVER MEANT TO BURN and DON’T require ash to germinate their seeds AT ALL!

        Toxic plantations and white fella (un)controlled ‘planned burns’ are the main causes of bushfires/wildfires in Australia.

  21. Rob Halton

    September 9, 2019 at 5:40 am

    “Your country needs you” would be the message that the schoolies will have to face and I would suggest sooner than later to engage the young fit and educated persons engaged in a range of professions that support the basis for a rapid changeover for military prepardeness!

    Instead of Qld Premier Palaczuch being dependent on jobs and growth to be provided by Adani coal mining and export, the revival of the Townsville area with a focus on the military and supporting industries could make more sense and be more acceptable approach to stave off population decline where coal appears to be facing an unclear future with generating electricity apart from its use for the metal smelting industries.

    Given the current international politics between the West and China there is a likely political showdown on the horizon where it may be prudent for Australia to cease or at least slow down coal exports to China as the turning point in relation ships to now occurring.

    In the medium termI have no direct problem with coal exports to India assuming that they wish to continue on that path at least for some time unless alternative measures come into being with their use of coal for both energy generation and smelting and heavy industry manufacturing.
    Its important Australia regards India as a trustworthy ally into the future unlike China who only insists that its expansionist path is via its own Belt and Road initiative outside the democratic principles of government and expression of social freedoms.

    PM Morrison currently has managed to establish a reasonable stable Coalition government without the internal dissent since the Howard government was in power!,

    There has to be an opportunity for the Climate Change schoolies strikes who must at least to provide solutions for jobs, lifestyle and continued well being among us!

    Striking without a clear objective is useless.
    Limiting population growth via immigration to Australia may be the key to scaling back on continued dependence of the use of fossil fuels as an example!

    • max

      September 9, 2019 at 11:18 am

      Rob, your faith in Morrison and his government is staggering.

      Should Australia put faith in America for defence and antagonise China, a rising superpower, our main trading partner and a country that could possibly defeat America in the near future? That’s food for thought. Has America ever come to our aid and should we pick sides in a possible global conflict?

      In March 1942 General Douglas MacArthur arrived in Australia, mainly because he had been pushed out of the Philippines by the Japanese. The Americans needed a base in the region to protect their own interests and Australia was as good a spot as any. The protection of Australia was therefore a by-product, not a goal.

      Since WW2 Australia has fought America’s wars .. Korea, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq.

      When you look at who buys our goods and services there is only one game in town: China. China can buy what we sell anywhere, and our whole economy is tottering on the knife edge of a Chinese whim.

      The fossil fuel industry is destroying the future of mankind, and our kids are right. The youth of the world will have no future if their governments, such as the Morrison Government, do not wake up to reality.

      Energy Vault is the creator of gravity and kinetic energy based, long-duration energy storage solutions that are transforming the world’s approach to delivering reliable and sustainable electricity. It is only one of many ways to store long term or short term renewable energy.

      The Snowy hydro scheme is failing because of Climate Change. Tasmanian hydro power is in danger of the same thing.

      Morrison has to stop wasting money on pie-in-the-sky dreams of pumped hydro and coal, and face the stark reality of Climate Change.

      • Rob Halton

        September 10, 2019 at 3:38 pm

        Max welcome back top the fray where we can actively and openly debate the Australian way of life in various terms of both opposition, agreement and the fuzzy in between stuff.

        Morrison unlike other PM.s in recent times faces unprecedented challenges brought about lazy policy and political big talk by previous governments, probably starting with Rudd and the disturbing news from Gillard that “this is the Asian Century”, of cause really meaning this is the Chinese Century!

        Morrison has no choice to face the hard realities otherwise coast his way through this term of Federal Government to ignore the difficult international politics on our doorstep. My view is Morrison is not a quitter and we should all be hopeful of his determination to ensure Australia is not taken over by politically adverse foreign ownership that compromises both our economy, lifestyle, national security and leaves us politically considered as the bland “White Trash in our region.

        The elephant in the room, is the way “tribal” national governments of our Pacific Island nations including Timor Leste are falling prey to the Chinese loans to prop up their either poor and corrupt management of their own finances and at the same time expecting foreign aid from Australia in a form a direct handout to their poorly administered economies!

        The Chinese want their minerals, timber oil and gas, we urgently seek out their cooperation for installation of military bases in what we must consider is essential infrastructure to protect our broader region from foreign invasion.

        Morrison has much to do on both a national basis within our region while the Opposition under Albanese has to rebuild Labor from the ground up,that is a fact even if you dont like it, Shorten was both weak shifty and unpopular and would have never been a trustworthy PM. A thing that I admire from Albanese he is honest and down to earth but not yet up to creating an effective Opposition. Morrison rules “supreme” so to speak and has relatively united the Coalition since the demise of Turnbull and Abbott.

        Max, Peace time as we know it cannot last forever nor can Australia be expected to absorb the millions on the waiting lists of of overseas diaspora who want to study, work and support families in their countries of origin struggling against their undemocratic nations who have completely lost control of what humanity is meant to stand for!

        • Russell

          September 11, 2019 at 4:07 pm

          “The elephant in the room is the way “tribal” national governments of our Pacific Island nations including Timor Leste are falling prey to the Chinese loans to prop up their either poor and corrupt management of their own finances and at the same time expecting foreign aid from Australia in a form a direct handout to their poorly administered economies!”

          Completely wrong again. Australia only helped East Timor to get its hands on the oil and gas fields – illegally. With Australia as a friend, who needs enemies? Our recent governments have learned well from the USA, as they learned well from Nazi Germany.

          The Chinese are helping these countries while Australia treats them as a dumping ground and an off-shore prison.

          “their undemocratic nations who have completely lost control of what humanity is meant to stand for!”

          What a crock! Ours is the undemocratic nation with absolutely NO regard for humanity. It’s all about pathetic slogans and money, money, money for now – and to hell with the near and far future.

    • Russell

      September 9, 2019 at 1:20 pm

      Robin, you’re as backward as a person could be. I’ve already provided you with all the facts about renewable energy replacing fossil-fuel pollution, but your head is stuck in the coal seam. I have never witnessed such a constantly ignorant and ill-informed person in my life.

      TT and its readers would be so much the richer for your non-comment.

  22. Peter Black

    September 8, 2019 at 7:05 pm

    On the current Fires …

    The burning of Binna Burra Lodge in Queensland:

    “Griffith University ecologist Darryl Jones said he was devastated by the news.

    “It’s a remarkable place. It’s a rainforest, it’s a lush wet green place — how can it be burning?” Professor Jones said.

    Yes, rainforests burning! Not dry sclerophyll forests, but rainforests!

  23. Peter Black

    September 8, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    On the current Fires …

    “NSW RFS Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons said the early fires were an indication of a dangerous bushfire season ahead.

    “Never before have we recorded extreme fire danger conditions this early in the month of September,” he said.

    “Normally, you would expect those sorts of conditions as you come closer into the summer months.

    “It is a sobering reminder of what is ahead, with the outlook indicating the next three or four months is dominated by above-average temperatures, below average rainfall and unfortunately there is no meaningful signal anywhere for drought-breaking, relieving rain.”

    And they still think its just another drought! It seems Australia will have to be brought to its knees before it acknowledges the seriousness of Climate Change, and what it means for the future.

    How sad for our children’s children.

  24. Rob Halton

    September 2, 2019 at 9:47 am

    The current Basslink outage current est. till mid Oct lost, electricity exports may reach $20 over that period. The Hydro are saying that lake levels are about 10% above “prudent” storage levels for this time of the year and twelve of the states network of dams are spilling!

    All very well but if one looks more closely at the overall water storage situation then Lake Gordon which accounts for 35% of Tasmania’s water storage is only at 23m below full supply level but is now steadily filling for which must be a plus for the Hydro during the outage!

    From a visual aspect/ environmental Lake Gordon at its present levels is a disaster, the opportunity for the lake to fill further during the Basslink shutdown has many positives and I would look foward to spending some time on the lake with my dinghy visiting the various bays and inlets on this potentially expansive stretch of water during this summer.

    Lake Gordon has a capacity of 12359 Mega litres, a catchment of 2014 km2 and a mean annual rainfall of around 2525mm/ annum.
    Its about time the Hydro showed a more prudent approach to both conserving electricity usage as well as presenting the public with a more reasonable approach to the way it manages its infrastructure.

    As for us Tasmanians we are fortunate to have Renewable generation resources so to speak, given that periods of drought can occur at any time and the increasing unreliability of Basslink, , talk of politically inventive wording such as ‘prudent storage levels I am left wondering if we are being led up the garden path when it comes to future energy reliability.

    In my opinion our connection with the SE states via Basslink needs further investigation to ultimately establish as to whether or not it has been successfully an economic outcome for Tasmania as I suspect another Link Marinius) even with the additional wind farms expansion in Tasmania may end up as an expensive farce for the state now being tagged as the Battery of the Nation!

    Well I can say Lake Gordon is the Battery for Tasmania and it needs to be treated as such and not as an ugly exposed drainage ditch to supply unsustainable electricity user for the mainlands benefit and a quick buck chasing Hydro’s bottom line.

    • Rob Halton

      September 3, 2019 at 2:36 pm

      There needs to be more of frank and open discussion about the entirety of Hydro’s role and commitment to supply reliable, sustainable and reasonably priced for Tasmanians first and foremost. Too bad the Hydro lose $20M over the Basslink Shutdown as more needs to be done to establish if another link would be viable as the current one is now subject to faults, perhaps the distance across Bass Strait is an overreach beyond being technically feasible and reliable over the limited cable capacity to carry electricity the under sea distance!

      An expensive experiment or a wild gamble, opposition to the cost and economics of a 2nd cable, would come as no surprise.by Tasmanian public! Battery of the Nation maybe just political talk that the Hydro has to promote regardless of the technical implications,

      Victoria shut down Heazlewood without a replacement being developed by the State. In the medium term there is no time to focus on emissions free garble by the Andrews government.

      The Morrison government needs to step up rapidly to protect the national interest, in doing so the nation needs to retool and increase its onshore metallurgical output to supply us with equipment to defend ourselves against the impending threats to our north. Alliance with the US is strengthening but we as a nation will need to take a much stronger stand than just being distracted by too many emissions free energy strategies that would ultimately be lead to our peril!

      I reckon that Morrison already knows what is happening around us, I do and it is plain as day, keeping Australia safe and secure in our part of the world,it is a huge task as many changes and extra demands will be needed especially by our young and fit population.

      If the current actions by those brave young Hong Kongers standing up against the Communist China for democratic freedom is anything to go on then massive change in terms of trade and diplomacy within our region will be hard won.

      Those schoolies who are to hold their Climate Change protests on September 20th by then coal will not even rate as a national concern at all.

      Wake up Australia.
      ,

      • Peter Bright

        September 4, 2019 at 3:25 pm

        Robin, John Kerry at https://tinyurl.com/Kerryswakeupcall had this to say:

        “We can’t leave climate emergency to ‘neanderthals’ in power” and also this “Humanity risks marching off a cliff unless governments take immediate action to fight the climate emergency.”

        You and your Liberal pals are still looking out the schoolroom window, daydreaming as usual. I recall my teacher throwing the chalk at kids who did that! Fast and accurate they were!

        Don’t face reality and it will go away. Yeah, sure.

        The Trumpian Liberals with their selfish, cruel and exploitative attitudes and behaviour are not fit to govern anywhere, and those drongos who mindlessly vote for them are entirely undeserving of good government. Mind you, Labor under Bill Shorten became Liberal Lite, and now under Anthony Albanese it’s become Liberal Ultra-Lite!

        Even the working class mindlessly voted against Labor at the last federal election. Such rampant foolishness! Sure, the hand that holds the pen in the voting booth is free, but the mind that moves the hand is not. It’s been very effectively nobbled. Democracy it is not. Labor voters still don’t realise that they are thoroughly indoctrinated into programmed puppetry by the so-called right wing media outlets who consider only themselves and their kind in pursuing their owns selfish interests at the expense of humanity and the planet.

        Have you noticed that these unprincipled parasites inveigle their way into high positions in business and government for this very purpose? And yes, some will have infiltrated every local council, too.

        • Peter Bright

          September 7, 2019 at 7:10 pm

          “Labor voters still don’t realise that they are thoroughly indoctrinated into programmed puppetry by the so-called right wing media outlets who consider only themselves and their kind in pursuing their owns selfish interests at the expense of humanity and the planet.”

          I’ve never known my fellow Australians to be so ignorant and uncaring about the nation’s welfare as they are now. They seem mesmerised by triumphant media propagandists who’ve never held such evil sway as they do now.

          Look here https://tinyurl.com/Murdochthedestroyer where Kevin Rudd says “The Murdoch media has mutated to become a cancerous growth on our democracy. It no longer even pretends to be a media organisation, separating out news coverage from editorial option. Instead it has become a de facto political party prosecuting its own ideological and economic interests, acting as an effective coalition partner of the Liberal party.”

          And Robin, don’tcha just love it?

      • Russell

        September 5, 2019 at 9:18 pm

        Robin, did you watch the ABC 7.30 Report tonight where the farmers of Numurkah were welcoming solar farms on their properties with open arms?

        Six farmers are now being employed on one property where there used to be just one, AND they are running sheep under the panels where grass can now grow due to the shade provided. Additionally, the town businesses have opened, or been able to employ more people, because of them.

        It seems that you were wrong once again, and I was correct.

        • Rob Halton

          September 9, 2019 at 6:10 am

          Russell, absolutely agree with the solar farm concept to create intermittent energy but unfortunately the sun does not shine at night, well unless Climate Change changes all of that too!

          Unless there is a massive shift in new technology to create affordable and ultra reliable battery storage, then after dark we remain faithful to good old Base Load supplies via hydro, coal or gas! If the current electricity supply from the solar farm is only day time use then so it be!

          The life of a solar farm, Chinese panel replacements, what every 15-25 years! About time we started manufacture of far superior product within Australia to supply ongoing installations that supplement our base load supply!.

          Its good to see low stature non destructive animals such as sheep can still graze on the pasture provided around the solar panel installation.

          • Russell

            September 9, 2019 at 1:12 pm

            The sun will not shine at all if your coal mining continues.

            I have given you all the evidence for renewable energy which also replaces your dinosaur-aged “base load” power systems, but you haven’t bothered to read it or your head is so deeply embedded in a coal seam that you can’t see the sun anyway.

            “Its good to see low stature non destructive animals such as sheep can still graze on the pasture provided around the solar panel installation.”

            Once again you’ve displayed complete ignorance of facts as sheep are one of the most destructive animals on the planet, eating everything including the roots.They, like humans, are more closely related to a virus or cancer than an animal. They both move into an area, consume everything, then move on to devastate the next.

    • Clive Stott

      September 4, 2019 at 6:22 pm

      Have you ever thought they turned BassLink off again to let the dams fill, and thereby to bolster the argument for a 2nd Interconnector?

      • Rob Halton

        September 5, 2019 at 7:32 am

        Clive are you crazy! By all means express your views but cant you possibly come to some point of understanding the importance of water security!

        I can also see it another way the means for State water security for the state with a massive investment in piped water for rural communities to bolster agricultural pursuits! Tasmania should continue down its own Food Bowl path as piped water has already bolstered food security in the Sorell Forcett area with a massive impact on local production, much is sold locally as is exported to the mainland!

        In my opinion it is pointless to keep building dams on the East Coast, for example, water catchment on the Prosser River is insufficient and unreliable given regular droughts that are occurring.
        Piped water over long distances is a regular event in WA, pipes were observed along many of the roads in the state, have you ever been to WA!
        Clive, plenty of clean air coming off the Indian and Southern Ocean, you would love it for a change leaving smoggy old freezing Launnie behind for a well earned winter break, mate!

        Tasmanian government must be encouraged to sit down not only with farmers but the general public and small business who would depend on reticulated water to bolster their tank supplies.

        Knowing the Tas government who remain inclined to think on a less than enthusiastic path, it would take yonks before they even wake up that climate adjustment procedures should already be in place and are an integral part of everyday existence. It seems they are more interested in Cable Car and chasing South Arm golf course development which will slurp up millions of litres of valuable H2O on a dry wind swept site along the Derwent estuary.

        Given limited water resources around the Swansea area both the State government and the G and SB Council should be wary of the Chinese Investment at Cumbria, ripping up natural country side for golf courses and retirement / tourism ventures for rich Asians who have no idea of the drought infested environment that occurs on the East Coast. I believe that on Freycinet there is a proposal to either raise an existing dam and build another to support an extended 5* tourist development! Look at Louisville near Triabunna, natural world class A zone landscape looking across to Maria lsland, dozed and quarried for rock, supposed intended for an exclusive Greg Norman golf course development, abandoned now that the damage is done!

        Maybe it time for the Schoolies on September 20th to broaden their horizons environmentally, undertake some field visits around our state first of all, indeed think along terms of what is happening closer to home!

        • Russell

          September 7, 2019 at 9:12 am

          “By all means express your views but cant you possibly come to some point of understanding the importance of water security!”

          Then why do you advocate irrigation, the most wasteful misuse of our country’s limited water supply, and the cause of land salinity?

          “Piped water over long distances is a regular event in WA, pipes were observed along many of the roads in the state, have you ever been to WA!”

          You mean the one and only water pipeline between Mundaring and Kalgoorlie? I think you’re mistaking every other gas pipeline you see across WA as a water pipe, and so, as usual, a little lacking of the actual facts.

          “Clive, plenty of clean air coming off the Indian and Southern Ocean.”

          Sorry, but the cleanest air in the world is now reading CO2 at 407.87 ppm at the Cape Grim monitoring station. It passed 400 ppm in May 2016, and it just keeps rising.

          “Look at Louisville near Triabunna, natural world class A zone landscape looking across to Maria lsland, dozed and quarried for rock, supposed intended for an exclusive Greg Norman golf course development, abandoned now that the damage is done!”

          That sounds like something forestry would do.

          You’re amazing! Where do you get all your misinformation from? Your extraction industries are destroying our planet ,and all life on it.

          Every household and business should be forced to catch and store all their own water for personal use, and anything further supplied by water authorities should then be heavily charged for. The same goes for electricity. It seems only then, will people appreciate and wake up to what is happening in the REAL world.

          Robin, maybe it’s time for you to undertake some field visits around our state and country with your eyes and mind open to the FACTS for a change, and then fall in line with all the Schoolies on September 20th to do something environmentally responsible for just once in your life!

        • Clive Stott

          September 8, 2019 at 3:51 am

          Robin, is that an invitation for the Schoolies to come to your place to look over your geriatric wood heater which definitely contributes to climate change? That would be right up their alley.

          Where do you think Basslink fits in with our Tasmanian water security?

          Even you, mentioned the strange words used to describe our current water levels when the Interconnector went down this last time.

          To coincide with our rainy season Basslink is turned off. Now this ‘fault’ would have nothing to do with “ .. providing Victoria and southern states with secure renewable energy during times of peak demand”, that is, summer air conditioning, would it?

          BassLink has not provided an update since the 26th August to declare when the cable will be turned back on.

          In the meantime I guess Australia just burns more coal.

  25. MJF

    August 26, 2019 at 10:52 am

    The ever-observant Mr Halton claims the Shepparton locals are not too happy with solar farm incursions. It appear there’s some substance to this claim.

    “Independent member for Shepparton Suzanna Sheed was concerned because the three proposed farms — at Lemnos, Tallygaroopna and Tatura East — were located on prime irrigation land.”

    We all know how trustworthy and reliable independent government members are!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-20/numurkah-solar-farm-to-power-tram-network/11327346

    As a side note, never have I seen such visual pollution as these large-scale solar installations! Second only to vineyards as landscape catastrophies with total ignorance of amenity planning. Give me tree plantations any day, as an example in land use excellence.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-23/solar-farms-approved-goulburn-valley/11443774

    How does the subject of irrigated land, which has had millions in government funding spent on it, suddenly revert to a “long-term drought-stricken region with very little usable agricultural land” as proposed by TT’s resident expert, Mr Langfield ?

    Clearly, things have changed since he was a runny-nosed lad in a loin cloth “growing up” in those parts.

    • Russell

      August 26, 2019 at 7:40 pm

      “Independent member for Shepparton Suzanna Sheed was concerned because the three proposed farms — at Lemnos, Tallygaroopna and Tatura East — were located on prime irrigation land.”

      So why are the farmers happy to have these wind farms if their “prime irrigation land” was so viable and prosperous otherwise?

      Methinks you, like Robin, have never been in or around Shepparton. I grew up in the area. It hardly rains any more. Much of the Murray/Darling system is under enormous stress and completely dry in places, mainly due to illegal irrigation practices (even though no-one seems to be facing the Courts for it), and as a result irrigators may not be getting much of an allocation this year, if any – again.

      “As a side note, never have I seen such visual pollution as these large-scale solar installations!”

      And you think coal-fired power stations are pretty? Or for that matter, thousands of hectares of felled weed plantations littered with rubbish, weeds and resulting in bushfires and blackened skies – and all for ZERO profit? But you’re part of that industry aren’t you Martin, so one can see why you would be blind or even supportive of such destruction and waste.

      You probably think little Johnny Howard was a hero too, seeing he told billionaire Pratt to shove his philanthropic offer to pipe the Murray irrigation canals.

      “How does the subject of irrigated land, which has had millions in government funding spent on it, suddenly revert to a “long-term drought-stricken region with very little usable agricultural land” as proposed by TT’s resident expert, Mr Langfield ?”

      Hmm, this is another example of one finger pointing at others and three pointing back at oneself. Just because millions, or billions for that matter, are spent on anything (eg the Tasmanian forest industry) it doesn’t mean that those dollars were very well spent. Look at the DECADES of zero profit your industry has consumed for nought but destruction! Do you know that over 90% of that diverted irrigation water is lost through seepage and evaporation, Martin?

      In relation to your “long-term drought-stricken region with very little usable agricultural land” I say again that you mustn’t have ever been up that way.

      Do you ever watch that pathetic show Landline where they showcase all these cattle and sheep farms, or I should say dustbowls, with the farmers saying “we’ve been doing this for generations, we have to keep doing it” or “I need to cut down more trees to graze my stock which I already can’t feed on my existing (treeless and grassless) paddocks?”

      I think when you really know what you’re talking about, and have actually been to the places you are trying to claim some sort of knowledge about, people might take a little of what you and Robin say seriously .. with a grain of salt – or should that be salination?

      But I doubt it.

    • Clive Stott

      August 27, 2019 at 2:43 am

      “… Give me tree plantations any day, as an example in land use excellence.”

      MJF, you know that same age, same height plantations aid bushfires by changing wind patterns.

      Have a look at Oregon. Are all the plantation fires and smoke they experience what you want for Tasmania?

      Land use excellence? Hardly!

    • Peter Bright

      August 27, 2019 at 10:20 am

      Robin Halton said “At the end of the day while solar including wind and batteries have their benefits it remains that on an industrial scale RELIABLE BASE LOAD electricity is still derived from the use of either fossil fuels and hydro.”

      Important finding: https://tinyurl.com/GoRenewables “The Australian Institute audit found nuclear power would not be suitable for Australia’s electricity sector.”

      It has been repeatedly proven that man-made nuclear is loaded with potentially deadly risks, but sunshine is nuclear power that is absolutely safe for mankind and the planet.

      • Clive Stott

        August 28, 2019 at 3:34 am

        And speaking of reliable base load power, well, neither Tasmania nor the mainland can rely on Basslink to supply this.

        “… Basslink has notified the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) that the interconnector will be offline until mid-October.” http://www.basslink.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190826_Basslink_Media-statement.pdf

        Haven’t you noticed that whenever there is talk of Basslink 2, BassLink just happens to ‘fail’? Beware of throwing billions at another interconnector if it is this unreliable!

        The excess power they talk about, that we cannot sell to the mainland whilst Basslink is ‘turned off’, should be gifted to Tasmanian pensioners.

        • Peter Bright

          August 28, 2019 at 6:42 am

          I don’t pretend to have any understanding of BassLink, BassLink 2 or Interconnectors, so what follows might be the voice of ignorance, but here goes:

          It seems to me that with the reducing price of large-scale mass-produced solar modules there is no excuse for Tasmania, Victoria, and all other states everywhere, to Go Solar, big time. The other Oz states are way bigger than Tasmania, they get more solar energy per square kilometre, and they are wealthier, too!

          In my evaluation the only unsolved challenge is to securely store solar energy reliably, and in quantities that can absolutely guarantee long-term supply everywhere, preferably for months but ideally for years.

          But how?

          Hydrogen?

          • Russell

            August 28, 2019 at 9:17 am

            Hi Clive and Peter,

            Solar Salt Towers is the answer you are seeking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower

            With regard to nuclear, the only ‘safe’ form, apart from the sun, are Thorium reactors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

          • Peter Bright

            August 28, 2019 at 12:21 pm

            Hello Russell,

            It seems to me that solar powered towers are best suited for industrial use where a large-scale consumer, let’s say a huge mine, has its own tower.

            Of much greater interest to me is reliable energy for domestic purposes, and I doubt if solar powered towers would be suitable for that.

            You have LiFePO batteries at your rural premises and you have many times recommended them to TT’s readers, but I don’t recall any responses because the average citizen doesn’t know a volt from an amp, but what’s worse than that is that he doesn’t want to. Maths. Too hard. Go away.

            At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery there’s this:

            “Because of low cost, low toxicity, well-defined performance, long-term stability, etc. LiFePO4 is finding a number of roles in vehicle use, utility scale stationary applications, and backup power.

            Compared to other lithium chemistries, LFP experiences much slower degradation when stored in a fully charged state. This makes LFP a good choice for standby use.”

            These statements make me think that these batteries would be eminently suitable for storing energy secured from the photovoltaic arrays on every home’s roof. Just how many coulombs should be installed depends on how much energy the homeowner wants to bank, eg 7 days, or a fortnight, or a month, or several months.

            Another device for reliable energy storage is the flywheel, but we hear nothing of it. Why not? I don’t know.

            In the domestic situation the flywheel’s motor receives energy directly from rooftop photovoltaic arrays and this spins its rotor. Mechanical energy is stored in its mass, its shape, and its rotational velocity, and that energy is instantly converted to electricity on demand when the rotor’s motor becomes a generator. Jolly bonza, I say. There’s more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage

            I can’t evaluate thorium reactors because of my ignorance about them, but I’d prefer non-nuclear methods.

            Russell, batteries such as yours, reliable as they are, eventually conk out and then there’s the capital cost of replacing them. Flywheel energy storage systems apparently last forever with just routine maintenance.

            I’d like to see every home energised by its own flywheel under the flowerbed. Why not? I don’t know.

            Reader answers are welcome.

          • Simon Warriner

            August 28, 2019 at 6:55 pm

            By leaving water in the dams!

            It is dead simple. When solar and wind are generating you turn the hydro generator excitation voltage down and throttle the water supply, thereby leaving the generators spinning with no load like great big flywheels you mentioned.

            If the supply from solar and wind drops off then the valves are opened and the excitation voltage to the rotor is increased and the hydro picks up the load. That is what hydro is brilliant at doing, and why it is used as peaking supply to supplement thermal coal-based load systems whenever possible.

            All this talk about hydrogen, pumped hydro and batteries is nonsense. We have a “great lake” that is less than half full. Right there is a great big storage opportunity, already built and just waiting for someone clever enough to recognise it for what it is, and likewise for any other partially full hydro lake.

            Pumping water uphill when it could have been left there in the first place, and for the same end result, is what you get when ignorant politicians fall for the sales spiel of the makers of big pumps and motors, and from the civil construction companies. Making sure a portion of the budget gets kicked back to the pollies as unreported donations will ice that cake.

          • Russell

            August 29, 2019 at 8:50 am

            Some sanity returns, instead of salinity and senility.

            Peter and Simon, you both seem to have the solution to all our energy production and storage requirements in Tasmania. I’m all for a domestic flywheel as well. When/where do I get one? In the meantime my batteries cost only a fraction of what Hydro bills over the same period of time do, so I am still a million times better off OFF-GRID.

            Robin is always harping on about ‘BASE LOAD’, so the salt towers provide the solution for his industrial applications. All the answers are there and immediately achievable. Only politicians stand in the way.

            I would also rather see paddocks of mirrors or solar panels with the vegetation allowed to grow back to restore the soil, than look at a massive saline dustbowl with stupid farmers feeding their sheep grain or hay which cost them an absolute fortune.

            Problems are only as complex and difficult as you make them.

          • Peter Bright

            August 29, 2019 at 2:51 pm

            Russell, a preliminary search for “domestic flywheel energy systems” produced very little, and that’s a real puzzle. I found nothing new on the subject.

            https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=20555

            I feel such systems offer a fine opportunity for Australian engineers to show what they can do.

            Beacon went under and Velkess is on hold through lack of forthcoming funding.

            https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1340066560/velkess-energy-storage

            Having favoured grass-growing under rural photovoltaic arrays all along, I’m pleased to agree with your progressive reasoning.

            This could be done simply by raising the sturdy arrays of a solar farm to a safe height above grazing animals. Spacing between rows of arrays would allow sunshine to keep the grass green and growing, and the arrays could have guttering that directs the rainwater for grass and animals.

            I hope you’ll inform us of your search results.

  26. Rob Halton

    August 22, 2019 at 8:38 am

    Mr Stott, My reply to your August 18th comment re woodheaters. Having chinamans caps on top of flues does not necessarily keep out rain nor decrease creosote build up, there are various theories surrounding this issue depending on who you talk to!
    There is also the idea that it disperses the smoke emissions more evenly on entry to the atmosphere for which is probably true!

    The reason I removed mine years ago was to ensure the TOP of the flue remained clear of creosote for which improved air flow up through the flue considerably! Cleaning the flue is only a precautionary measure and was only necessary once this season with minor creosote buildup near the top of the flue a few months ago.

    During this current period of exceptionally wet cold SW weather I am using my driest of dry wood stored under cover 3 years at higher combustion temperatures and improvement on emissions is instant.

    To be frank, managing emissions remains a part of any woodheater operation, just remember I am operating a woodheater and not for a furnace that burns too hot for comfort. Overnight operation is essential for our comfort as there is nothing better to wake up next morning and appreciate a warm house.

    The rush into gas heating during the last decade has proven costly for some owners now tossing them out since gas prices have risen to sharply to soon.
    Other than woodheating with the demise of gas householders are going for the heat pump option, good on them as far as I am concerned but I will be sticking to woodheating for the term of my natural life.

    Within my locality of Pitt St- Newdegate St- Andrew St on the mountain side of Elizabeth St there has been a slow but steady increase in woodheater installation, no one tosses them out despite the extra work and maintenance and responsible oprtaional matters.

    If I has my time over again as we live in a small house I would have an Everhot or Aga stove for heating ect over the winter months as it would be unlikely I would need any additional heating requirement.

    In conclusion our family has widely consulted with our elderly dog who enjoys the warm hearth, she has given household wood heating paws up .

    Also I am hoping to live for another 21 years to celebrate 50 years of Saxon Blackwood woodheater ownership although it is more likely at the end of the day my trusty woodheater would outlast me by a long shot, suck that one up old son!

    • Clive Stott

      August 23, 2019 at 1:11 am

      Robin Halton: So you acknowledge you operate your wood heater without the chinamans hat to try and hide your smoke emissions. How responsible is that?! Have you ever checked re operating a modified wood heater installation?

      If you have a rain gauge you will see how much water that vessel collects and the diameter is less than your open flue pipe. Where does that water end up? In your case in your firebox!
      No matter how you are burning your heater you are spewing nasty emissions into the atmosphere.

      Good thing you cleaned some of the unburnt emissions going up your flue (creosote) otherwise you could have had a chimney fire.

      The wood heating association (WHA) must hate you. They are the one setting Australian wood heater standards to clean up their industry and you do them no favours at all with what you are going on about.

      Yours is an uncertified wood heater so your emissions would be around 12 g/kg of dry wood burnt. An open fireplace is about 17g/kg. A new Saxon Blackwood is rated at 0.5g/kg.
      Efficiency would be very low for your ancient model so you would be feeding your wood through it at high rate to get sufficient heat, especially when it is pouring with rain going down the flue to cool the fire box.

      Come on dude, if you can afford to throw your money up the chimney to get a little heat and potentially harm others surely you can dump your dirty, stinky old ‘wood eater’ for something cleaner and more efficient. Try electric @ 0g/kg
      .
      You are invited to the Global Climate Strike in Hobart. As you say it depends on who you talk to so this would be a perfect opportunity for you. https://www.facebook.com/events/442658026524657/

    • Russell

      August 25, 2019 at 9:58 am

      Do something useful for just once in your life, Robin.

      https://www.schoolstrike4climate.com/sept20

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      A gentle reminder …

      https://tasmaniantimes.com/the-legal-bits/

      So here’s a few rules of thumb to consider before you submit a comment …

      Tone matters: A constructive, engaging and respectful tone helps facilitate better understanding on the points of disagreement and agreement between contributors. It also ensures that readers of the articles continue on to read comments.

      Civility promotes debate: We ask that people ‘play the ball not the person’. Remember, a thread that resembles a sparring session will end up having a tiny readership. If you want your comments to be read by as many others as possible, sticking to the issues helps keep the discussion interesting.

      — Moderator

    • Rob Halton

      August 9, 2019 at 7:48 pm

      Russell you are a poor energy salesman, misrepresenting for what is the great Australian solar fantasy from both a residential and industrial perspective!

      Reliable reports show that the Aust Energy market is reeling from the fallout of massive influx of solar projects increasing financial risks to investors threatening a massive slowdown to the industry’s rampant growth.

      Construction of mega solar plants is far behind schedule due to transmission constraints, grid constraints and collapse of major construction company RCR Tomlinson.

      Changing markets raised fears as Aust. moves to allow emissions market economy by constrained costs in an ultra competitive market.!

      Now, more to come, complaints coming from Qld indicated that 25% of solar installations are faulty.

      Today I inquired about Tas Energy requirements at Andrews Wilkies office and I was informed that there are regular complaints coming foward to his office about the so called power savings being peddled by Solar companies to vulnerable clients!

      It also now makes sense that the Victorian government has limited the monthly rebate for solar clients given the false information on electricity costs savings with solar.

      I am sticking with my trusty woodheater which gives me volumes of warmth, street gas HW and Range top and a pretty conservative approach to my electrictiy usage without gimmicks and sly talk about savings..

      I am waiting for the day when reliable and affordable solar powered overnight heating becomes a reality in a Tasmanian winter ha ha ha!

      • Russell

        August 10, 2019 at 10:48 am

        Quote the “reliable reports” to back your curious coal-lobby-supplied and be done with it!

        Poor solar installations aren’t the fault of the equipment, Robin. Never blame your tools for your own poor workmanship, a statement which seems very akin to the modern ‘forest industry way of running (ruining) things.

        Again I ask What is the sum total of your electricity bill for the past four years? Then we shall compare it to Alan’s total of $1,200 over the same period – or mine of $0.

        Also, you completely side-stepped all the solar farm projects in Victoria, just one of which will be powering a steel works and Melbourne’s tramways. Also you ignored the link to a quality lithium powered off-grid system for less than $7,000 as opposed to your spurious $10-15 thousand dollar claim. You’ll find many more much larger projects in other states, and even whole new suburbs in WA being COMPLETELY energy self-sufficient and selling the excess into the grid.

        Your are so far out of touch with the reality of what is HAPPENING NOW that it is laughable.

        Solar powered overnight hot-water storage already exists Robin, and the modern method for overnight warmth storage of your house is called INSULATION! I can go away from my “hollow log” for three days and it will still be toasty warm when I return, even “in a Tasmanian winter HA HA HA!”

        Go play, child.

        • Rob Halton

          August 10, 2019 at 10:40 pm

          I suppose that solar has has its place, remote areas in WA as I suspect that you have already mentioned, but it unlikely to replace wind farm expansion on top of the existing Snowy scheme as a source for Renewable energy on a broad scale suitable for connection to the public electricity grid in Vic.

          The AEMO remains very cautious about new connections from proposed solar farms given the constraints including economic and technical issues associated with more solar companies “popping up out of the blue”, opportunists I say expecting both their share of the Renewable business and immediate attention from government as a part of the overall market share in the “perceived” changing face of public electricity mix.

          Closeness to existing service connecters,, power compatibility and of cause being in the close vicinity of a customer base that is prepared for predominantly Renewables that alone would only produce intermittent power that is not without a more reliable connection into a grid that supplies electricity from either coal and gas to guarantee a far better chance of ongoing reliability certainty!

          I am well aware of Victoria’s recently completed wind farm near Shepperton known as the Vic Govt financed Solar Trams initiative 128 Mw with 300,000 panels spread over 500ha of farm land meant to power Melbourne’s tram Fleet. The wind farm expects a 30 year life

          No doubt it is a “feeling good feeling” for the Andrews govt environment Minister Lily D’Ambrosio, promotion of a wonderful Green project that has already been well publicised in the Herald Sun newspaper.

          The locals around Shepperton are not too happy about more solar farms being planned those careless about land usage for what is production farm land proposed to be alienated by useless Renewables.

          The Numurkah solar farm must be treated as an experimental exercise only which in fact will have very little Impact on real live Renewable electricity generation from the Snowy, plus coal and gas generation.

          The sun does not always shine son to run the Melbourne trams,on time all of the time, its partly an illusion and treating the public like fools, does not play well in politics, come on whats next playing the Laverton steel works on intermittent sunshine, eh !

          Federal energy minister Angus Taylor is no push over and will be ensuring the electricity mix for the nation actually improves its capacity for which I would expect to include freeing more gas for local energy consumption.

          Renewables remain as supplementary to reliable BASE LOAD electricity. supply!

          • Russell

            August 11, 2019 at 9:58 am

            How someone can be so consistently wrong, or ignorant, or just plain lie outright, as you do and are Robin, is beyond comprehension.

            “I suppose that solar has has its place, remote areas in WA as I suspect that you have already mentioned”

            25% of Perth’s homes have gone solar: https://rac.com.au/home-life/info/state_solar-uptake-in-metropolitan-perth

            Indeed, all of WA has been adding rooftop solar at a record rate, which late year saw the state overtake South Australia with a total installed amount of 771MW: https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wa-suburb-trial-community-battery-bank-rooftop-solar-deposits/

            AEMO predicts that around 40 per cent of Australia’s supply could come from “distributed generation”, which effectively means rooftop solar and storage.

            “ONE Aussie city is streets ahead of the rest of the country on this vital measure. And it means its residents may never have to pay a power bill again.” PERTH: https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/perth-could-soon-be-the-first-city-to-be-completely-solar-powered/news-story/8fd36f41526e7619bd3db3b7f20fa0c4

            “The locals around Shepperton are not too happy about more solar farms being planned those careless about land usage for what is production farm land proposed to be alienated by useless Renewables.”

            Bullshit Robin, you can’t even get the spelling right, let alone the facts. Shepparton is a long-term drought-stricken region with very little usable agricultural land. I suggest you go for a drive around the area in which I grew up.

            “The Numurkah solar farm must be treated as an experimental exercise only”

            A 15 year supply contract with a Steelworks and the Melbourne Tramways can HARDLY be seen as an experiment. That’s BASE LOAD energy Robin.

            “The sun does not always shine son to run the Melbourne trams”

            You’ve lived in Victoria, Robin? No. How many sporting events over the last few years in Victoria have you ever seen it raining? None?

            Again Robin, you DON’T NEED BRIGHT SUNSHINE TO POWER SOLAR! You only need SUNLIGHT which begins very early every single day of the year.

            Back into your dark, cold, clammy, expensive-to-power cave, Robin.

    • Russell

      August 11, 2019 at 10:08 pm

      Did you learn or realise anything between 7.45pm and 8.41pm on Your ABC tonight, Robin?

      What a stupid question.

      Of course you didn’t. You have consistently demonstrated that you are incapable of it.

      • Rob Halton

        August 12, 2019 at 8:44 am

        Russell you are raving out of control, cant get your own way, cold shower might help, that’s putting it mildly as it seems to be your way or no way!

        WA facts according to RAC data show energy use Wind power @ 62%, Solar 26%, Biogas 5% and Hydro 8% !.

        From my observations after visiting SW WA, strong winds constantly coming off the Indian ocean and the Southern ocean would contribute to the higher rate of dependence from wind power.than other sources also given that the state has little in the way of water suitable for Hydro, due to lack of reliable river catchments. Without piped water across the vast exposed country, modern day human existence at current rate that would not be possible!
        I was shocked by the “Heat strike” during the day. occurs as temperatures soar by mid pm, time to be at ones daily destination and in the water for a dip, Plenty of heat in the sun, must good for the uptake of solar in WA as well as the wind that dominates the energy generation scene!

        According to locals around Shepparton ( correct spelling) the extension of solar farms in the area means the uptake of land suitable for irrigation, we should leave it to the locals from the shire to determine what is best for their interests. Bang on all you like, leave it to the locals to discuss it with Vic govt

        Yes I did watch last nights ABC program, dont constantly piss me off with your ignorant comments, it seems that you desperately require anger management treatment which may help you come back to earth ever so gently if that is possible at all! I am still trying to absorb the actual practical applications of these life changers living through the digital revolution who are termed as Disruptors.
        It was obvious there was no mention of the globes impending overpopulation crisis!

        Back to the solar business re Mr Gupta’s “Green” steel making ambitions, I have been following the “change agent’s” plans with his SA 280MW Cultana solar farm proposal, plenty of publicity sounds if the project is ready to go ahead ! It seems Mr Gupta has selected a Chinese company Shanghai Electrics
        at least for the construction phase, that makes it very interesting as Australia is starting to wake up to China as a partner in business dealings! Could be some sticky politics emerging !

        The question of Renewable subsidies obviously to be paid by government raises questions of who gets the benefits of the cash payments!
        Sure it appears on one hand Mr Gupta has saved Whyalla and the Laverton Steel works but as well the government needs to be mindful of the proponents power play on empowering those in government for financial gain via the taxpayer!

        At the end of the day while solar including wind and batteries have their benefits it remains that on an industrial scale RELIABLE BASE LOAD electricity is still derived from the use of either fossil fuels and hydro. The events of a few years ago in SA when the sun did not shine and the wind did not blow, storm damage to energy infrastructure and the complications of switching gear coping with tripping circuitry and little remaining BASE LOAD electricity to rely on within SA lessons still need to be followed carefully despite the “perceived” advancements in alternative technology!

        I am sure Mr Gupta will still has the backup of the SE states electricity grid in order to maintain a continuous smelting coming from conventional sources such as fossils fuels and hydro. Green power for smelting steel, not entirely even for those waving the wand seeking ongoing public approval under the3 banner of Green credentials!

        The Federal government’s intentions appear to be maintaining electricity from existing coal fired generators, extending their working life where possible, increase gas fired generation as well as a steady uptake of RENEWABLES, as the technology continues to improve.

        The Morrison government is reasonably well equipped with its energy policy to at least provide for reliable electricity supply but I am not so sure about the truth behind power prices actually dropping at this point in time!

        • Russell

          August 13, 2019 at 10:27 am

          “The events of a few years ago in SA when the sun did not shine and the wind did not blow, storm damage to energy infrastructure and the complications of switching gear coping with tripping circuitry.”

          How on earth do you explain this conflicting sentence, Robin? “The wind did not blow” yet there was “storm damage to energy infrastructure”!

          As was confirmed very recently in the courts, where the Government and the Australian Energy Regulator tried to blame the whole incident on Renewables, it was found that it was all CAUSED BY THE FREAK WIND, storm and AGEING high tension towers collapsing.

          No transmission lines = no power getting through.

          I asked “Did you learn or realise anything between 7.45pm and 8.41pm on Your ABC tonight (Sunday 11.8.2019 Robin?”

          Once again you completely side-stepped and refused to acknowledge that human-induced Climate Change is real, and that it is happening now as it has never happened before on this planet, and that your precious pre-historic fossil fuel energy operators and resource extractors are the largest contributors.

          Do you think that Sir David Attenborough has made a lifelong contributing career based on lies and misinformation? I think not.

          But you have.

  27. Russell

    August 8, 2019 at 11:24 am

    Here Robin, you can do something positive and worthwhile for once in your life, and it won’t cost you a miserable cent.

    https://www.change.org/p/support-the-schoolstrike-for-climate-action

  28. Russell

    August 4, 2019 at 10:03 am

    “Solar power is only a minuscule player which may suit a few “feel good” residential customers who may be willing to risk 10 to 15 grand to establish.”

    This would have cost you almost NOTHING to establish when Labor heavily subsidised it not that long ago, but lazy myopic people like yourself want to be fully subsidised.

    As a result, only losers like YOU are whingeing about power costs .. while those on solar systems aren’t.

    “Large scale solar for Tasmania would not work as there simply insufficient hours of reliable sunshine.”

    Tell that to the thousands of responsible people who have solar in Tasmania and who fully DISAGREE with you. You don’t need brilliant “sunshine” for solar panels to work, only SUNLIGHT.

    Once again, you show your complete ignorance of modern technology and how it all works. Most people’s off-grid systems are fully charged by around 11am each day even if it’s totally cloud covered. I spent all yesterday welding – and it cost me ZERO.

    BASE LOAD scaremongering is a crock of shit.

    Anything learned about thorium reactors yet, gloomster?

    • Peter Bright

      August 6, 2019 at 7:51 am

      Russell, I understand and sympathise with your frustration and increasing annoyance in trying to educate troglodites about the benefits of Renewables.

      I have discerned that Liberals in particular are immune to such efforts with their main interest being reckless exploitation rather than improving their education and refining their intellectual capacity to understand technology.

      I perceive Mr Halton as being a mindless propaganda stooge of the Liberals. Suspicion has been expressed by some readers on TT that he may be rewarded for this role.

      From ..

      https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/08/05/renewable-energy-investment/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020190806

      .. there’s this:

      Don’t tell the coal-huggers, but Australia’s investment in renewable energy is keeping our economic growth ticking over.

      Industry research company Macromonitor has found the $9 billion increase in renewable energy construction over the three years to 2019-2020 has been greater than the growth in road, rail or other infrastructure.

      There are more total dollars in transport construction, but what provides GDP growth is the increase in investment.

      When the count for the past financial year comes in in September, it will show the weakest GDP growth since 1992.

      It turns out renewable energy construction has played, and is playing, a major role in stopping the economy going backwards.

      As a media release from Macromonitor economist Natalie Keogh put it: “The extraordinary boom in the renewables sector is currently the largest contributor to overall growth in construction in Australia.

      “Solar projects, in particular, combined with wind and storage projects, are driving solid growth in overall utilities sector construction, despite falling levels of work on the NBN and weak activity in water, gas and the non-renewable segments of electricity.”

      While renewable energy construction increased by more than $9 billion over the three years, the report estimates road construction increased by $3 billion, rail construction by $6 billion and commercial building by $8 billion.

      • Rob Halton

        August 6, 2019 at 12:16 pm

        Peter for a start I do not support each and everything the Liberal Party is intending to do at present! I always try to look at all aspects of governance from a balanced perspective hence the glaring obvious that energy supply needs to improve way beyond the the way it has been handled by Turnbull, Abbott and the previous greened Labor stooges Rudd and Gillard!

        The reason Renewables have lifted jobs and growth is that significant investment has been shifted within the energy front to basically satisfy frantic climate politics that the end of the world is fast approaching for the land of Oz and we must act rapidly in many cases with blinded actions.!

        Had Labor been elected it would have been both a gutless an expensive disaster to face from any economic perspective!
        The Morrison government has already advanced its energy supply debate with action, Energy Australia’s Yallourn 1480mW PS which supplies 22% of Vics BASE LOAD electricity and 8% of the national market is the latest to have its working life now to be extended beyond 2032 . I mentioned other coal fired PS in my 3rd July address to Russell!

        Caution remains within the SE states after the closure of the Heazlewood PS in 2017, reports indicate that the price upheaval hit the national electricity market followed on from the closure of the aging Heazlewood PS, pricing uncertainty continues today!

        There needs to be an orderly transition to Renewables ,the Andrews govt continues to fight with the Federal government as their objectives differ,
        In my opinion price rises will continue. as BASE LOAD supply is currently being compromised by any overly ambitious approach to replace conventional PS’s with intermittent Renewables on a grand scale.

        Any foward thinking Australian citizen should know by now that with the rise of China our metallurgical processing and manufacturing industrial might must be increased significantly to a “multi purpose” retooling exercise for all essential industries to enable us to become independent of cheaper imports from Asia to ensure a reliable and sustainable supply of manufactured articles during this time of global/ political/ overpopulation upheaval!

        Fair enough too, a nuclear inquiry is an important first step towards the mature and overdue conversation Austrlaia needs to have about nuclear power!

        From the Tasmanian perspective the Cattle Hill Wind farm 300mW is close to completion and should be operational during 2019-20. St Patricks Plains WF capable of producing another 300mW is currently being planned is currently subject to public consultation by Tas Networks!.

        Probably where I vary my Renewables commitment from the State Liberals and I may be wrong I cannot for see a massive Robbins island wind farm with 250 “odd” towers capable of producing 1000mW being permitted to go ahead given the environmental impact on migratory birds with tha part of the Circular Head region. The environmental impact on wildlife is an important consideration especially in this case of the scale of the project!

        The ambition to supply the mainland via another Bass link type underwater cable “Marinius LInk” bears more uncertainty as to why Tasmania should not increase its own industrial base as was the case for the Hydro developments in the state in the first place since early last century!

        An all round balanced approach to electricity supply in necessary , It seems to me that the Morrison government are doing their best to ensure we dont have to compromise BASE LOAD supply first and foremost! I hope that you understand what i stand for too!

        • Russell

          August 7, 2019 at 10:27 am

          “I mentioned other coal fired PS in my 3rd July address to Russell!”

          ALL having always been, and STILL BEING, heavily subsidised by our tax payer dollars. All the dinosaur-aged centuries-old steam technology coal power stations have reached the end of their economic and structural life. The owners know it and they are the ones shutting them down because they are an enormous financial liability DESPITE all the subsidies they get. The owners are investing in Renewables.

          “Caution remains within the SE states after the closure of the Heazlewood PS in 2017”

          The world didn’t end after all, did it Robin? The closure of Hazelwood had absolutely no impact on supply or prices.

          “with the rise of China our metallurgical processing and manufacturing industrial might must be increased significantly to a “multi purpose” retooling exercise for all essential industries to enable us to become independent of cheaper imports”

          The horse has bolted, Robin. China buys ALL our mining outputs at an extremely under-priced rate, and they’re investing heavily in Renewables. Progressive Australian industry can’t compete while we are being sold out by the troglodyte industries. The Chinese aren’t dumb. They’re investing where it needs to be, and where we aren’t.

          You’re on a road to nowhere, Robin.

  29. Russell

    August 3, 2019 at 11:13 am

    ” .. not enough sunshine in Tassie to justify any broad scale solar eh!”

    Only seemingly to those who have no personal experience with, or of having, a solar system on their roof. Unlike you Robin, they don’t whinge about power prices because their energy bills are nearly, if not zero.

    Your stubborn ignorance and lack of life experience and the ability to learn anything is breathtaking.

    • Rob Halton

      August 3, 2019 at 6:02 pm

      Russell, as per usual you dont seem to listen the State govt has clearly made a decision to pursue Wind power in a big way this actually adds to the states reach towards its “green” credentials on top of preexisting reliable BASE LOAD hydro electricity.
      The Zinc Works here in Hobart .has been acquired and restructured by Trafigura from existing owners Nyrstar,an ongoing source of reliable BASE LOAD electricity provided by the State has helped prompt the Zinc Smelter to stay in Hobart at Risdon.

      Solar power is only a minuscule player which may suit a few “feel good” residential customers who may be willing to risk 10 to 15 grand to establish a worthwhile roof top systems! In fact most systems are unaffordable to the average home owner who has better objectives for their money, that my experience anyway!
      Large scale solar for Tasmania would not work as there simply insufficient hours of reliable sunshine, every clown already knows that!

      Now the next phase of maintaining reliable BASE LOAD electricity for the SE states per the duly elected Morrison government is, that the AGL owned 50 year old Liddell PS in the NSW Hunter valley was to shut in 2022 but to ensure reliability of power supplies during 2022-2023 summer months closure has been put back to April 2023.

      As well AGL will continue to operate the Torrens A PS in SA beyond its expected closure date as it was originally expected to close in 2016 but instead will progressively close during 2021 and 2022.

      This gives both government and the energy industry time to focus on the future of electricity whether it be BASE LOAD supply and a mix of RELIABLE and cost effective RENEWABLES to supplement the essential BASE LOAD supply,

      • Alan

        August 6, 2019 at 9:38 am

        “Solar power is only a minuscule player which may suit a few ‘feel good’ residential customers who may be willing to risk 10 to 15 grand to establish a worthwhile roof top system! In fact most systems are unaffordable to the average home owner who has better objectives for their money, that’s my experience anyway!”

        Well I’m feeling pretty good then Rob …

        $6k to fit a quality 5Kw system that costs us $120 per month to finance on a low interest green loan which will be paid out in less than 5 years. In the meantime it’s generating an income that reduces our quarterly power bill to $150 over winter and to Zero over summer. This is in Margate.

        You really should get out more. 🙂

        • Rob Halton

          August 8, 2019 at 2:10 am

          Alan, sounds as if got into solar when the generous rebate in Tasmania was available up till 4 years ago!
          Hey you must have that “feeling good feeling” doing your bit for the planet and your pocket, good luck with your electricity saving investment hopefully you own were supplied with good quality panels and controls so the operational life of your unit should be worth the time and effort, what ever that amounts to!. Bravo son!

          Victoria is currently facing a strange set of circumstances for potential solar customers who are lured by the Vic govt rebate for which has suddenly been reduced on Friday August 1st when the months allocation was capped at 3767 homes in less than 90 minutes as homeowners rushed to receive the $2225 subsidy.

          Obviously the Victorian Andrews government who are supposed to be wrapped in Renewable Energy developments especially widespread commercial Wind power projects throughout the State can now suddenly turn a blind eye towards residential solar prospects especially as summer is approaching with the use of those electricity hungry air con units as well as rising electricity costs looming!

          On one hand Renewables are receiving much attention we all know that commercial applications are essentially triggered by subsidies, then domestic interests should be treated like wise in order to restore confidence in a growing market since the climate scare campaign that has even created an even bigger scare that Victoria will be battling to maintain a reliable electricity network as each summer approachs resulting from the ongoing ripping affect of the shockwaves of the Heazlewood closure in 2016 still looming over the Andrews kingdom!

          Labor State Premier Andrews who is keen to grow Melbourne into a mega city by attracting more settlers to the region where population is outstripping infrastructure is an interesting case study, heavens knows where it will end up despite the various climate scare campaign warnings!

          Despite all of the solar talk there appears to be no solar farms on the horizon so its application only applies to isolated smaller industrial applications and domestic enthusiasm driven by rebates, battery inclusion should be worthy of consideration to drive more widespread domestic usage!

          • Russell

            August 8, 2019 at 11:15 am

            “sounds as if got into solar when the generous rebate in Tasmania was available up till 4 years ago!”

            Poor diddums, and you didn’t. No sympathy for you from anyone here for your own tight-arsed, lazy habits.

            “good luck with your electricity saving investment”

            Come on Robin, be up front like a good boy. What have your energy bills been over the last four years compared to Alan’s? Poor little cry baby.

            “Vic govt rebate for which has suddenly been reduced on Friday August 1st when the months allocation was capped at 3767 homes in less than 90 minutes as homeowners rushed to receive the $2225 subsidy.”

            Gee Robin, I thought it wasn’t popular, and that those progressives were in the minority. Wrong as usual, and proved so by your own conflicting comments. Let’s face it Robin, you have no logical arguments which hold any water. Crawl back into your cave and watch the world move on without you.

            “On one hand Renewables are receiving much attention we all know that commercial applications are essentially triggered by subsidies.”

            Of course, you wouldn’t DARE mention the ENORMOUS subsidies paid to the fossil fuel energy and mining industries which the public has been paying for decades. Of course not. You come from a working background which only ever existed because of massive subsidies, so you couldn’t complain, could you Robin?

            “as each summer approaches resulting from the ongoing ripping affect of the shockwaves of the Heazlewood closure in 2016 still looming over the Andrews kingdom!”

            What are these “ripping” effects, Robin? Hazelwood’s closure has basically gone unnoticed energy-wise. However you didn’t DARE mention that Hazelwood emitted 14% of Victoria’s annual greenhouse gas emissions, and 3% of Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions, did you?

            You also selectively chose to omit the fires which burned at Hazelwood. The coal seam burned for 45 days and spewed pollution over people in the Latrobe Valley. The second Hazelwood Mine Fire Inquiry found that the fire contributed to increased mortality in the Latrobe Valley, that is, it killed people.

            “Despite all of the solar talk there appears to be no solar farms on the horizon”

            Boy, you really are out of touch, and myopic. Try Kerang, Mitiamo, Numurkah, Congupna, Tallygaroopna, Lemnos and Tatura East solar farms.

            And guess what Robin, it’s BASE LOAD. Numurka’s solar farm project was underpinned by a 15-year power purchase agreement with SIMEC ZEN Energy to supply electricity to the Laverton Steelworks in Melbourne’s west, and also Melbourne’s tram network.

            Let’s talk about the Renewables investment in Victoria, Robin. The Victorian government’s renewable energy target (VRET) is expected to draw in $7.2 billion to meet its 2025 goal of supplying 40 per cent of the state’s electricity from Renewables by 2025.

            And what about jobs? Some 10,000 jobs will also be spurred by those projects, according to government estimates.

            And none of that takes into account any of the wind projects in the pipeline.

            You’re out of touch with reality, Robin.

          • Alan

            August 9, 2019 at 9:38 am

            No, within the last 12 months.

            The Small Scale Renewable Energy Scheme gives rebates on Solar Panels of approximately $2,500 for a 6kW system. A premium quality system of that size now costs around $6,500 after the rebate. Cheaper systems can be had for around $5k.

            The $12-$15k systems you speak of can now be had with a battery .. an additional $6k cost for our system currently, but this will reduce over the next 4 to 5 years.

            On retirement in a few years we will fit a battery, and then all of our energy bills should be zero.

            Worth looking at, pal.

  30. Russell

    August 3, 2019 at 11:09 am

    “.. a forum that meets regularly attracting expert speakers and its aim is being agnostic on energy technology” and “this could mean support for new coal fired power stations as was the case under the Turnbull government.”

    That says it all doesn’t it? Heads up own arses forever.

    Halton – blind faithful follower and preacher of the psalms from the handbook of Lieberal slogans and idiotology.

    Nothing new, nothing learned, nothing ever achieved.

  31. Rob Halton

    August 2, 2019 at 11:36 am

    The Monash Forum has been rebooted by the Coalition as a forum that meets regularly attracting expert speakers and its aim is being agnostic on energy technology and its objective is securing affordable and reliable energy for Australia.s future!

    The reality seems to be that there was a likely need to be a mix of energy delivery options to deliver cheaper energy prices’ this could mena support for new coal fired power stations as was the case under the Turnbull government but according to Energy Minister Mr Taylor there will be opportunity to discuss all options including nuclear.

    In my opinion this is exactly what is required as currently the nation has been falling into a Green screaming heap of nonsense that has been beyond all belief.during the past decade!

  32. Rob Halton

    August 2, 2019 at 12:49 am

    Folks, the State Govt has decided to allow a company Epuron to progressively construct more windfarms for example Guilford 300Mw, St Patricks Plains 300Mw, both to be operational by 2023. Catltle Hill near Lake Echo should be operational very soon. On top of that I believe that the Robbins Island 200 tower wind farm with the potential of 1000mw will still be considered as a serious contender with the Marinus Link to the mainland to enable Tasmania to become the “battery of the nation” due to its ability to store its hydro power for times when it is most needed!

    Sunshine, your commercial solar power fantasies for Tasmania seem to be almost bare as a Solar powered facility for George Town 6Mw and Wesley Vale 15Mw are the only ones planned as far as I know, not enough sunshine in Tassie to justify any broad scale solar eh!

    Possibly this still leaves Mr Gupta who could be a “wildcard player” to develop a solar farm to power the city of Whyalla, .of cause that is once his iron smelting plants become sufficiently profitable to risk a massive investment in solar power!

    Any clown from around the traps should know by now Australia needs to realise the nation needs to ensure its processing and manufacturing industries remain onshore and not to depend on some where in Asian continent as has been the trend over the past two decades.
    Its time to wake up and make Australia great again. Scott with the aid of Clive at the recent Federal election to lead the way foward for Oz.

    In my opinion broad scale application of Renewables will remain as socially, economic and politically divisive across the nation.

  33. Russell

    July 26, 2019 at 11:04 am

    My power bill and energy CO2 ouput is zero.

    What’s yours?

    Don’t wait for someone else to fix all your own problems.

    • Clive Stott

      July 27, 2019 at 1:01 am

      Rob Halton .. I take it you are still using that smoky old wood heater, one which would come nowhere close to meeting today’s efficiency and emission standards set by the Wood Heating Association as adopted by AS/NZS.

      • Rob Halton

        July 29, 2019 at 2:17 pm

        Clive of cause I am still using my 28 year old freestanding Saxon Blackwood re installed with a new flue kit in our North Hobart residence during 2002!

        There is absolutely no reason to remove it and I would be proud to suggest it will probably see at least half a century’s faithful service, it has now become a question of me out living the useful life of my woodheater. The woodheater should outlast me!

        With proper seasonal flue cleaning and using mainly very dry silver peppermint firewood properly stacked and aerated on the home front sourced from wind felled trees it makes no sense to change my mode of domestic heating.

        LONG LIVE SUSTAINABLE DOMESTIC RESIDENTIAL WOOD HEATING for those prepared to maintain the upkeep in a responsible manner!

        • Peter Bright

          July 30, 2019 at 2:16 pm

          “Peter Bright, absolute nonsense, pure fantasy! Perhaps the recent events in the media surrounding moon landings have influenced your need to come on board with the would-be galactic pioneers post NASA such as Richard Branson, Elon Musk, and the regular ramblings of Prof Brian Cox!”

          Hmmm, “The regular ramblings of Professor Brian Cox!” you say.

          Well, thou fount of all scientific knowledge within a hydrogen atom, what are your own qualifications for evaluating Professor Brian Cox’s lifetime of accumulated scientific knowledge, and what immaculate learning of yours influences you to evaluate my solar energy contribution as “absolute nonsense and pure fantasy”?

          I append hereunder two extracts about Cox from Wikipedia:

          Higher education ..

          Cox studied physics at the University of Manchester. He earned a Bachelor of Science degree with first-class honours and a Master of Philosophy degree in physics. He completed his Doctor of Philosophy degree in high-energy particle physics at the University of Manchester.”

          Awards and honours ..

          Cox has received many awards for his efforts to publicise science. In 2002 he was elected an International Fellow of The Explorers Club and in 2006 he received the British Association’s Lord Kelvin Award for this work. He held a prestigious Royal Society University Research Fellowship (an early-career Research Fellowship scheme) from 2006 to 2013. A frequent lecturer, he was keynote speaker at the Australian Science Festival in 2006, and in 2010 won the Institute of Physics Kelvin Prize for his work in communicating the appeal and excitement of physics to the general public. He was appointed Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) in the Queen’s 2010 Birthday Honours for services to science. On 15 March 2011, he won Best Presenter and Best Science/Natural History programme by the Royal Television Society for Wonders of the Universe. On 25 March 2011, he won twice at the Broadcasting Press Guild Awards for ‘Best Performer’ in a non-acting role, while Wonders of the Solar System was named best documentary series of 2010.
          In July 2012, Cox was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Huddersfield. Later that year he was awarded the Institute of Physics President’s medal by Sir Patrick Stewart, following which he gave a speech on the value of education in science and the need to invest more in future generations of scientists. On 5 October 2012 Cox was awarded an honorary doctorate by the Open University for his “Exceptional contribution to Education and Culture”. In 2012 he also was awarded the Michael Faraday Prize of the Royal Society “for his excellent work in science communication.” He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2016.”

          Alas, my own qualifications ceased with the award of a “Certificate in Science” in Physics from the Christchurch Technical Institute in 1978.

          Now, fount of all knowledge within a hydrogen atom and world renowned Tasmanian Einstein, tell us a bit about your own scientific qualifications and experience so we may evaluate your right to ridicule.

          Take all the space you need.

          • Rob Halton

            July 30, 2019 at 7:04 pm

            Peter, there is no doubt that Prof Cox is an interesting guy and is up among the best in the scientific world, more recently his focus on adapting life for outer space following on from the 50th anniversary of the moon landing however we all need to solve our earthly problems first and foremost!

            Your own sunshine approach to harnessing energy for human needs on a broad industrial scale is pure fantasy, I am not suggesting that CSIRO and equatable scientific agencies should not give it a whorl! Investigation of possible alternative or supplementary sourcing of energy is a worthy cause. Time is not on our side as older coal fired power stations approach their the end of their economic life without ongoing upgrades.

            Australia urgently needs to play catch up as we are too far behind with sustainable and cost effective electricity generation, political power play has cost the nation dearly. Ridiculous impositions such as Carbon tax, overly played out climate change scare campaigns and multiple privatations have all affected the nations ability to make any common sense of where we stand at present.

            The Morrison government needs to move quickly on these issues as well as limiting the over dependence on energy supply by limiting population growth by immigration to a reasonably sustainable level to comfortably cope with all infrastructural and environmental requirements.

            Clearly I am not against the continued use of technically advanced measures for the continued use of coal for energy production, nuclear needs to be another option on the table, others such as gas wind, solar, wood waste and batteries to supplement Base Load generation!

            Every clown should know that by now after the last decade of hypothetical nonsense by the Greens and Labor.

          • Russell

            August 1, 2019 at 1:35 pm

            Robin ..you say “Clearly I am not against the continued use of technically advanced measures for the continued use of coal for energy production.”

            There are none.

            “Nuclear needs to be another option on the table.”

            As I stated earlier, but you can’t seem to get it into your head, THORIUM reactors are the only viable and safe choice .. AND we have vast deposits of thorium.

            PLUS there are more than enough rooftops throughout Australia to provide us with ALL the energy generation and new employment that we require during daylight hours, while Hydro and possibly thorium provide for night time energy needs.

            You never acknowledge these obvious solutions, which can be achieved within 12 months, because you are too afraid to come out of your cave.

        • Clive Stott

          August 4, 2019 at 2:16 am

          Don’t try and indicate you are being responsible, Rob Halton.

          A wood heater that old is just a smoke generator no matter how it is used and what you feed it with. I bet it doesn’t even have a compliance plate attached to state how poor the efficiency is or how bad the emissions are.

          You are blowing your smoke into other people’s faces.

          • Rob Halton

            August 8, 2019 at 1:11 am

            Clive by having Compliance plates attached on modern reputable brands of wood heaters that have evolved over the past 40 years do not necessarily mean that a better outcome for emissions reduction will actually take place in practice!

            Location is one issue that cannot be altered hence in parts of Launceston are miserably cold in winter with low lying inversion layer of air over the city, as I understand it your council some years ago compensated owners to change their mode of home heating followed up with a ban in some cases!

            Wood heater installation and operation by the owner is the most important aspect of responsible ownership! Flue length affects efficiency the longer the better. I dont have a Chinamans cap on mine which immediately improves air flow, I have my own flue cleaning kit for which I use often as twice a year to clean the flue as necessary to remove any soot build up! Having sufficient quantity of good quality dry wood usually a years burning in advance is always at hand. Yeh, there is extra work involved but a bit more physical effort hurts most of us healty beings does it!

            So,dont label me as not being responsible when you have never been been near my premises to judge me as such!

            I can tell you that there are few of those heat pump installations around my area where the outside compressor units are noisy when operational some are placed too close to adjoining properties sleeping quarters and can at times cause disputes over noise issues. Fortunately there are none up against my property boundary.

            On a really cold still night .one can walk down the street and hear some of these over rated reverse cycle home heating machines working overtime to do their job, when the weather is really severe they are virtually useless for the purpose of heating.

            There is always a steady number of home owners around my area who have upgrades and decided to install wood heaters to ensure winter warmth, the gas heater fad seems to be over as some have been removed because of excessive running costs associated with poorer efficiency when compared to wood heaters, heat pumps and electric heaters as such..

            The problem with most modern woodheaters, they can burn too fast generating unnecessary heat when it is not wanted instead of a steady slow burn overnight and having a warm house through the night till early am when it is most needed by most households.

            Clive dont attempt ever to even try to make other peoples life miserable with your nonsense about judging the average householder who uses a woodheater for comfort over the Tasmanian winter months,

          • Russell

            August 8, 2019 at 11:28 am

            “I have my own flue cleaning kit for which I use often as twice a year to clean the flue as necessary to remove any soot build up!”

            Robin, your woodheater can’t be that efficient, nor your wood as good as you claim if you have to clean your flue twice a year.

          • Clive Stott

            August 18, 2019 at 2:25 am

            Robin, you say “As I understand it your council some years ago compensated owners to change their mode of home heating followed up with a ban in some cases!”

            Firstly, I am in West Tamar, not Lonny. Secondly, yes the program to exchange wood burners, such as old wood burners like you have, was most successful, and air quality improved considerably. Can’t you see the connection that your old heater is a smoke generator? There is your proof, my friend.

            “Compliance plates attached on modern reputable brands of wood heaters that have evolved over the past 40 years do not necessarily mean that a better outcome for emissions reduction will actually take place in practice!”

            Exactly! It is known that real-life emissions do not match up with emissions during the controlled wood heater certification process. Real -life emissions are much higher. So on top of this, goodness knows what you are putting up your flue when you don’t have a Chinaman’s cap. When it rains you would have water in your firebox, so you are burning (smoking) cooled, wet wood.
            No wonder you keep your flue brush handy to scrape off all that creosote from incomplete combustion.

            And you try to tell us you are being responsible. Pull the other leg!

  34. Rob Halton

    July 25, 2019 at 12:09 am

    Here are the facts, The global warming scare has fathered many government policies that have penalised taxpayers and consumers, The energy and climate space is dominated by regulatory orientated entrepreneurs seeking government funding or measures to distort markets in their favor.

    On a global scale the cost is in the order of $230 billion per year . It appears that Australia is caught up in systemic Renewable programs that will take at least a decade to eliminate the $5 billion impost paid by Australians through the subsidies and regulatory induced costs that are actually undermining low cost energy supply. Energy Minister Angus Taylor will be required to allow these programs to expire by natural attrition.

    Carbon capture and storage is one of those false claims where stripping the CO2 from coal and gas generation by burying it where its is hoped it will stay.
    MJF recently pointed out another new fad, the latest extracting hydrogen from fossil fuels’. Carbon sequestration is another where experimentation with plants is dependent on the green fantasies of a carbon tax and more generous subsidies, all for what!

    The US claims that CCS coal plants cost between $150-$250 per megawatt hour are not falling compared with $65 per megawatt hour for a new black coal plant.

    Future innovation in the energy industry requires care judgement to ensure it does not become just another flourishing diversionary entrepreneurial racket!

    Anyone for the perfect energy generation solution being totally emission free as well as being affordable for the masses?

    • Peter Bright

      July 25, 2019 at 3:05 am

      “Anyone for the perfect energy generation solution being totally emission free as well as being affordable for the masses?”

      Sunshine! So obvious.

      • Rob Halton

        July 26, 2019 at 11:29 pm

        Peter, hey Sunshine how about some nuclear generation to supplement our projected losses of coal fired and overly expensive gas fired generators to maintain the nation’s base load requirements!

        Robbins Island wind farm and its undersea link to the mainland will need to be pretty quick off the mark before Liddell in NSW shuts down. Lang in Victoria hasn’t long to go either! Can anybody figure that one out!

        It will all come to a head very soon, good luck to Bob for caring about the migratory birds and raptors, I can bet there will be some slam dunk politics forthcoming, Energy Minister Angus Taylor will need to be a miracle worker to avoid massive mental blockages arising from far too regular brown outs forthcoming!

        Of cause there are always the diesel generators to keep those pesky mainland energy sapping aircon systems going this summer. No to healthy fresh air and natural human sweat!

        Anyone for the perfect energy storm now on our doorstep initially because SA blew up their two operating power stations far too early
        without any national consultation!

        Kennett sold off the Victorian generators, Braid nearly did the same in NSW ! Tasmania is expected to throw the baby out with the bath water now being labelled as the Battery of the Nation, that ill considered rumor starting with former PM Malcolm Turnbull.

        How about Snowy 2 another myth pumping water uphill from coffer dams by using politically motivated wind power!,

        More likely is we will all end up being chained to China’s global Belt and Road policy before we ever see the daylight of maintaining reliable and sustainable electricity supply!

        We are too slow off the mark, and that is really tragic for Australians!
        Because of the poor handling of the climate Change Syndrome now affecting our daily lives one can expect that electricity prices will continue to soar through the roof!

        Well Sunshine what is your remedy any advances beyond the daily sunshine on cloud free days eh!

        • Russell

          July 27, 2019 at 11:58 am

          Ever heard of Thorium reactors, Mr Gloom? Of course you have, because I’ve mentioned them many times before, but it takes a millenia for anything to sink into your skull – which happens to be about the same time it takes for coal to form.

          THorium reactors can be shut down at will, unlike uranium reactors. You also can’t make nuclear weapons from the waste, which is probably the real reason the USA and other power-hungry nations don’t want to get rid of them.

          Australia also has some of the largest deposits of Thorium.

          If you want to harp on about “jobs”, there are more sustainable jobs to be created in the renewable energy field and minimg Thorium rather than filthy earth-killing dinosaur deposits of coal or gas.

          I haven’t heard anything untoward with SA’s power supply since they got Tesla in, but I have heard that NSW and VIC suffered outages with their outdated and privatised energy systems.

          As I’ve repeated to you ad nauseam before if all Tassie homes had just a modest solar system on their roofs it would totally replace Liddell or Hazelwood, and it could be installed in just one year. How many stone age power stations would Melbourne’s, Sydney’s or Brisbane’s homes replace if they were forced to go solar?

          Personally, I hope that energy prices soar beyond everyone’s affordability because it seems most morons only think with their pockets. And the sooner the better.

          Unfortunately, we are led by neanderthal lobbyists and greedy self-serving bastards who couldn’t give a tinker’s cuss about anything but themselves.

          • Rob Halton

            July 30, 2019 at 11:12 pm

            Russell, you said, ” Personally I hope that energy prices soar beyond everybody,s affordability” Your comment is beyond belief which clearly reflects your general lack of proper social interaction with others ! Your level of communication is deplorable

          • Russell.

            August 1, 2019 at 1:38 pm

            Robin, you say “Your comment is beyond belief which clearly reflects your general lack of proper social interaction with others! Your level of communication is deplorable.”

            It’s the only way Neanderthals like yourself are ever going to change your climate-destroying ways.

            I give you solutions, but you offer nothing but distraction.

        • Peter Bright

          July 28, 2019 at 10:48 am

          “Peter, hey Sunshine how about some nuclear generation to supplement our projected losses of coal fired and overly expensive gas fired generators to maintain the nation’s base load requirements?”

          Neanderthal Ned asks about some nuclear generation to compensate for the projected losses of the nation’s base load capacity.

          It should be axiomatic to all but the ignorant that we already receive nuclear energy in superabundance! It’s called insolation which may be defined as the solar radiation striking Earth or another planet.

          By the time it reaches Earth the sun’s atomic radiation is benign, and it’s distributed daily, to some degree, across half our planet. The sun’s outpouring of continuous energy is incomprehensibly huge, but only one part in 2 billion of it reaches our planet. Storing the energy that does get here is currently an ongoing challenge for mankind.

          As the sun’s energy supply is prodigious there is no insurmountable problem in meeting most of humanity’s base load requirements because all that’s required is sufficient storage capacity to do the job, and of course the transducers (such as photovoltaic cells) to secure it. A transducer is any device that changes one form of energy into another. Liberal politicians turning our taxes into hot air is not applicable.

          Not enough base load power? Then build larger solar energy farms, and of course the capacity to store what’s needed! Sure, the initial infrastructure costs are high, but the energy, any amount of it, is always free. No invoices, and no delivery charges, ever!

          The sun is listed as 149,597,870 km from us, but that’s so far that I could not relate it to earthly standards .. until recently when I had a think about it. So just how far is 150 million kilometres?

          Let’s look first at something that’s easier to comprehend, namely our moon. How far away is that? It’s listed as 384,400 km. Hmmn .. that’s still too far for me to relate to earthly distances.

          Well, let’s look at something that’s easier to comprehend, namely our Earth itself. Ah yes. I’ve travelled many times in coaches from Perth to Sydney and back again. It took 42 hours each way by express coach travelling night and day while stopping occasionally so the passengers could have a pee, a pie and a poo.

          The equatorial circumference of the Earth is listed as 40,075 kilometres, so there are 384,400 / 40, 075 = 9.592 Earth circumferences in Earth’s distance from the moon.

          With our imagination, let us shrink the Earth to the size of a billiard ball. We would then need to hit the ball for 9.592 rotations along the pool table to reach the moon. Yes, that’s all! The moon may thus be considered as being in Earth’s backyard.

          Internationally standardised pool balls are listed as being 57 mm in diameter and so their circumference is 179 mm. Therefore 9.592 rotations comes to 1.717 metres, a readily seen distance on the pool table. A standard pool table has a playing surface 2.7 metres long which means that our rotating pool ball (as the Earth) would stop 63.6% along the table’s length when it reached the moon.

          But now for the big one, the number of Earth rotations to reach the sun. This ratio is 149,597,870 / 40,075 which is 3,733. Our billiard ball sized Earth would therefore have to rotate 3,733 x 0.179 = 20,850 metres, or 20.85 km, to reach the sun.

          Summing up, if the Earth was the size of a billiard ball the moon would be 1.71 metres away and the sun would be 20.85 km further on.

          • Rob Halton

            July 30, 2019 at 11:15 am

            Peter Bright, absolute nonsense, pure fantasy.! Perhaps the recent events in the media surrounding moon landings have influenced your need to come on board with the would be galactic pioneers post NASA such as Richard Branson, Elon Musk and the regular ramblings of Prof Brian Cox!

            With growing international pressures on national security issues around retaining our metallurgical industries onshore the emphasis will be on further development of the importance of producing suitable base load generation.

            Fortunately against all of the odds international steel maker Sanjeen Gupta saved our steel producing industry at Whyalla from total collapse due to SA;s determination to blow up its two remaining coal fired power stations.prematurely removing from what was a reasonably reliable electricity grid. providing jobs and business in SA. Premier Weatherill was kicked out of government for his unbelievably stupid approach which almost destroyed the SA economy!

            The steel works depends on co generation for energy in the steel making process. In the background of this development there was a promise of goodwill shown by Mr Gupta to develop Australia’s largest solar farm to power the city of Whyalla. A commendable move no doubt to include Green power but as far as I can understand construction which would be need to be heavily subsidised by government as does any Renewable energy development!

            Like any large scale business, economics and industry stability comes first, “good will ” promises could follow eventually once sustainable business is achieved in the region.

            The development of solar farms appears to be low on the list for Renewables wind farms are taking prominence over solar.
            Solar on a small scale for mainly domestic users and small time business requirements has its place, I dont question that as it is an individuals choice who desire that good feeling they are doing something for “saving” the planet as well as savings with electricity bills!

            The Morrison government is often challenged by both wide spread nonsense within the energy sector that has been going on for too long under previous governments at all levels. I am hopeful that hard line Federal Energy Minister Angus Taylor will take to task a serious plan for the nations future energy requirements to include a suitable range of energy sources for which may need to further develop and maintain some coal fire generation over and above expensive gas to provide ongoing reliable electricity generation to produce essential BASE LOAD power.

            Nuclear power should also be on the table as I cannot forsee a complete move away from coal in particular the use of high grade coal which produces less emissions.

  35. MjF

    July 23, 2019 at 12:02 pm

    It just gets better …

    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/07/bob-brown-turns-wind-farm-nimby/

    Bird and landscape killers condemned by Robert. No pleasing some people.

    • Russell

      July 23, 2019 at 2:23 pm

      Coal is killing everything, but you lot can’t seem to get your heads around that.

  36. MjF

    July 22, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    • Rob Halton

      July 23, 2019 at 8:27 am

      It does not make any sense to export an energy producing fuel when the nation to date has failed to sort out its own energy mix, messed up by politics and the overreach of the non cost effective handouts associated with Renewables to produce intermittent electricity at a further environmental cost to raptors, migratory birds as well as social issues associated for humans living near wind farms.

      I strongly suggest that the public closely studies the letter written to the Mercury newspaper ,July 20th by Will Hodgman’s ex chief of staff Brad Stansfield!

      It is obvious to me Tasmanians are being hoodwinked over the State government’s obsession to sell electricity across Bass Strait at any cost as a part of the NEM arrangement and it is not working in the long run by both costing the state financially, draining our lakes and causing our long standing industrial users to be jumpy about remaining in Tasmania when electricity capacity is being bandied around as a false cash cow for the state.

      I have to agree with Bob Brown’s concerns with the future of windpower especially the proposed Robbins Island project associated with the Basslink II and the lack of direction of our states energy future!

      In my opinion rigorous debate needs to being now throughout the nation, I would expect that Federal energy Minister Angus Taylor takes the leadership role as as least the Southern states will find themselves heading for periods of energy shortages as base load coal fired electricity plants close down over the next decade.

      Govenment subsidised intyermittent Renewables are definitely not the answer to dominate within the nation’s current and future electricity/ energy mix.

  37. Russell

    July 21, 2019 at 6:06 pm

    As I said, please don’t preach until you know what the hell you’re talking about, Robin.

    Endemic Native plants belong here and have been here for thousands of years, so that’s a bloody good indicator that things climate-wise are WRONG. It’s not a matter of me doing anything wrong in the least, especially since I’ve done everything right by lessening my impact on the climate while you haven’t even got solar panels on your roof and have had a whole lifetime in an industry which puts more carbon into the atmosphere than any other in Tasmania with its ignorant and callous “burn, baby burn” slogans.

    Why don’t you ask how the southern Tasmanian fruit growers and farmers in general have gone with the fires caused by your industry earlier this year?

    As I’ve said a squillion times, go read “The Biggest Estate On Earth” to learn how Australia used to be until whities got here and turned it into a dustbowl in less than 200 years. It’s all there in black and white, and written by the very people exploring and surveying the country. The adverse changes to rural life are modern, mono-cultural, and white fella man-made.

    These days Landline and Backroads are cheap entertainment for those who don’t know any better, and who are never likely to leave their own suburb. Landline is more a mouthpiece for the likes of Monsanto, Simplot and the mining companies etc, who want to keep doing what they’ve been doing wrong for the last 200 years.

    It would be great if you could learn something up to date and scientifically factual for a change, but I really doubt it and won’t hold my breath.

  38. Russell

    July 18, 2019 at 10:33 am

    You obviously don’t do much research past what Morrison parrots from the industry which gave him the lump of coal to take into Parliament.

    ALL the current climate warming scientific data is off the scale compared to anything ever seen in our planet’s entire history.

    I am a primary producer and I’ve experienced failed crops in three of the last four years. Those years were the warmest and driest on record EVER in Tasmania. All the other farmers, buyers and distributors I speak with throughout the world, and not just here in Australia, say the same.

    Don’t preach about things about which you have no obvious knowledge or experience.

    All homes and industries should be forced to install water tanks to supply their own water needs from their roof catchments. Then you lot might get some first hand experience in how much water you harvest from one year to the next, and how much you use and waste. One 11,500 litre tank will provide water for just one person to flush their toilet for a year. At the same time, town water suppliers should charge heavily for water at rates which force you to be even more aware about how much you waste.

    To minimise water loss, no farms should ever be allowed to flood-irrigate or irrigate during the day, or in windy conditions. The excuses of mould, mildew or fungal attacks are just bunkum! If that was the case farmers must be crapping themselves every time it rains at night. They’re just too bloody lazy to set their sprinklers at night. All irrigation channels must be fully enclosed in pipes, as Richard Pratt offered to do back in 2002, but little Johnny Howard rejected it.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/pratts-100m-offer-to-water-the-outback-20020915-gdfmvr.html

    Get your facts right, Robin. The solutions are there and everyone knows them. Only the current useless crop of ex-lobbyists reigning in our parliament stand in the way.

    Landline is a show for urbanites who have no idea what is really happening, and don’t care. It’s delivered by the pawns at the behest of our Neanderthal agricultural and mining past.

    Before you start your rant on coal, get your facts right for a change .. and provide conclusive evidence.

    • Rob Halton

      July 19, 2019 at 10:43 am

      Russell, as you claim that your crops failed in the last 3-4 years shows up your lack of adaption towards seasonal growing conditions! Blame your stubborn self not the climate as the NW Coast has always remained as an important Food Bowl region for reliable production and processing of virtually a wide range of of healthy goodies, vegetables, fruit dairy and meat within the State season after season, this year is no exception.

      Central NSW and Qld copes with harsher issues such as the current prolonged drought which eventually will be followed by flooding rains, that is the nature of farming within the margins of the nations land mass. Boom and bust years is no stranger to this region, its been happening now for decades modern sensational reporting by the media these days draws extra attention to the plight of the man on the land.

      I am surprised that you dare to criticise LANDLINE, it remains as an important link between the rural community and the Australian public and rates as one of the best rural educational shows in the nation as does BACKROADS with a lighter touch on the Australian way of life! Keep in touch with our ABC good for mind body and soul of coping with the many changes to rural life.

  39. Russell

    July 13, 2019 at 1:20 pm

    Dyson admits “I do not know much” about the technical facts about climate change, so I wouldn’t put too much faith in what he says even though he also “has suggested that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere could be controlled by planting fast-growing trees. He calculates that it would take a trillion trees to remove all carbon from the atmosphere.”

    How he came to that figure I don’t know, but the reality is that we are cutting down more trees than ever at an incredibly alarming rate and this is exacerbating the problem.

    And when in history did the atmosphere reach such a certain amount of CO2 saturation that it could not take any more, and the excess went into the soil? What were the consequences at the time if it actually happened?

  40. Russell

    July 13, 2019 at 1:05 pm

    Good one, Robin.

    Since when is coal mining, and using it to make power, a “modern and state of the art contrivance”?

    You’re talking about centuries old steam engine technology. It’s so primitive in these days of ANNUAL technological advances that it’s cave man stuff!

    There is no “food bowl” when you don’t have healthy soil or water, OR stable and reliable weather conditions to grow them in. The Menindee fish kills and a 7 year non-El Nino drought are about as stark and as conclusive reality as you can get, Robin. Most major Australian dams are currently running empty. What quality water would be left in them, and where are you going to get it when it’s gone?

    Also currently, China owns vast tracts of Australian farmland, and none of the produce is going to our population.

    Perhaps you should concentrate your efforts on the reality of the planet we live in!

    The challenge for the OLDER generation within the Australian political spectrum is to aim for saving a world we can actually exist in like these kids are doing, and who seem to possess more brains than those more worried about their own pockets.

    • Rob Halton

      July 17, 2019 at 12:56 am

      Russell , climate acts as basically a cyclic event over the centuries as historical records do show. The current situation in Australia seems to be the target of sensational news by the mood of the of the modern media. In many respects this of cause is a good thing to tell the nation what is going on. People need to be aware of how hard life is becoming in the bush for the average family on the land!

      Scare campaigns are also common place, its about getting the balance right in all things we do! Unfortunately over use of water resources, whether it be in the Murray Darling basin where water is being misused for growing non essential water hungry crops ( cotton and walnuts) for export including water supplies to major cities who literally waste precious water by the standards expected by the promotion of modern lifestyles by city dwellers is getting seriously beyond being unsustainable to the point of having to construct expensive desalination plants for reliable water supply!

      Starting with the politics, socially and economically much change is needed to the way we use water for every day usage. If the droughts continue through for much longer hence into this coming summer then the government needs to take assertive action now to the distribution of water licences where flows are insufficient not only to sustain farming as well as reasonable environmental flows.

      I am on the ball Russell, Barnaby Joyce has been a major obstacle in the politics,during the Abbott and Turnbull years! I regularly watch Landline on ABC, its a good learning program not only for those living in the bush but educational for the city dwellers who need to also need get to grips on what is reasonable to be expected by the nation.

      PM Morrison has an important task to undertake as we cannot sustain China;s needs (demands) nor can we continue to promote unnecessary population growth. Both are unsustainable!

      I’ll tackle coal exports and power generation later as there is much to be said!

  41. Leonard Colquhoun

    March 21, 2019 at 6:20 pm

    Schoolkid striker qualifying check list:

    I walk to school [Y/N];
    when my house feels too hot / too cold, I take off some / put on more clothing [Y/N];
    I dry my own washing on the clothesline [Y/N];
    when I get an extra item of clothing or more ‘stuff’, I apply the ‘one in – one (or two, three or five) out’ principle [Y/N], which I personally take by foot or cycle to a charity shop [Y/N];
    I use a push mower to cut our grass [Y/N];
    I organise our garbage grading and disposal [Y/N];
    I am in a voluntary ‘clean-up-our-neighbourhood’ group [Y/N];
    I have arranged to make up lost lessons in after school time [Y/N];

    plus, in about five sentences I can explain the gist of stuff like:

    the 100,00-year-old problem [Y/N];
    the Keeling Curve [Y/N];
    the Maunder Minimum [Y/N];
    the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum [Y/N]; and
    these five acronyms: the ENSO, the LOWERN, the OHC, and two of my favourites [Y/N];

    and, finally and on reflection, I ask myself whether I am in danger of becoming one of Eliza Doolittle’s “Words! Words!Words! I’m-so-sick-of-words! Is-that-all-you-blighters-can-do?” hypocrites [Y/N].

    PS: I have checked the history of Mao’s Red Guards to see if I’d like them as the company I’d be in [Y/N].

    • Jon Sumby

      March 21, 2019 at 11:27 pm

      Gosh Leonard,

      What an erudite, commonsensical, and supportive list!

      I am very interested in your very own answers to the questions you pose.

    • Rob Halton

      July 11, 2019 at 6:03 am

      You bet that many lifestyle ironies would make up the modern living expectations of these budding young environmentalists who are dependent on modern and state of the art contrivances for their comfortable existence.

      So the Shorten government and their Green supporters with the aid of Getup failed to materialise on the public radar! Good old Qld with the financial help of Clive Palmer and the spectacular failure of the dud Labor leader to convince Australians with his boring prattle that he was best for the job! He wasn’t from day one, I hope that Chloe dumps him too!

      Morrison now as an publicly elected PM who ran a presidential style campaign who was ultimately the most reliable candidate within the entire country to remain as PM despite the hiccups resulting from the Turnbull spill. Voter intelligence has now laid aside Abbott who can no longer linger in the Parliament.
      Morrison has in many respects a refreshing start to progress a slow economy and at the same time to figure out some ways of dealing with impending environmental issues currently facing the nation.

      If I were Morrison the first major environmental hurdle is to secure the Food bowl of the nation being the Murray Darling system where cotton growing for export should not occurinstead concentrating on essential food crops and balancing environmental water flows taking into consideration social impacts of the communities involved!

      By comparison Adani is small fry, the Barrier reef at least requires some changes to the water quality of rivers flowing into the sea, planting more trees and reestablishing riparian strips with native vegetation.

      Morrison has to make a stand with primary producers along the eastern side of Australia to grow essential food crops as well as introducing better practices to stop the rorts of water allocation for irrigation licences within the Murray Darling system. The Nationals within the Coalition need to clearly see better practices with river flows would include social licence from affected communities and its not all about what is in fact out has been political control of our most important river system facing droughts.

      Perhaps our budding students should concentrate their efforts on the nations Food Bowl, after all the area offers the best opportunity for the nation to sustain itself “indefinitely” despite forecasted steady population increases!

      The challenge for the younger generation within the Australian political spectrum is to aim for a balance of economic, social and environmental, outcomes, food security is a worthwhile objective for all of us. Some advice to follow leave out Bob Brown!

  42. Rod

    March 1, 2019 at 8:18 pm

    I’m afraid this is yet another in a long series of idiotic detached from reality anti-CO2 AGW religious fervor nonsense.
    The entire AGW lie has been exposed so many times now you’d have to believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus.
    EVERY SINGLE claimed event by Al Gore has FAILED to materialise.
    In fact the exact opposite has happened. The IPCC data on which Gore based his claims were taken out of context as has been shown. Warming PRECEDES CO2. NOT the other way around !!!
    As per usual academia is more interested in saving their own jobs and getting funding by sucking up to the government lie of AGW and CO2. This lie goes all the way back to its origin of Margaret Thatcher in the early 80’s where she tried to break the backs of the unions bringing the UK to its knees.
    In short it’s all politically and power driven. DUH.
    What a surprise from politicians.
    Of course some 4 decades later they can’t very well turn around and admit they’ve been lying for so long, so it goes on and on, despite all the hard cold scientific facts to the contrary.
    Not opinions of pseudo-scientific “consensus”. F-A-C-T-S

    So…”teachers” – when will YOU L-E-A-R-N history, how to tell truth from lie, how to critically analyse data, how to educate your children rather than turn out brainless rote-learning paddock animals for the next generation?
    There’s nothing to be proud of by demanding change in something that doesn’t exist !

    Simple reality – wake up FAST, as the Grand Solar Minimum and GLOBAL COOLING is the real deal.

    Spend some times on real hard scientific data websites like Joanne Nova’s.
    Exposing the ludicrously idiotic renewables solar/wind fiasco.
    SA’s $150 MILLION for a backup battery that provides power for FOUR minutes.
    Now go run the numbers for a week.
    ALL at taxpayer expense. DUH again.

    Protest all you want. Demand change all you want.
    If you don’t understand history, reality, nature, cycles, politics, economics and facts, your futures really do look bleak, but then that’s your own making.

    • PLB

      March 2, 2019 at 12:50 pm

      So its Margaret Thatcher’s fault, these growing global weather extremes. Wow, thanks for that Rod. Well, the Bush fires reported over in England, this Winter, should help them bloody Poms to wake up to that Thatcher’s devious plot.
      With your obvious wealth of wisdom, Rod, a man with your rounded knowledge of both History and Climatology, (and awareness of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus) should be compassionately working in Media, to enlighten your poor misguided fellow brothers and sister’s. Murdock’s Dark Sky’s after Six has an intellectually starved audience desperate for enlightenment. You should not hold yourself back, Rod, and the readers here at TT, like myself, can only be thrilled, having endured an extreme record breaking hot dry burning summer here in Tas, that its just a bloody Thatcher plot. I’ll be. And here in Oz, they have been saying its a religious zeal plot by the Greenie’s, but over in the US, President Trump has stated its a Chinese plot to damage the US economy.
      Well, speaking for myself, Rod, I am gratitude filled, and will sleep happy tonight, knowing that its not those pestie Greenie’s next door, nor the hundreds of millions of Chinese, but just poor old long past it Maggie’s devious lingering plot. And that blighter Gore, you say.
      Well that makes some sense, as it was an incurring thought in my mind, as to how the world’s Climatology sciences could all be behind the plot put forward by those pestie Greenie’s, or, the Chinese, just made no sense at all.
      Well, again Rod, gratitude filled for your enlightenment, and hoping to hear more of your wisdom, as it made for quiet an evening, and Mate, give my best to the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

      • PLB

        March 2, 2019 at 2:22 pm

        Look Rod, whilst having given considerable thought to your words of wisdom, to be truthful, I am just still a wee bit left confused. If, it is not a plot by those pestie Greens or the Chinese hoards, backed by the world’s Climatology sciences, but instead a plot by devious old past Maggie and Gorey, which would mean they, the world’s Climatology sciences would collectively have to had stood with hand on heart giving their all to Maggie and Gorey, and that’s the bit which leaves me wondering. Trust you can see my point, Rod, without looking down on my lack of understanding.
        And this “Grand Solar Minimum and GLOBAL COOLING” will that mean the wildfires being experienced over in jolly old England this Winter, and for the second year running over in NZ, which has not had wildfires before, will this Grand Solar and Global Cooling, mean the wildfires be smaller, or keep growing bigger ?, as my Sister where those NZ fires burnt was rather frightened.
        Hope you can spare the time Rod, to further enlighten myself, and others who are concerned with our Grandchildren’s future.
        And as said, Rod, once again, gratitude filled, and good to see your overwhelming wisdom enter this debate.
        And, PS. a small favour, could you ask Santa if the Ice Blocks up the Pole are really melting, as I have got myself into a debate on that one with old ‘MIF’ fellow.

        • Wining Pom

          March 2, 2019 at 7:37 pm

          I think PLB, that Rod’s comment is a very good sketch of comedy. I mean, nobody could really believe what he wrote, so it must be comedy. I must admit that I had a good laugh.

      • Keith Antonysen

        March 3, 2019 at 1:39 pm

        Rob

        The science of climate change began in the 1820s through Fourier.
        Foote and Tyndall experimented with CO2 and radiated infrared in the 1850s.
        A newspaper article in 1912 in a New Zealand paper was about the perceived impact of coal would have on the atmosphere.
        In the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s scientistists working for fossil fuel corporations wrote reports about the harmful effects of coal on climate and oceans. Were these scientists presenting a religion?

        So, the science was set in place before Hearlands and other denier groups began to undermine established science in the late 1980s. Science is not a religion, it needs to be replicatible.

        For a start, please provide an answer to why 1998 a datum point for deniers is no longer used?
        I have asked this question elsewhere a number of times and never received an answer.

        Science is not determined by opinion or ideology … but, data and observation backing a hypothesis.

        http://www.climatefiles.com/climate-change-evidence/presidents-report-atmospher-carbon-dioxide/

        If you click on Collection Index you will find many studies which preceded denier scams.

        If you wish, I can provide references to where science studies have been altered to suit denier opinions, they relate to Hansen, Alley, and Ljungqvist.
        Also, I can provide a reference to Jerry Taylor, in the past he worked for Heartlands. He was told by Physicist Joe Romm that he had been wrong with the information he had been fed about Dr Hansen.
        Jerry Taylor began to check the talking points he had been given by Heartlands, and found they were completely wrong, he resigned.

        Dr Muller was given the task of assessing information presented by climate scientists, he happened to be a skeptic and gained funding from one of the Koch brothers. On assessing the data available, he changed his mind. He now implicitly believes in climate science.

        Please provide references to support your view, the absence of references can be taken to mean you have nothing of substance.

        On climate change young people have far more nous than your Prime Minister.

  43. Kim Peart

    December 16, 2018 at 11:25 am

    In this thread of comments I read …

    “Note to self: DO NOT read anything Kim writes. He doesn’t actually DO anything but ponder this or ponder that. Like most people, he just sits on his lazy backside and waits and begs for everyone else to do the work for him. I doubt anyone reads your long-winded posts Kim, because they’re all the same whining and moaning rants speculating this and pondering that while accepting that Climate Change is a reality, but do you do ANYTHING to help everyone else in stopping it? NO!”

    My question is, what will the plan of effective action be to get CO2 down to a planet-safe level ASAP, and how soon can this happen?

    Planting trees is one approach, but could enough trees be planted, especially when fires are now so fierce that they are burning into the rain-forest as seen in Queensland recently, and when heat wipes out 700 km of mangroves along the northern coast. The Queensland fires are a very bad sign of what may happen to the Amazon rain-forest where a lot of the Earth’s oxygen comes from.

    What would be the best use of solar panels in Tasmania when this island has hydro power, and could soon begin engaging in wave power? I have suggested that the best use of solar panels in Tasmania would be to support desalination of sea water and then pumping this water to any location in Tasmania to drought and energy proof this island.

    The carbon crisis is so huge, and will be so expensive to fix, that I see the best path to a safe Earth as being with solar power stations in space to provide the level of energy needed to extract excess CO2 from the air, and the construction of an adjustable sunshade in space to help cool the Earth as excess carbon is being extracted and dealt with.

    The space approach would also open industry in space which would then serve to finance the work to save the Earth.

    The Earth-only approach, as with many solar thermal power stations in the deserts, would be total expense .. and no new opportunities. On Earth alone, the expectation of sulphur being pumped into the air to cool the planet may also reduce the amount of solar energy reaching solar panels.

    I fear the Earth-only approach simply plays into the hands of the fossil fuel moguls to keep flogging fossil fuel, and later sulphur, because there is no Earth-only plan to keep fires out of the rain-forests, or heat from killing the mangroves, or ocean heatwaves from bleaching the Great Barrier Reef, or warmer ocean water flowing around Tasmania and changing our marine environment.

    Since the 1960s, the Earth-only approach has delivered no working alternative to fossil fuel, and has therefore allowed fossil fuel to continue doing its work of meeting our dreams .. and killing life.

    When there is a plan mobilised that will win back a safe Earth, then all other actions will also be needed, including planting trees, and cleaning plastic from the oceans.

    Federal Minister for Industry, Science and Technology, Karen Andrews, said recently “Nothing inspires people like space does. We want to encourage our young people to study science and maths at school, we want to be able to demonstrate to them … that there are jobs in the space sector, and South Australia is now leading the charge.”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-11/australian-space-agency-to-be-based-in-adelaide/10608202

    If “Nothing inspires people like space” then the logical direction for a campaign that actually intends to save the Earth is to put space to work to save the Earth.

    Who would march in the streets for that?

    I have been working toward a space environmental option happening since 1976, slowly figuring out how we can put space to work to save the Earth. Part of that solution is the inspiration factor.

    The other part is that space creates careers, work, and business opportunities.

    It is up to us, all of us, to ensure that space works to save the Earth.

    • Katherine Bennit

      July 10, 2019 at 10:43 am

      You tube Professor Freeman Dyson says CO2 is good for the plants and new forests are sprouting up as never before.

      Also when the atmosphere reaches a certain amount of CO2 saturation it cannot take any more. The excess goes to the soil, I think – but I can’t remember now as I’ve been looking at so many different explanations that I am getting a bit confused.

  44. Ted Mead

    December 14, 2018 at 3:53 pm

    KIm – the reason you can’t get any answers to your CO2 queries is because nobody has any.

    Our oceans are already saturated with CO2, and will only become more acidic as time progresses.

    The current technology we have for extracting CO2 is insignificant towards having any impact.

    We need to come up with trillions of photosynthesis machines to do the job that plants do.

    Revegetating the Earth in a decade or two is an insurmountable task.

    You need not think about going to Mars to live as that’s what we are making of Earth now!

    • Kim Peart

      December 14, 2018 at 7:56 pm

      Thanks, Ted. If the real need is to extract CO2 down under 350 ppm, why is all the talk about reducing CO2 emissions?

      A focus on reducing CO2 emission doesn’t seem very logical, when a 1980s level of CO2 is what will take us to 1.5C temperature rise, with who knows how much extra heat waiting to happen with all the extra CO2 in the air, and also absorbed into the sea, since the 1980s, and now increasing way too fast.

      I wrote to another academic today, freshly back from the COP24 in Poland, and maybe I will get an intelligent reply, unless they have gone into hiding.

      If the real action to be addressed is the extraction of CO2 from the air, then surely that is where the debate needs to focus.

      Once there is an effective plan for CO2 extraction, and for cooling the Earth, then reducing carbon emissions will be realistic.

      Why mention Mars?

      The challenge is to win back a safe Earth.

      If one way to do this is with solar power stations in space, to gain access to the level of energy required to do the work, then that can be looked at, and the maths to boot.

      If we are in an undeclared planet state of emergency, then why aren’t we debating massive solar thermal plants in the Earth’s deserts, dedicated to the extraction of CO2 from the air.

      If we need to cool the Earth, as excess CO2 is being extracted, then why allow the fossil fuel industries to sell us on pumping sulphur into the air???

      The safe clean green way to cool the Earth at a serious level, is with an adjustable sunshade in space.

      I am left wondering if it is some religious position that makes people as blind as deep sea fish to the space options.

      Or is it fossil fuel propaganda, that effectively has people mentally trapped on Earth, as willing customers of their death fuel.

      All space options were on the table in the 1970s, which would have led to transition out of fossil fuel, and we would have avoided the carbon crisis entirely.

      The worst case outcome, delivered by environmental scientists Guy McPherson, gives us a decade to party into oblivion.

      I look at the CO2 maths, and wonder if there is a carbon elephant in the room, which everyone talks around, as if its isn’t there.

      But, that elephant is growing larger by the hour.

      • Russell

        December 15, 2018 at 8:20 am

        “If the real need is to extract CO2 to below 350 ppm, why is all the talk about reducing CO2 emissions?”

        Because that’s a political and lobby group scam to keep fossil fuels burning. Wake up, Kim.

        Trees need to be planted, fossil fuel power stations shut down and land clearing immediately stopped.

        “Why aren’t we debating massive solar thermal plants in the Earth’s deserts?”

        Debating gets nothing done, Kim. It’s a stalling tactic to make sure nothing happens. Put some panels on your roof, and DO something!

        • Kim Peart

          December 15, 2018 at 1:50 pm

          Russell writes ~ “Debating gets nothing done, Kim.”

          Note to self ~ DO NOT engage Russell. He doesn’t engage in debate.

          • Russell

            December 16, 2018 at 7:31 am

            Note to self: DO NOT read anything Kim writes. He doesn’t actually DO anything but ponder this or ponder that. Like most people, he just sits on his lazy backside and waits and begs for everyone else to do the work for him.

            I doubt anyone reads your long-winded posts Kim, because they’re all the same whining and moaning rants speculating this and pondering that while accepting that Climate Change is a reality, but do you do ANYTHING to help everyone else in stopping it? NO!

  45. Kim Peart

    December 14, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    Keith Antonysen writes ~ “We do not know when we will bypass tipping points that cannot be stopped.” ~ and refers to 1.5C as the temperature rise to stay under.

    At this point I am quite puzzled, as 350 ppm CO2 is the tipping point, according to James Hansen, which will deliver 1.5C temperature rise.

    But, 350 ppm CO2 in the air was sailed by in the 1980s.

    How has the critical tipping point for massive temperature rise not been hit already, in the 1980s, and only going up ever higher ever since?

    To me this looks like a rubber band that has been stretched to breaking point, and one day will snap, delivering a sudden and massive heat rise.

    Are we now in an undeclared state of planet emergency?

    • Jon Sumby

      December 14, 2018 at 7:54 pm

      Kim, you misunderstand Hansen’s work. The purpose of 350.org, and the nature of the temperature boundaries:

      ‘Paleoclimate data show that climate sensitivity is ∼3°C for doubled CO2, including only fast feedback processes. Equilibrium sensitivity, including slower surface albedo feedbacks, is ∼6°C for doubled CO2 for the range of climate states between glacial conditions and ice-free Antarctica. Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, the planet being nearly ice-free until CO2 fell to 450±100 ppm; barring prompt policy changes, that critical level will be passed, in the opposite direction, within decades.

      If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm, but likely less that.

      The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings. An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of seeding irreversible catastrophic effects.’

      https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2008/2008_Hansen_ha00410c.pdf

      • Kim Peart

        December 15, 2018 at 1:38 pm

        For Hansen’s account of the founding of 350.org go to page 140, “Storms of My Grandchildren”, 2009.

        The critical figure in the quote is 350 ppm CO2 to be able to keep planet temperature rise under 1.5C

        Hansen would prefer a 1C cap, the present heat level, which is still not very nice considering how unprecedented fires in Queensland recently burned into the rainforest which doesn’t normally burn.

        I wonder if the best safe target will be to extract excess CO2 down to 300 ppm.

    • Keith Antonysen

      December 15, 2018 at 7:27 am

      Kim … A number of times I have written that all we can expect to do is ward off the worse impacts of climate change.

      I quoted a comment from the IPCC in relation to a 1.5C increase in the temperature. It is not a particularly safe goal. But we will not achieve the 1.5C goal, a temperature dangerous in relation to thawing of the permafrost in tundra areas, Anton Vaks et al.

      Already, at the time of the Paris Accord, a number of scientists were suggesting that 1.5C above the pre-Industrial Age temperature was unattainable .. eg Professor Kevin Anderson.

      Extreme action needs to happen to ward off the worst of anthropogenic caused climate conditions.

      • Kim Peart

        December 15, 2018 at 1:20 pm

        Keith, is there any chance of offering a plan, or referring to a plan, that will win back a safe Earth?

        Details are critical on the size of the problem, with the volume of CO2 in the air at each ppm and rising, and the amount of energy needed to do this work. The plan will also need to include a safe way to cool the planet as CO2 is being extracted. The aim may be to get CO2 down to 300 ppm to keep temperature rise at 1C.

        At a thumb-nail, it appears that the 1940s level of CO2 in the air has driven 1C. The trouble is, once CO2 is aloft, there it remains for a century or more unless removed. The current level of CO2 will drive a future higher temperature because CO2 takes a long time to deliver heat rise. That is what I read about concerning the forcing effect of CO2.

        When you write “all we can expect to do is ward off the worse impacts of climate change” I wonder what this means. It seems like a dangerous waltz with survival as we don’t know what the less than worse effects will be, or how dangerous this will make life for us and the health of the planet, or if environmental crises will lead to conflict that slides into nuclear madness.

        Fires burning into the rainforest in Queensland, the bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef, and the death by heat of 700 km of mangroves across northern Australia, are what happens at 1C. I suggest that we are already getting to deeper into worse impacts, and the process of killing has hardly begun.

        A Guardian editorial declares (13 Dec) “The world’s leading climate scientists, in a special report for the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), have warned that there is only a dozen years for global warming to be kept to a maximum of 1.5C.”

        UN Secretary-general Antonio Guterres warned delegates at COP24 in Poland, that “Failure to reach an agreement on climate change would be ‘suicidal.'”

        The failure to have a plan on the table that will win back a safe Earth simply opens the way for the fossil fuel moguls to make profits from pumping sulphur into the air to cool the planet as they keep on flogging fossil fuels.

        The space plan of the 1970s would have side-stepped the carbon crisis entirely. Was it out of some form of religious conviction that the Earth people, conservationists and environmentalists, freshly inspired by the Earthrise photo from the Moon, could not consider a space option?

        Instead of launching transitions out of fossil fuel, licence was maintained for fossil fuel moguls to keep on flogging fossil fuel. The mild green alternatives presented no threat to fossil fuel profits, and did not deliver any transition out of fossil fuel.

        If the Earth matters, if human survival counts, why is the space option still being rejected? This rejection of space further empowers the fossil fuel moguls to flog fossil fuel and look with glee toward flogging sulphur.

        Once a plan is in action that will win back a safe Earth, and a space plan can deliver that just as WWII was won, just as the Manhattan Project delivered the nuclear age, just as the Apollo program delivered astronauts to the Moon, and at the same time all Earth-based action can proceed knowing that it will be effective in a larger scheme which will win back a safe Earth.

        I suggest that an Earth-only plan will not work because human society now exists in the context of the Solar System where solar power radiates from the Sun, with satellites in space, with serious plans to go to the Moon, and any chance of dealing with an asteroid threat only being possible in space.

        If the space option is so bad then spell that out, but be sure that you are not simply writing out another open licence for the fossil fuel moguls to sell death.

        Would a space plan that will save the Earth be worth marching in the streets for?

        • Kim Peart

          December 15, 2018 at 5:02 pm

          Further Keith .. if taking a whole system approach, applying the precautionary principle, and hedging all bets, a number of other factors need to be kept in mind:

          We are stressing the Earth system with our sustainability presence, demanding more resources than the Earth can provide, and which has already triggered the sixth great extinction on Earth.

          There could be an unexpected rapid increase in heat due to the Earth system seeking a new and hotter environmental balance, as warned of by James Lovelock, in part due to the Sun being warmer now than in the past. The speed of the current CO2 increase, and heat rise, may simply overwhelm the Earth system, driving our planet to hell and potential extinction for us.

          The Great Filter theory could be presenting us with a warning from the stars, that planet civilisations have a really bad habit of burning their fossil fuels too much and too long, instead of making energy transition to the power of their star and securing their cosmic survival. That there is no sight or sound of any alien activity in space lends weight to the prospect of a Great Filter event being all too common. We only have to look at what we are doing on Earth now. We had the chance to begin energy transition in the 1970s by building solar power stations in space, but failed to see the light, and here we are getting deeper into a carbon pickle. Once a planet civilisation has secured its survival in space, sending small robot explorers can happen with a solar sail powered by a laser beam drawing energy from a star. That is with our level of technology. In the blink of a cosmic eye, we could have a presence at every star in the galaxy, at the speed of a solar sail. Who knows what we could be capable of in another century? The fact that there is no sign or sound of ET is an eerie silence that we cannot dismiss lightly. We are very close to a sustainable presence in space now which would indicate to us, if there is to be a Great Filter event in our future, it is in our very near future. This lends weight to concerns about a rapid rise in heat on Earth before we can secure a survival presence in space.

          We can put this to the test by making a giant leap to a survival presence in space, where we will have direct access to the power of the Sun to do any work, and will be able to use that power to win back a safe Earth.

          Would a safe Earth, won by space action, be worth marching in the streets for?

  46. Kim Peart

    December 14, 2018 at 10:28 am

    No one has answered my question of 11 December at 4:29pm ..

    James Hansen concluded that 1.5C temperature rise was the threshold of extreme danger with climate change. Hansen also concluded that to keep planet temperature rise under 1.5C, atmospheric CO2 must be under 350 ppm. That is where the name of Bill McKibben;s organisation came from ~ 350.org

    350 ppm CO2 in the air was a level passed in the 1980s. Does that mean that all addition CO2 in the air above 350 ppm is heat pending above 1.5C rise (now passing 400 ppm and rising by 2 ppm per annum)?

    James Lovelock warned that this heat rise could happen suddenly, and Guy McPherson sees extreme heat rise happening within a decade which he sees as a terminal event for human society. Is the main environmental challenge we face, then, the extraction of excess CO2 from the air?

    Where will the energy come from to do this work? How soon could this work occur?

    I have attempted to get answers from academics on these questions, but the questions are ignored.

    Why? Is there a deeper level of denial going on here, with the main environmental challenge we face being ignored?

    If CO2 extraction is the main game we face, then why is this not being debated?

    Once a timely plan for CO2 extraction is identified, is demanded, and is occurring, then cutting carbon emissions will be realistic, with force for action.

    Why let governments get away with playing around with cutting carbon emissions when they should be mobilising globally for CO2 extraction from the air?

    The level of CO2 to be dealt with is much higher, because so much of the CO2 has gone into the oceans which will come back out of the sea when CO2 is being extracted from the air.

    The total tonnage of CO2 involved is humongous.

    There is something really odd about any debate or discussion around climate change which politely ignores this CO2 elephant in the middle of the room.

    If I am wrong, please argue me down with facts and figures. If I am right, why is this core carbon strife being ignored?

    The children know there is something terribly wrong.

    What is wrong in dealing with the full Monty of the brutal truth we face?

    • MjF

      December 14, 2018 at 5:42 pm

      Dunno what’s going on there, Kim. Ask Keith Antonyson and Russell Langfield. They got all the answers normally.

      One of them is on Facebook and email feeds, but not usually Google.

      • Russell

        December 15, 2018 at 8:21 am

        It’s not that we have all the answers. It’s that you have none.

  47. Russell

    December 14, 2018 at 7:35 am

    MJF on 13.12.2018 6:03pm says: “A pity Chris has to bring out Canadian planters to get the season done. ‘Not enough locals are prepared to do the work’ he says, Simon.”

    Really? How much did that cost? Is that how the whole industry works? You get in slave labour from elsewhere and take jobs away from locals? No wonder the unemployment rate in the north-west of Tasmania, and wherever else plantations are located, is so high.

    • Mjf

      December 14, 2018 at 9:14 am

      Really, don’t know, no, and no.

      Ask the unemployed around you why they prefer Newstart and cash jobs.

      • spikey

        December 14, 2018 at 11:30 am

        I asked some. They just don’t like how our disgraceful, unsustainable forestry industry is run.

        • Mjf

          December 14, 2018 at 2:12 pm

          Really ? You just made that up, Spike.

          • spikey

            December 14, 2018 at 4:59 pm

            Mate, clearly you have the same doey-eyed view of newstart, as some of me mates have of Nauru.

            Most peeps I know are sick of this unsustainable …. masquerading as a solution, under the ………… acronym of STT.

            Keep pimping, obfuscating and playing the game, for unsustainable forestry, mining and whatever other political circus you care to represent.

            Personally I think you had more credibility, playing the dumb forester.

          • spikey

            December 14, 2018 at 6:56 pm

            Apparently my words were considered a little coarse.
            Please feel free to substitute something like excrement, and something like excrement polishing, where my comment was edited.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Spikey, It’s best to comply with TT’s Code of Conduct: https://tasmaniantimes.com/the-legal-bits/

            Here’s an extract:

            General prohibitions

            You must not up-load, post, transmit or otherwise make available through this site any material which:

            ~ violates or infringes the rights of others (including their privacy and publicity rights).
            ~ is unlawful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, invasive of privacy, vulgar, obscene, profane or which may harass or cause distress or inconvenience to, or incite hatred of, any person.

            — Moderator

      • Russell

        December 15, 2018 at 8:15 am

        Did you bother to ask the unemployed around you if they wanted a job planting trees?

        Still, slave labour is slave labour. Funny how we don’t allow people into our country .. unless they work for almost nothing and/or in deplorable conditions.

        Maybe they wouldn’t be offered as much as a forest practices desk-jockey who hardly bent his back in his life! As usual, those who actually do all the hard work to make the profits of the office parasites, get the least.

        Why didn’t you plant your own trees? Too hard? I’ve planted and still plant thousands of them. Mind you, those I plant aren’t exotic weeds, nor are they ripped up in a handful of years.

    • Simon Warriner

      December 14, 2018 at 8:59 pm

      Actually Russell, I had quite a long conversation over that fence and it transpires that the Canadians are professional tree planters who choose to come south during the winter to continue earning and have a holiday rather than just taking a holiday in Canada. They move around Canada during the year following the planting seasons. Seemed like a nice bunch of people and the relationship I observed between them and their employer certainly did not appear slave like to me. Much more like sensible adults co-operating for their mutual benefit.

      I am no fan of the MIS stuff, but I am still prepared to listen and learn, and prefer to deal with facts rather than perceptions when they are available.

      • spikey

        December 14, 2018 at 9:35 pm

        I think you’re missing the point here, Simon.

        When all the Tasmanian native forest, converted to plantations and sold to dubious international interests to pay off ridiculous forestry debts, start bringing in their own ‘professional planters’ … where’s the jobs, jobs, jobs for the local Tasmanians who expected the unsustainable timber industry to be their saviour?

        Planting and pruning should have been part and parcel of any well managed forestry intention, making sure locals were paid enough to make it worthwhile, otherwise it wasn’t worthwhile.

        These are nothing more than northern Mexicans, taking our local trumpistan jobs. Best build a wall, or stop pretending the industry is worth more than it is, which is a total dead-weight on Tasmania’s economy, social cohesion and environment.

        Seriously.

      • Russell

        December 15, 2018 at 8:25 am

        So the jobs weren’t actually offered locally at all?

        • Simon Warriner

          December 15, 2018 at 10:17 am

          Did I say that, Russell? Sometimes your inability to read is a concern.

          Spikey, I get where you are coming from, but we have a problem with how we are currently addressing the manual labour issue in this country. It starts in school where we expose our kids to the cognitive dissonance of teachers who think that anyone without a degree is a failure, and at the same time run the line that every participant deserves a prize no matter how pathetic their effort. After the damage from that, and the example of at least their parents and in some cases grandparents living on welfare, it is little wonder those whose mental attributes limit their employment options give up, while thinking that employment is beyond them.

          I grew up in a region where someone with a strong back and the urge to make a dollar could do very well in spite of not being at all academic. 3 kids, the year behind me at our small rural school, brought their first farms before they were 25, and two paid cash. All on physical labour. Several others travelled the world and came back better educated and informed. All are now solid members of their communities. At least one was told by his teachers he would never amount to anything.

          Those opportunities may have diminished but they are not yet gone, but if we do not, as a society, inculcate a work ethic in our then kids we will deliver exactly the dystopia you claim is the fault of a small contractor trying to make a dollar. The reason that group did so well was because of a program that put successful people who had taken that route in front of the kids, and showed those kids how to do it. Surely you could support something like that, even for planting trees.

          I loath MIS forestry, but I am not that blinded by it that I cannot see the wood for the trees.

          Seriously.

  48. max

    December 13, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    Rob, you see the problem but you refuse to accept it. Why? This list will sheet home the cause but not the solution …

    (1) power prices have gone out of control because of the Liberal policies of encouraging private enterprise and selling the farm.

    (2) Oil has gone offshore because our government sold out to private enterprise the oil fields and the production. Look up Norway.

    (3) The immigration problem was the result of America and its allies destroying the infrastructure and the livelihood of the countries it invaded. As one of the willing, should we except any responsibility?

    At present, we lock up desperate boat people and throw away the key while allowing possible terrorists and criminals in on possibly false passports and visas, with perhaps more than 62,000 .. and in 2017, 245,000 legal migrants arrived by plane. Does any of this make sense?

    (4) Unless Morrison and his neoliberal party except the fact that climate change is happening, something even kids can see, they will be out in the wilderness until someone in the party gets their head out of their nether region.

    (5) A sobering thought: We rely on America for our defence. In the Korean war, America nearly lost, and in the Vietnam war they lost, and both times China was involved. China was a developing country then, but now it is a nuclear power with the means of missile delivery, and a modern navy, army and air force.

    Would America come to our aid with the very real possibility it would be defeated? It’s a hypothetical question, but one that we should look at before we upset out main trading partner.

    China can do without us, but can we do without them?

  49. Keith Antonysen

    December 13, 2018 at 6:40 am

    MjF … How many young people do you project will die, become very sick, or lose major assets through the reckless development of new coal mines or extensions to coal mines?

    https://www.arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card

    https://www.ecowatch.com/global-climate-policies-warming-projections-2623065326.html?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=ad8befbf3d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-ad8befbf3d-86074709

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/earth-death-spiral-radical-action-climate-breakdown?
    CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR3GMuofsKAesd2g9tEj3l1U7AMt3lGMPMCHux_yoKmYRFdLjHoH3h_Ej6U

    • Mjf

      December 13, 2018 at 1:03 pm

      Keith, by when ? Parameters needed, please.

      On the other hand, how’s about you show me your alternative viable income stream plans for state and federal budgeting and job replacement? Then you can pack up the mines at your leisure. No problem. And reimburse all those miners who have currently invested money to have environmental approvals issued to commence greenfield developments or extensions/resumptions to brownfield sites, not to mention the follow-on breaches of off-take agreements currently in place by dozens of miners by not supplying product.

      Note, a political about face to close coal and gas production as directed by you will not be protected by any force majeure clause (ie acts of god) so someone will have to pay .. and pay dearly.

      Oh, you don’t have any plan yet ? Surely you can Google something.

      • Keith Antonysen

        December 13, 2018 at 5:50 pm

        MjF … I use the information I receive on Facebook and emails. I use Google infrequently.

        Decades ago scientists warned us about what can be expected if greenhouse gas emissions aren’t reduced. We are now seeing the folly of not taking into account what scientists have been saying.

        You apparently do not read the references I provide.

        I have had articles published in Tasmanian times, including ..

        https://tasmaniantimes.com/2018/07/at-what-date-do-you-wish-to-see-a-dystopian-world-or-your-children-or-grand/

        Constant research is published, though virtually nothing from sceptical scientists.

        https://www.arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card

        https://www.ecowatch.com/global-climate-policies-warming-projections-2623065326.html?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=ad8befbf3d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-ad8befbf3d-86074709

        Try the IPCC Report, and the more recent US Report.

        MjF .. you are not able to guarantee safety to young people.

        • Mjf

          December 14, 2018 at 1:33 am

          Keith, and your transition plan .. is what ?

          • Russell

            December 14, 2018 at 7:43 am

            It’s glaringly obvious to most, Martin. Stop burning fossil fuels, stop cutting down forests, and go completely to renewable (that excludes biofuels) energy.

            There are more sustainable jobs and money to be made in renewables, as well as securing the environmental benefits. I see only negative outcomes with your Neanderthal industries.

          • Keith Antonysen

            December 14, 2018 at 9:24 am

            Mjf … I’m not a policy maker. It is what the Federal Government is meant to be involved with.

            We were informed years ago that as time goes on, the costs increase to ward off the worst impacts of climate change. We do not know when we will bypass tipping points that cannot be stopped.

            An ice-free Arctic Ocean is one such tipping point. The Arctic Report which I have referenced indicates that 95% of multi-year ice has been lost. It is the multi-year ice that is the glue that holds sea ice together.

            Tundra areas in the Arctic region also potentially form a tipping point.

            From a reference provided … “The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warned in October that limiting warming to 1.5˚C above pre-industrial levels was possible but would require social and technological change on a scale for which ‘there is no documented historic precedent,’ The Washington Post reported.”

            Previously, you complained about me quoting from source material, but it is clear that you do not read the references provided.

            Just wondering Mjf, do you keep pouring petrol onto a fire? That is what governments are doing in relation to anthropogenic climate change.

            You state you were a Forester. There would have been areas you could only advise on, rather than, make plans for .. policy being in the domain of politicians.

            The LNP doesn’t listen. The business-as-usual approach equals death.

  50. Rob Halton

    December 13, 2018 at 6:39 am

    Editor, thank you for holding this important article at the fore front of TT. Its a pity that some of the students do not subscribe to commentary!

    Can you think of a way to influence a broader audience to include our next generation of voters /TT !

    I have no idea how their student networks operate nor am I familiar enough to talk to any students that I know from around the neighborhood, most of my neighbors are good people but touchy and afraid politically to want to speak out.

  51. Rob Halton

    December 13, 2018 at 4:26 am

    Good point on resources MJF, as foresters we know money quite literally does not grow on trees, well not for high value timber products for which we should be growing more of!
    At times I have been hesitant about the resources boom especially for serving the insatible needs of China. Pity we do not have a reliable and environmentally acceptable use here at home for coal, as well!

    Petrochemical conversion process for coal similar to Bob Katters consistent talk about ethenol for fuel from sugar cane or is it sugar beet in the case of fuel production!

    The likely hood of China getting nasty by blocking our sea lanes is possible to starve the nation of oil as we only have three weeks supply at any one time! If China does not get what they want they will create excuses for blockages in many shapes and forms as it is obvious with recent events in Canada for detaining a Chinese national and consequential tit for tat, the implications of a certain Chinese member of the WA Labor government with close links to the Communist Chinese Military as well as the fall out from Huawei’s 5G telecommunications roll out with an undersea cable planned linking Shanghai- Sydney – Auckland- Valparaiso are adding up to what I suspect is initially a diplomatic stoush which will escalate into a cold war of heated exchanges with Australia and its supporting Western nations of Canada and of cause the US.

    The arrest of Meng Wanzhou the daughter of the founder of telecommunications giant Huawei by the Canadian authorities will send profound shock waves around the globe.
    Canada is under pressure from the US to bar Huawei technology from its 5G network, I believe the ban has already imposed by Australia, partly by NZ and of cause by Japan.

    As a consequence giving the known ability for China to spy on other nations, the Federal election will see a dramatic shift in migration policy which could be one of PM Morrison’s signature policies about numbers, sustainability and racial mix.

    At some point and now is the perfect time to address population mix issues and there are good reasons to choose who deserves to come to Australia, will settle without difficult compromises and contribute to society and to OUR economy!

    Of cause it wont be popular among some parts of the multicultural population who only think of themselves for themselves, one can bet the Greens, to a certain extent Labor and the Phelps seduced Independents could play the racial card against PM Morrison instead as a grab for votes!

    Now there will be some interesting conversations coming up as Climate Change scare campaigns turn to other issues such as migration for which the PM appears so far to have a no nonsense approach!

    • Russell

      December 13, 2018 at 9:06 am

      Money doesn’t grow on trees when you give them away. It does for those who give it away though, via all the public money wasted on the industry to the tune of $654,000 per week each week for 30 years.

    • Mjf

      December 13, 2018 at 1:12 pm

      RCH … “we know money quite literally does not grow on trees”.

      But it does, Robin. A growing plantation tree = more tonnes harvested = more money earned. In addition, an owner can elect to participate in a carbon aggregation scheme to grow trees a bit longer, and manage for sawn product, and get paid every couple of years to do so based on a calculated amount per ha planted, instead of clear-felling at age 15 for just chip and small peeler.

      So you see money literally drips from plantation trees post establishment.

      • Russell

        December 14, 2018 at 7:25 am

        If “more tonnes harvested = more money earned” then why are all the duped growers pulling up their nitens and converting them back to pasture and crops?

        Why did so many MIScam investors lose ALL their investment? And why has FT/STT lost $654,000 per week each week for 30 years?

        So you see .. money literally vanishes into thin air from plantation trees, post establishment.

      • Trevor Burdon

        December 14, 2018 at 10:02 am

        But not for the GPL MIS investors who established them.

      • Russell

        December 15, 2018 at 8:37 am

        How about you tell us, just once, why this industry has been losing $654,000 per week for three decades.

  52. Mjf

    December 12, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    This financial year Queensland will earn $5 billion dollars in mining royalties.

    $5 billion means 5 x one million millions (in British English)

    Goodness knows what WA will earn.

    In Qld’s case, this almost obscene figure is received from coal, gas, bauxite, gold and assorted other minor minerals. The lion’s share comes from coal and gas of course. Imagine what that sort of income could do for any state government’s budget, not to mention the flow-on effect to independent businesses big and small, GST, PAYG and company tax. The trickle down effect just never ends.

    Shut down coal and gas by all means, but have your alternative viable income stream plans ready. The reality is no state can afford to not exploit natural resources.

    • Wining Pom

      December 13, 2018 at 5:42 am

      Sunshine is a great natural resource, and Australia receives a lot of it.

    • Russell

      December 13, 2018 at 9:09 am

      Wrong again, Martin. One billion is one thousand times one million. Back to school for you.

      Then again, everything is always exaggerated regarding profit in resource extraction speak.

      • Mjf

        December 13, 2018 at 12:40 pm

        Yours is the American and less accepted definition Langfield .. but you know best.

        • Wining Pom

          December 13, 2018 at 1:47 pm

          From Google: ‘British English has now adopted the American figure, though, so that a billion equals a thousand million in both varieties of English.’

          But, standing room only if MjF’s 7 billion are on the planet.

        • Simon Warriner

          December 13, 2018 at 3:07 pm

          So, a question: If 1,000,000 is a million, and according to Martin a billion is 1,000,000,000,000 then what is the correct term for this amount: 1,000,000,000, according to the system Martin is using?

          I had an interesting conversation with your tree planter on your Nietta plantation over the fence the other day, Martin. Nice bloke. I learned lots, some of it very interesting. I can see why you are so enthusiastic.

          • MjF

            December 13, 2018 at 6:03 pm

            A pity Chris has to bring out Canadian planters to get the season done. ‘Not enough locals are prepared to do the work’ he says, Simon.

          • Simon Warriner

            December 14, 2018 at 2:31 pm

            Yes, Martin, he mentioned that. I would imagine a reasonable income could be made doing that job on piece work rates. Its a bit like shearing and brick laying. It needs people prepared to champion the industry to get into the schools and talk to the kids at yr 9 who might be interested in the opportunity and to show them the pathway. Something you could talk to your industry reps about. I know a bit about how it worked successfully for both those other industries so if you want to discuss further get Linz to flick me your contact details. More than happy to help keep the jobs here and the money they create.

        • Russell

          December 14, 2018 at 7:30 am

          You are correct that I know best, but you are WRONG that my definition is the less accepted, as our own Government and ALL economists talks in terms of 1,000 x 1,000,000.

          Keep up your misinformation campaign Mr Fitch .. everyone else knows better than you.

          • Mjf

            December 14, 2018 at 10:11 am

            1,000,000 x 1,000,000

            Any numbskull knows that, Mr Langfield. Back to Kimberley prep in the new year.

          • Russell

            December 15, 2018 at 8:34 am

            Just shows how far from reality you operate Fitch, and how pigheaded you are even knowing you are wrong. Ask whoever our latest treasurer is, just how many millions in a billion?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,000,000,000

            You’re living in the long distant past, which is why you are also so pro-extraction and pro-pollution.

            And moderator, if you’re going to continue to edit my posts and add in a “Mr”, then I expect you to do the same to everyone else. I find your editing incredibly discriminating.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

            Russell, in so often addressing Mr Martin Fitch as “Fitch” (as you have done above) you convey the impression of outright contempt for him. It appears that this is quite deliberate and wilfully nasty.

            You would do better by familiarising yourself with TT’s Code of Conduct here: https://tasmaniantimes.com/the-legal-bits/

            “So here’s a few rules of thumb to consider before you submit a comment

            1. Tone matters: A constructive, engaging and respectful tone helps facilitate better understanding on the points of disagreement and agreement between contributors.

            2. Civility promotes debate: We ask that people ‘play the ball not the person’. If you want your comments to be read by as many others as possible, sticking to the issues helps keep the discussion interesting. Avoid aggressive language, taunts, swearing and sexist comments.”

            — Moderator

  53. Rob Halton

    December 12, 2018 at 3:05 pm

    Energy costs will play a big part in the upcoming Federal election, yesterday’s media reports show already manufacturers and heavy industry face prices three times higher than the US and may be forced to shift operations overseas or shut down!

    Qld the home of three LNG export plants pays more for residential gas supplies than any US state.

    A melbourne based manufacturer is nowpaying 177% more for gas than a decade ago while in New York that same fuel is 41% cheaper than 2008 levels due to the success of the nations shale revolution.

    Electricity users are also suffering price shock with Australian power bills surging by 70% on average over the past 10 years, while remaining flat in the US.

    If Australia’s energy policy setting dont change, industry will be either forced to scale back production, investment and employment, relocate to states where gas is cheaper, move overseas or simply shut down.

    It tends to be rather confusing at present some industrial users backed Malcolm Turnbull’s signature NEG that has since been axed by his successor Scott Morrison.
    The dumped policy attempted to fuse an emissions component with a reliability requirement while also reducing the cost of wholesale electricity prices.
    The is no easy answer to the electricity problem as it will be another source of discontent as is climate policy, both are facing some sort of concern a soon the nation will go into lock down right up to polling day as politics to determine compromises will be hard fought over by all parties.

    In my opinion the bottom line is to keep the light on, preferably glowing with hope that whoever wins government energy cost and reliability could settle down, if the opposite occurs significantly affecting cost of living then expect the masses taking to the streets.

    So far I am backing the Coalition conservatives warts and all as I am not so sure about Labor, the Greens and the Phelps Independent followers who might lead us all into a darkened era of odd ball politics.

    • Wining Pom

      December 13, 2018 at 5:44 am

      Industry wants a carbon price, so I guess you support that too, Rob.

  54. max

    December 12, 2018 at 8:02 am

    The Adani coal mine is not about producing more coal exports for Australia. The one and only reason for China and India buying into the Adani coal mine is for cheaper coal. The Adani coal mine will flood the market with cheap coal to the detriment of all other coal exporters. By flooding the coal market, as in any oversupplied market, the price of coal will plummet and less efficient coal mines will close, with perhaps thousands of workers losing their jobs. Royalties will not increase in the flooded market, so the Adani coal mine is an example of how not to run an economy.

    If the reality of climate change strikes home and the world has to dramatically reduce the use of fossil fuels, then Adani will be the death knell for all other coal mines in Australia.

    “We are in trouble. We are in deep trouble with climate change,” United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres said this week at the conference. 
    According to the findings, a record 37.1 billion tons of CO2 is projected to be spewed into the atmosphere by the end of the year.
    “It is hard to overstate the urgency of our situation,” Guterres told conference attendees this week. “Even as we witness devastating climate impacts causing havoc across the world, we are still not doing enough, nor moving fast enough, to prevent irreversible and catastrophic climate disruption.”

    • Frank Strie - Terra Preta Developments

      December 15, 2018 at 11:19 am

      I’ll keep it short for a change:

      Centre for Alternative Technology, CAT.

      Our message to the UN ..

      Published on Dec 6, 2018

      130 models from across the world show that we can stop catastrophic climate change with technology that exists today.

      Speaking via video to the Energy 2050 Pavilion at COP24, Paul Allen presented our findings to the UN from our recent Zero Carbon Britain report, Raising Ambition: Zero Carbon Scenarios from Across the Globe.

      To learn more about our Zero Carbon Britain research project and on how a modern, zero-emissions society is possible with currently available technology visit http://www.zerocarbonbritain.org/en/

      • Ted Mead

        December 15, 2018 at 12:07 pm

        Yep, all good, Frank.

        The Raising Ambition strategy is inspiring and evidence based. However it is looking at a target of 2050. I think for most life on earth we would have run out of time by then at our current trajectory.

        The graphs show that there the prognosis of the world’s energy demands will be be met without coal, and 69% of it will be PV supplied. That means we have a hell of a long way to go, and countries like Australia that have huge potential will have to get cracking to reach any sort of renewable target in the foreseeable future.

        Other places such as Europe, New Zealand and California look set to make great achievements, but not Australia.

        It’s going take a monumental shift in political thinking here for us to move forward.

        That’s why our youth seems the only hope!

        • Frank Strie - Terra Preta Developments

          December 15, 2018 at 2:47 pm

          That is so true Ted, that “It’s going take a monumental shift in political thinking here for us to move forward.”

          That is what happened post IPCC 2007:
          One Graphic Designer from Kaindorf in Austria told his 4 brothers: “It (climate change) is so serious that we need to do something, because only when we do something can we change something.”

          And he proposed the Ecoregion Kaindorf, the Ökoregion has become since an example of community, a model for others, including Tasmania I like to suggest.
          This is why: “The guiding key-objective of the Ecoregion is “Carbon Neutral by 2020, what will it take?”

          Here is a couple of useful videos recorded by the Norwegian delegation during the IBI excursion to Kaindorf in June this year. You may notice on the voice that Adam O’Toole, the Program Coordinator in Norway, is originally from AUS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsN6bh9jTbk

          The humus project of the Ecoregion Kaindorf
          Now as introduction to the wide ranging Kaindorf initiative, the recently recorded presentation by Gerald Dunst, who since 2007 volunteers as the Chair for the Agriculture working group in Kaindorf, is a international award winning compost consultant and well recognised producer of designer-soils. Gerald is invited and confirmed as a special presenter at the ANZBC19 Biochar Conference next October.

          To learn how 6 small villages/regional communities work together since the release of the IPCC Climate Report in early 2007 on one shared Vision. They formed 7 Working Groups of expertise with 100 Volunteers exchanging regularly the progress and strategic plans.
          They have collectively initiated more than 300 projects covering all sorts of things to achieve the shared vision: ‘Carbon Neutral by 2020’ – what will it take?

          Because: “Only when we do something can we change something”

          How: By mobilising the community, individuals, businesses, institutions .. and by demonstrating that everyone can do something for a better climate future.

          The Video presentation link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBoyJYy1DxU

  55. Rob Halton

    December 11, 2018 at 10:07 pm

    Hello Chris, I find it unlikely that Adani will be stopped as it gives the Qld Govt decades of easy royalties from the sale of thermal coal it would be an immediate boost to Mr Gupta’s “risky” purchase of the Whyalla steel works in SA to use locally produce steel for rail and associated construction for the Adani project.

    The student protests are one thing which in theory are for a perceived good cause “reducing the impacts of global climate change”, I dont deny them of their concerns!

    Are they going to outrageous lengths to protest, I doubt it unlike Paris where the population is violently protesting over excess fuel prices and Cost of living and we still have the outfall of Brexit with PM dealing with the EU, awaiting the fall out along with the re division of Eire and Northern Ireland, awaiting for what will unfold, how will it hit the Brits hip pocket will determine the difference between riots and civil protests in the UK!

    Probably all the students can do with their influence is to encourage to vote to throw Morrison out of office, instead giving it to the Greens, the Independents less the lady from SA who should be bond to support the reinvigoration of the Whyalla steelworks.
    Shorten would be elected PM on some false grounds by upstaging Morrison over Climate Change with a fancy plan for Renewables and cheaper electricity but once elected Shorten will back off much the same as former PM Julia Gillard did with the Carbon price.

    Politics will become a greater farce than ever with Shorten and his Green and Independent backers with a continually strong economically, border control tough and national interest ambitious Morrison in Opposition.

    I will conclude that both Gupta and Adani are possibly the best way foward in an economic sense for the nation in both SA and Qld despite strong opposition from climate change advocates and their supporters. Gupta will need considerable spare income from the sale of steel to build his ambitious solar farm for which I think would be able to go a long way to power the city Whyalla.

    I suppose at the end of the day no matter which way one looks at it, economics of reliable income from resources will continue to finance public infrastructure and service providers throughout the nation into the foreseeable future!

    1 am not guessing but the practical outcome will always be about continuing with a reliable revenue stream!

  56. Kim Peart

    December 11, 2018 at 4:29 pm

    Can anyone answer this simple question?

    James Hansen was the first scientist to effectively warn the World about global warming in 1988, and later concluded that temperature rise above 1.5C would be too much, resulting in galloping heat that could not be stopped, making the planet uninhabitable, eventually. By itself, that would be a pretty rotten legacy for humans.

    It was this conclusion by Hansen that gave Bill McKibben the name for an organisation, with 350.org. Why? That’s the other side of Hansen’s equation. To keep temperature rise under 1.5C, atmospheric CO2 had to be under 350 parts per million (ppm). That is fine, but how is this going to happen, when we sailed by 350 ppm CO2 in the 1980s, as Hansen was alerting the World to a CO2 problem?

    Now CO2 in the air is going beyond 400 ppm, and rising by 2 ppm per annum. CO2 stays in the air for a century or more, and is hard to get it out again.

    Is anyone concerned that the CO2 level of the 1980s will already drive up the planet temperature beyond 1.5C? Hansen refers to this as a forcing effect. So, what will the temperature be driven up to with the current level of CO2 in the air, and rising, meaning a higher future heat with every additional ppm of CO2?

    Is the temperature rise heading toward 6C, 8C, 12C, or more?

    James Lovelock looked at the CO2 problem, and concluded that at some point there will be a sudden rise in heat because the Earth system will struggle to keep the temperature down, now destabilised by human-caused pressure with heat generated by a rising CO2 level, and also because the Sun is getting hotter, slowly but surely, so now it is 35% hotter than at its birth 4.5 billion years ago, and with so much fuel still in reserve, it will continue to heat up over the next 5 billion years until expanding to the orbit of the Earth as a red giant star .. which is basic astronomy for a star like our Sun.

    The swings between ice ages and warmer periods are normal for the Earth system, but with the current speed of the CO2 rise, and the subsequent rise in heat, Lovelock was obliged to share that there can now be a sudden heat rise.

    Environmental scientist, Guy McPherson, crunched the numbers and could see a sudden rise in heat in the coming decade. I wondered if he might be a crank, until looking at when we passed 350 ppm CO2 in the air, and was jolted awake to a far more serious planet problem.

    Are we now in an undeclared state of planet emergency?

    Do we need a ten year plan, mobilised within a year, to deal with a carbon crisis?

    Waiting to see what happens, is only an option if we have surrendered the fight to survive. Have we?

    If we will fight, we need to extract excess CO2 from the air. How soon can this happen before the heat goes too high?

    Where will the energy come from to do this work?

    Can we cool the planet, as excess CO2 is being extracted?

    This problem is such a monster that individual action, such as planting trees and putting solar panels on the home roof, will not help.

    We need a global plan of action that will deliver the volume of energy needed to extract CO2 from the air in the coming decade in order to be to be safe, and a safe way to effective cool the Earth as excess CO2 is being extracted from the air.

    When there is a global plan mobilised that offers hope, then planting trees and slamming solar panels on roofs will help, along with a wide range of other environmental actions.

    If my simple conclusion are wrong I don’t mind being corrected. But, if we are this deep in the pickles, what do we do that is effective, globally?

    Once we have a clear idea of the action needed to win back a safe Earth, then we can beat the drum on that, along with students on the march, to wake up all politicians.

    If the whole truth about the carbon crisis is not being addressed, and spoken of, then we cannot expect people to take the crisis seriously.

  57. Keith Antonysen

    December 11, 2018 at 8:46 am

    CANWEST, Climate Action North West had a demonstration yesterday to support students who had gone on strike. The demonstration began near the Life Saving Club in Burnie, and ended outside the Office of Justine Keay. Justine Keay
    spoke with the group and gave Labor’s perspective on renewables which far exceeds the non-policy of the Liberals.

    Justine Keay stated that Labor will definitely not provide any financial assistance to coal mines. Justine was given a respectful hearing. She suggested the Liberals might be a more appropriate target. The belief in the group is that Liberals
    simply do not listen. The establishment of new coal mines is also a huge worry.

    According to The Advocate, Colbeck stated ” .. the government would meets its commitment to reduce emission by 26 to 28 per cent compared to 2005 levels by 2030.” The goal set by the Liberals was a low bench mark, and yet emissions are going up and their goal is not being met. That comment was being derived from Departmental figures rather than political commentary.

    It should not be too much of a surprise that we are now in a very difficult spot. Deniers have been successful in peddling their pseudo science. The choice might be an economy seeming to operate, or there is a collapse of global economies.
    A business-as-usual approach will create further extreme climatic conditions which begin to close down parts of the economy such as Agriculture and water resources.

    Already an Insurance Company in the US has gone into Bankruptcy through not being able to accommodate the huge costs created by the Californian bushfires.

    It’s a case of do you believe politicians, or do you believe science? Politicians have a woeful record as far as truth is concerned.

    It’s young people who will gain the results of any decisions made now.

    https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/5802487/climate-change-protesters-put-pressure-on-keay/?cs=2605

  58. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    December 8, 2018 at 11:34 am

    Sorry Rob, you aren’t a waffler. I shouldn’t have said that. I just get very frustrated and impatient with people who cannot see that we are in much bigger trouble now than we were in 1939, when all we had to worry about were Nazi and Japanese fascist superstates.

    If we do not move our collective arses, as if the furies were after us, the modern period will end and we will descend into the abyss.

    You and I are getting towards the end of our lives, so what happens to us won’t really matter much. But our children and particularly the grandchildren that appear in those pictures have the most excellent and rational reasons to be absolutely terrified at what is going to happen to them, and getting upset because the current crop of supposedly responsible adults are dragging their feet like dream characters in boggy field.

    We are living in the age of mass somnambulism and the rule of the zombies!

  59. Clive Stott

    December 7, 2018 at 3:26 pm

    Washington State youth win in Climate Change Lawsuit.

    Judge Hill in Washington State, recognises Constitutional and Public Trust Rights. He announced it is the Washington Department of Ecology’s Legal Duty to Protect the Atmosphere for Present and Future Generations.

    https://lrinspire.com/2015/11/30/washington-state-youth-win-in-climate-change-lawsuit/

  60. Keith Antonysen

    December 7, 2018 at 7:44 am

    Every Friday I receive an email from AAAS outlining the latest research published.

    In today’s AAAS email there is reference to an article about the great dying 252 million years ago, research completed by Penn et al. A number of times I have referenced Dr Benjamin Burger’s chemical and geological artifacts of the end Permian Period, also known as the “great dying”.

    The latest AAAS states that we ignore what happened during the great dying at our own peril. The level of oxygen being produced is on a downward slide and marine temperatures are increasing; factors that Penn et al have identified as significant factors in the great dying.

    Penn et al state .. “These results highlight the future extinction risk arising from a depletion of the ocean’s aerobic capacity that is already under way.”

    Young people have good reason to believe that the Morrison government couldn’t care less about their future.

  61. Rob Halton

    December 7, 2018 at 7:05 am

    CEN, no need to waffle on “if I were at school today, your’e not and nor am I.
    I will be 86 in 12 years time and look foward to your doomsday time line, I hope to be still maintaing an interest in the local and global goings on, more than likely there will be some major world events take place, continued forced displacement throughout the overly populated globe!

    The key to the problem is reducing population numbers, Australia could achieve this by maintain a target of around 25-26million persons.
    As I understand it PM Morrison is keen to reduce migration intake, he has my support all of this multiculturism rot has to stop.

    I am not telling the students what they should do, when they vote, like their alternative actions re climate Change versus energy generation they need to plan for a steady transition, any abrupt actions on the population by alternative politics could have dire consequences for the nation.

    How on earth they can stop Adani that could be interesting, at least India is an Australian friendly nation, no doubt as a result of its British past the country has benifited from the thrust of Empire.

  62. Clive Stott

    December 6, 2018 at 7:44 pm

    “Maybe Clean Air Australia gets a small donation by the government via community funding!”

    Oh dear, Robin! Have a look at the Clean Air Australia website and tell me what does Clean Air Australia have to do with the price of fish?

    http://www.cleanairaust.com.au/

    Oh dear, Robin, please start and try to get your ‘facts’ right.

  63. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    December 6, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    Listen Mr Halton, if I were at school today I would know that my future has been comprehensively screwed by wilful fools who don’t listen to the advice coming from some of the most brilliant scientists of our day.

    If I were at school today I would know that the world is full of adults who are sticking their heads in the sand and pretending that business-as-usual can go on indefinitely .. which it can’t, and won’t. We have just been advised that we have about 12 years to save a future that has some vague semblance to what we have today.

    If I were at school today I would know that there is a lot of very perverse misinformation and fake news being put out by people who do not give a damn how many of their children’s generation suffer poverty and early death as a result of the inaction and confusion those unconscionable bastards sowed.

    If I were at school today, I would not give a damn how many sacrifices and losses of comfort have to be made to save ourselves. Nor would I be that worried at this stage how reliable and mature new and more appropriate technology that might slow down the march of the lemmings is right now, which incidentally, if I had read anything not funded by the coal lobby and its acolytes, I would know was already pretty good kit.

    If I were at school today I would know that the cost of saving myself is now irrelevant, in the same way that it was when, after years of denial, prevarication and the coming of war with Hitler’s Germany, the British people were prepared to sacrifice over 60% of the GNP to the war effort to save the country and prevent the emergence of a Nazi superstate.

    If I were at school today I wouldn’t give wafflers like you Mr Halton, the time of day. I would be sufficiently outraged by the treasonous pusillanimity of people, who are supposed to be responsible agents and stewards of our common future, that I would be making lists of them now, so that when we start to go down we’ll all know who is going to go down first.

    If I were at school today I would know that the bets are coming off, the stakes are becoming enormous and everyone is playing for keeps .. with what is left of my future. And I would be mentally preparing myself for war, because my history lessons tell me that when a regime fails in its fundamental duties of care, people start killing each other.

    • spikey

      December 6, 2018 at 8:29 pm

      I like the change in direction. A little melodramatic, and lacking the punch of the impending doom from homosexuals, haftas, indulgence capitalists, lefties and snowflakes. But I think you might be on to something, Christopher, siding with the angry kiddies.

      From what I can gather, the kiddies hate homophobic bigoted bullshit artists as much as they hate the rest of the bullshit.

      Please don’t feel you have to kill those who disagree with you. Keep your betting to Federal group please. You’re in the minority, and they’re surely not likely to waste any effort on you.

      • Christopher Eastman-Nagle

        December 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm

        Spikey … homophobic … bigoted? You have all the stereotypes and cliches down pat, don’t you mate? A real ideological tradesman who knows how to bolt them together. I take it that that is all you can manage.

        But as to the kiddies, you may recall that when you were their age you simply picked up on all the latest cutting edge ideological and fashion trends that happened to be drifting past at the time. I did. It takes maybe 20 years to really start to de-construct those trends and see them more clearly.

        I suspect many of those young people in the pictures above will start to see that the sexual identitarian politics of our age as a ghastly mistake reflecting society that has comprehensively lost its way, its roots, it moral compass … everything. And the results of that are bound to be awful.

        When an age starts to disintegrate and all its arrangements start coming undone, conflict and war are bound to be the result.

        Get used to it. Prepare yourself. Pull your head out, mate.

        • spikey

          December 10, 2018 at 1:20 pm

          Mate, in my opinion, one of the ghastly mistakes was permitting various churches, directed by various fascists and deviants, to dictate morality, particularly as it relates to sexuality and sexual identity.

          That you’ve grown up blissfully unaware of normal human behaviour, and treat it as some kind of revolting abnormality, speaks wonders about your upbringing.

          That you choose to frequently share such ridiculous opinions, orchestrated way back when superiority complexes, caused such deliberate rank oppression, also speaks volumes, unless you are not a misguided individual, but a guided individual up to no good .. which is where my money has been placed since you waltzed onto TT at the same time as a political push to shame homosexuality so fascist liberals could get some more hate votes.

          How about them apples, Sunshine?

    • Peter Bright

      December 7, 2018 at 7:42 am

      Christopher Eastman-Nagle says:

      “Listen Mr Halton, if I were at school today I would know that my future has been comprehensively screwed by wilful fools who don’t listen to the advice coming from some of the most brilliant scientists of our day.”

      I’ve often wondered why these “wilful fools” behave as they do. There MUST be an explanation, surely.

      https://ab.co/2G1orLR

  64. Rob Halton

    December 6, 2018 at 3:35 pm

    National media today warns Australians that a rush into Renewables ” a reliability risk!

    the owner of the worlds biggest battery supplied by billionaire Elon Musk’s Tesla concedes Australai must proceed with caution in transitioning the power grid to renewables and says some developers of wind and solar farms are failing to meet industry standards.

    french clen energy developer Neoen which collabareated wirh tesla on the 100megawatt Hornsdalebattery in South Australia a year ago echoed concerns by the International energy Agency over moving too quickly in integrating largeslabs of rnewables in the nations electricity mix.

    The IEA is right in callingfor attention on how the transition happens, Not all projects are equal and not all power producers are equal, Neonen’s global chief executive Xavier Barbaro, told the Australian ” We have seen recently in Australia some developers and some projects fail”.

    AS Labor looks to revive the governments now abandoned national energy guarantee- underpinned by a 50% renewable energy target- the worlds peak energy agency warned Australia needed to ensure an “avalanche” of clean energy supply was backed up by firm generation to keep the lights on.

  65. Rob Halton

    December 6, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    Clive, I am not promoting the burning of coal, the government gets around it by exporting thermal coal.

    I agree that it is the the current big money maker for Australian governments who in turn use it to provide essential services for the public good, and to keep the economy rolling along. Maybe Clean Air Australia gets a small donation by the government via community funding!

    The student groups need to study the whole energy process/ climate change with maintaining a reliable economy very carefully before casting their vote. That would be my sound advice to them.

  66. Rob Halton

    December 6, 2018 at 11:12 am

    All very well Russell, many of the students will be voting next year but for what given that the Shorten government hasnt the capacity or the dosh to suddenly lunge into a rampant adventure non synchronous Renewables.

    Wind towers on the Australian landscape are the bane of society, many communities dont want these migratory bird killing monsters any whew near their habitation.

    And will Shorten stop Adani “incorporated”, unlikley!

    I am more than sure that Morrison is the best bet for PM, Shorten is untried , big talker and will told to go to hell by the Palaczuzuk Qld Labor government who is advancing into a regime of massive coal imports for which the Federal government either LNP or Labor dare not stop beacuse of the projects massive royalty payments.

    Qld will become the new WA with the coal export boom which will last for decades.

    Morrison is passionate about protecting national security and is likely to reduce migrant numbers to a sustainable level.

    • Russell

      December 10, 2018 at 6:53 am

      What do you mean? They’ve got billions to hand over to a criminal coal miner, off-shore prisons and Dutton’s gestapo.

      We can’t afford NOT to transition to renewables.

  67. Clive Stott

    December 6, 2018 at 9:57 am

    Robin, you have demonstrated in the pages of Tasmanian Times for years that you support a dirty Tasmania and a dirty Australia with your burn, burn, burn mentality in relation to wood. You promote your dirty old wood heater as being something wonderful that you say you want to hand on down to your kids. Well, with a bit of luck your kids, like these kids, will turf it the minute you cark it.

    Now you promote burning coal whether it be in this country or overseas. You are so obsessed with burning that you can’t see the direct connection with climate change.

    But it goes further than that. I feel you really do not have the ability to think past number one with your arguments. You just worry about you. Kind of selfish don’t you think?

    No wonder our kids are out of school protesting the likes of you, and as for your last comment, “I am happy to let them speak!” .. since when do they need your permission??

    Clive Stott
    http://www.cleanairtas.com

    • Mjf

      December 10, 2018 at 11:58 am

      Clive, the much revered http://www.cleanairtas.com/ seems somewhat out of date.

      The Latest news section includes such gems as “Joe Hockey lets off smoke” and “Julie Bishop sucks up smoke”. Not to mention a link to Gunns pulp mill.

      The most recent reference I could see during a quick look was from 2016. Does no-one bother to maintain the site ?

      • Peter Black

        December 10, 2018 at 12:54 pm

        MjF … Wrong. I’ve never been to the CleanAir site, so I gave it a look.

        This is the latest I could see in a half minute look: https://lrinspire.com/2015/11/30/washington-state-youth-win-in-climate-change-lawsuit/ .. an exciting win for the children’s future which only came out last week.

        So that makes you Wrong there, MjF chap.

        • Mjf

          December 10, 2018 at 6:12 pm

          Awesome work, Peter. CC story posted 30/11/2015. Maybe take more time.

          I’m pretty sure I mentioned 2016 .. or did I just imagine it ?

          Clive, are contributions slow coming in ?

  68. Rob Halton

    December 6, 2018 at 6:41 am

    The students at the same time have to think what a new economy would look like without coal exports.

    It’s not a plain and simple game of protesting over one thing when a whole host of economics based on coal exports is required to support their education, health and opportunities, in fact for the nation.

    I am happy to let them speak!

    • Russell

      December 6, 2018 at 7:01 am

      Without an environment there is NO economy.

    • Russell

      December 6, 2018 at 7:04 am

      A lot of these kids will be voting for the first time next year, Robin. Kiss Morrison goodbye.

    • Keith Antonysen

      December 6, 2018 at 7:55 am

      Rob, the effects of climate change have been known for decades. Policy makers have no excuse in relation to not having begun to work towards mitigation and adaptation many years ago.

      Right now the starting point needs to be creating no further new coal mines or extensions to coal mines.

      We have already had 5 wasted years caused through inaction on the part of the Federal LNP. They clearly do not believe in Physics, Chemistry or other science disciplines. In relation to climate change policy the LNP has been useless. In relation to emissions from fossil fuels in Australia, the truth has been a casualty.

      Kelly O’Dwyer accurately interpreted perceptions held in Australia by the electorate when she stated that the LNP is perceived to be homophobic, anti-women, and composed of climate change deniers.

      https://myaccount.news.com.au/sites/heraldsun/subscribe.html?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&mode=premium&dest=https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/state-election/kelly-odwyer-says-liberals-now-viewed-as-homophobic-antiwomen-climatechange-deniers/news-story/1ba24b638ff1b975eb06cf8027c8da07&memtype=anonymous

      • Peter Black

        December 6, 2018 at 12:44 pm

        Keith, whatever format you are writing in goes right over the page edge on a mobile device, making your comments unreadable. Shame, as I find your input worth reading, and your links worth following up. But it is not only Keith’s comments.

        My understanding was that the new TT format was to be mobile-device friendly, part of the reason for the change. Well TT, it’s not mobile device friendly.

        Also, the debates are hard to follow, due to most comment replies not being answered direct on the ‘Reply’ tab.

        The old TT format with each ‘Comment’ having a number, and replies referring to that number, made it very easy to follow.

        Due to my not having an Internet connection, due to location, all my Internet engagements and comments are done on a mobile device, and I can assure you, this new TT format is akin to a dogsbody in trying to follow it, and certainly NOT mobile device friendly.

        • Russell

          December 7, 2018 at 8:11 am

          Peter, connect your PC via a USB to your mobile to get the Internet on it.

        • Keith Antonysen

          December 8, 2018 at 7:25 pm

          Peter … I noticed that also an over run of words, so I made what appears to have been a successful attempt to make sure it does not happen again with my comment above on 7th.

    • max

      December 6, 2018 at 10:07 am

      Rob, you need to have a reality check.

      You were wrong on forestry. Clear felling is a destroyer of forestry’s future, and you are wrong on climate change.

      “The students at the same time have to think what a new economy would look like without coal exports.” What is the point of an economy with no future, that is the concern of the students? Already CO2 is melting the icecaps and the glaciers, and sea levels are rising. Fires are ravaging the planet, and the greater ferocity of storms and unheard of worldwide droughts and rain bombs are causing much greater floods. What more do you need to take your blindfold off? The students can see the effect of burning coal. Why is it that you and your Neoliberalism government are blind to reality?

      Stop backing the wrong things, Rob. Your government is backing big business and ignoring climate change, and this will see the end of the world as we know it. They are doing this to satisfy their mad policies of Neoliberalism. Neoliberalism .. look it up. Our out of control power prices are a direct consequence of this stupid obsession.

      It doesn’t end there, and slavish addiction to Neoliberalism will see them out of office at the next election.

    • Mjf

      December 6, 2018 at 10:59 am

      Good point, RCH.

      The same question I’ve asked a number of times without any meaningful answers from the-end-is-nighers. Where do the 1000’s of jobs go and the billions of $’s generated into state and federal coffers annually ?

      Someone did offer a pathetic answer once that the closing of local car manufacturing provided all the answers necessary. Yes, extended dole queues interspersed with seasonal fruit picking, but with the upside of improving one’s understanding of French, Mandarin and Vietnamese. Good answer, whoever provided it. Just what the place needs.

      What royalties do solar, wind, hydro and wave pay to government coffers for comparison purposes ?

      • max

        December 6, 2018 at 1:05 pm

        MjF … What’s up with the people who worked in the forest industry, or is just you and Rob? Was it the smoke, the sprays or the indoctrination? Whatever it was it has apparently robbed you both of the mental capacity to see beyond jobs.

        STT is losing millions of dollars every year and destroying the long-term future of forestry for a handful of jobs, and the world is going into a death spiral with both you and Rob overlooking the fact in favour of jobs. You and Rob are displaying the same mentality as the millions of soldiers who have jumped out of their trenches and ran forward to certain death.
        It is a simple equation, we have exceeded the amount of CO2 the world can handle. The climate is disintegrating into total chaos, as seen on every news broadcast, the kids can see that they will not have jobs or a future unless we curb CO2, so why not some adults who should know better.

        • Mjf

          December 6, 2018 at 4:49 pm

          Dear Max, you can never answer any fiscal questions surrounding coal shut-down and the imminent economic crisis that will follow.

          It’s a certain bet that Shorten won’t have the fortitude to do anything about Galilee coal other than whisper disparagingly about it to city dwellers and fence sitters.

          No money flow, I repeat, no money flow will result for those hard of hearing. What don’t you comprehend about that, Max ?

          Perhaps the imminent reduction in your pension might wake you up a little. When will the world end, did you say ?

          • max

            December 7, 2018 at 8:10 am

            MjF … As I said, there must have been something toxic at Forestry Tasmania.

            There are only 2 people commenting on Tasmanian Times who refuse to accept, or can’t grasp, that we have passed the safe level of CO2, and that further increases will hasten the end of our world.

            That the two of you have worked in forestry seems odd.

            On fiscal questions surrounding the shut down of coal, I, and everyone commenting on this subject on TT and the concerned kids have been trying to get across, there can be no fiscal policies without an environment that we can live in.

            No-one will have pensions, superannuation or even food on the table, and you and Rob are waffling on as though we need to sell coal, and that climate change is a non-event.

        • Peter Bright

          December 7, 2018 at 5:26 pm

          Max, you have perceptively noticed that “There are only 2 people commenting on Tasmanian Times who refuse to accept, or can’t grasp, that we have passed the safe level of CO2, and that further increases will hasten the end of our world.”

          These two lads are Rob Halton and Martin Fitch, arch right-wing Liberals from way back, and as you’ve also noticed, with a background in the forestry industry.

          A notoriously prominent arch right-winger is currently the President of the United States.

          What do these three have in common?

          My sad deduction is that they are somewhat simple people deficient in intellect, and that some (or perhaps all) intellectual pursuits are beyond their grasp.

          This apparent incapacity to reason sensibly, particularly over the Climate Change furnace fast creeping up on us, infuriates those of us who accept the findings of those learned souls from the science disciplines .. professional, educated people who can actually think rationally as a way of life.

          I’ve noticed that many unthinking Liberal voters, and most Liberal politicians, have this serious personality flaw.

          https://bit.ly/2REfQA3

          https://bit.ly/2SpWMpc

          https://bit.ly/2APy6zb

  69. Keith Antonysen

    December 6, 2018 at 6:06 am

    Rob keeps spruiking Morrison as a leader we need. But, actions speak louder than words.

    This is his response to young people .. https://junkee.com/school-strike-scott-morrison/185354?fbclid=IwAR0XoPZ4EqPnpXaRZcQJZcD6GmHzADILAzCJ2aTCsHiAuoo6-h-5RSBECnQ

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/05/school-students-protest-climate-change-canberra-morrison?fbclid=IwAR3oa9KgYd1VJC2lEpoRDCLEE8m3kyF2NEhp-l33WxAgU5myeGv-tV_Jth4

    Alienating young people who will be voting in coming years is not a great idea. Snubbing young people also sends a message to voters that the LNP will not listen.

    Morrison and the LNP keep proving they do not care about young people’s futures.

  70. Rob Halton

    December 6, 2018 at 4:34 am

    While it is pleasing to see the students at last taking an interest in the politics of Climate Change there are still many challenges to be overcome before coal exits the global energy market, in fact it is clear to me it wont!

    Anyone knows that the Galilee Basin is to be the energy powerhouse of the nation producing coal for many decades Adani is planning to export coal from this area by 2020 with an initial capacity of 40 million tonnes per annum!

    Of cause there are a number of other mines planned within the Galilee basin, the now approved $6.7 billion Chinese backed MacMines, the $6 billion Gina Rinehart backed Kevins Corner and Alpha projects both run by India’s GVK have also received environmental approvals and the cash flush Clive Palmer project recommended last month to the Alpha North mine in the basin.

    Qld Resources Council boss ian Mcfarlarlane said the go ahead for the adani project would be the spring board for up to five other coal mines and possibly help mooted gas exploration in the region.

    Access to Adani’s 200Km rail line which will connect to central Queensland’s existing Aurizon freight network would help financing for neighbouring mines.

    Apparently there are still approvals and agreements to be signed over existing uses of the rail corridor and water use, the environmental license are already in place!

    For Queensland this is a good news story for coal and the billions of dollars it will earn fro the state in royalty taxes.

    My question is who is going to stop a project of this magnitude from going ahead that will totally increase the profile of the Labor Palaszczuk government, what can the Shorten Federal Opposition do on its mission for 45% Renewables for Australia.

    Energy and Climate change are at complete odds with each other both here in Australia and with most countries around the globe.

    I am only reporting the matter for the students to ponder over where does their future lie without money generated by the resources boom to support a modern lifestyle and opportunities within Australia!

    • max

      December 6, 2018 at 6:38 am

      Rob, you are only reporting the matter for the students to ponder over, namely ‘where does their future lie without money generated by the resources boom to support a modern lifestyle and opportunities within Australia?’

      Well, they have pondered, and they know there is no future for them if the governments of the world do not react and react quickly to climate change.

      The only thing that I ponder on, and what must be driving the young and informed to despair, is how troglodytes such as you, and those running the country, can continue to pursue an agenda that will see the world as we know it going into annihilation.

  71. Clive Stott

    December 5, 2018 at 11:04 pm

    Robin Halton … I am not sure who’s barrow you are pushing with your unsubstantiated comments such as “Realistic expectations for Australia would be around 25% Renewables over the next 3 years to maintain reliable and reasonably affordable electricity. Labor’s 40% target is unrealistic and will drive the price of less reliable electricity through the roof, and this must not be allowed to happen.”

    These climate kids are talking to you too, Robin.

    Get rid of your old wood burner .. and switch to clean renewables!

  72. Rob Halton

    December 5, 2018 at 5:54 am

    Keith, the question is how is Adani to be stopped in its tracks from developing its new mine in FNQ now that both Labor Premier Palaszczuk and Liberal’s Matt Canavan have both given support for the mine to go ahead (approvals are now in place) and Adani will be self financing the rail line from the port of Abbot Point near Bowen to the Galillee Basin, no public money will finance the development and nor it should
    Turnbull should have stood his ground right from the start instead of fiddling re Federal Infrastructural development funding for an Indian billionaire Paul Adani who would profit from coal exports for Christs sake!

    Coal exports are considered as a part of the nations economic prosperity, most politicians and businesses realise Australia is dependent on coal exports, how is a sudden change in unplanned economic direction to be orchestrated by government as both Coalition and State Labor are up to their necks in Adani!

    Who is suddenly going to step in and stop this important development leading up to the next Federal election, will it be the FNQ schoolies who are concerned about Climate Change to maintain a stand throughout the summer during school holidays by exposing themselves to the public forces that create a part of their families economic prosperity in the FNQ region!

    With a Federal election coming up the politics and speculation will be mind boggling!

  73. Rob Halton

    December 4, 2018 at 3:41 pm

    Australia hardly rates as far as emissions go, but unfortunately the students are wasting their time picking on we Australian citizens over coal-fired power stations!

    Australia has 45 coal-fired power stations. India has 450 and is increasing construction, and China has in the order of 1,000 and is still increasing.

    It’s not Australia which is among the main “culprits”. Leave us alone with a reasonable balance of fossil fuel fired generators and steadily increasing flow of Renewables without messing up a steady but effective transitioning period with non synchronous power generators and affecting the economy with unrealistic expectations driving what would be unreliable electricity prices through the roof.

    Realistic expectations for Australia would be around 25% Renewables over the next 3 years to maintain reliable and reasonably affordable electricity.

    Labor’s 40% target is unrealistic and will drive the price of less reliable electricity through the roof, and this must not be allowed to happen.

    • Keith Antonysen

      December 4, 2018 at 8:48 pm

      Rob … Per capita, Australians expend a lot of energy.

      The coal mines proposed in the Galilee Basin will significantly increase emissions. It doesn’t matter where that coal is used, the emissions will effect climate.

      Sir David Attenborough has stated that .. “Right now, we are facing a man-made disaster of global scale. Our greatest threat in thousands of years .. Climate Change.” A number of references are saying the same.

      Yep, it is far better if Earth becomes uninhabital so that fossil fuel billionaires might get richer in the meantime. We have been promised by Abbott that energy costs would come down, but it still hasn’t happened.

      So in a nutshell Sir David Attenborough is stating that should no action be taken to reduce greenhouse gases, civilisation will end.

      Young people are right in believing many adults couldn’t give a fig about their future.

    • max

      December 4, 2018 at 9:50 pm

      Rob, Australia is one of the biggest emitters of CO2 per capita in the world. Per capita Australia is 15 CO2 tonnes per person, India is .5 CO2 tonnes per person and China is 1.5 CO2 tonnes per person. We produce over 2 x the CO2 per person of India and China combined.

      These are the hard facts and it is a bit rich to expect these countries to reduce their standard of living to a point way below ours.

      The world is rapidly approaching the tipping point where the very survival of life on earth is at risk. Australia has the means to reduce its carbon footprint without reducing our standard of living, and we should be setting the example for the rest to follow.

      Instead, we have a buffoon dragging a lump of coal into parliament with a stupid look on his face claiming it won’t hurt you. Coal-fired power stations in Australia are uneconomical and the power they produce is dearer. The power companies have said so. Turnbull has come out and said so and that renewables are the future.

      Those kids are not wasting their time. They are showing more intelligence than any one in your party, and they are fighting for their future. It is a world wide movement that will kill your out-of-touch, knuckle-dragging Liberal party at the next election.

      • Mjf

        December 5, 2018 at 9:38 am

        So max, if you could explain please:

        Firstly you say “These are the hard facts and it is a bit rich to expect these countries to reduce their standard of living to a point way below ours”. These countries being India and China.

        Yet miraculously you say “Australia has the means to reduce its carbon footprint without reducing our standard of living.”

        Why then, if Australia has this ability, can’t India and China reduce their respective carbon footprints without reducing their standard of living ?

        • max

          December 5, 2018 at 1:43 pm

          MjF, You ask the question that I am sure you know the answer to. “Why then, if Australia has this ability, can’t India and China reduce their respective carbon footprints without reducing their standard of living ?”

          Australia’s coal-fired power stations are uneconomical and have in most cases reached their use-by date. Renewables are the preferred replacement by their owners. India and China have new modern coal-fired power stations and to replace them at the moment is not cost effective. New power stations are another story.

          China is at the forefront of the solar boom, adding some 53 gigawatts of capacity, equivalent to more than half the global total. The Asian giant’s total investment in renewables — at a record $126.6 billion — was also by far the highest in the world.
          In India the price of solar power has plummeted in recent months to levels rivaling that of coal, positioning the renewable source as a viable mainstream option in a country where 300 million people live without power.

          • Mjf

            December 6, 2018 at 10:46 am

            Well max, that is interesting. Clearly then, according to your response, China and India have the capacity to (and are) reducing their carbon footprints via renewables although you do not comment on whether their respective lifestyles are being impacted (which was the nub of my question).

            Therefore I conclude you have no full answer.

            I also don’t think comparing Australia’s per capita carbon emissions with those of non Western world country contributions is a level playing field. If as you say, India has 300 million unpowered residents, then they are hardly an equitable comparison to Australian residents in terms of CO2 emissions, are they ?

            What percentage of the population lives in Australia, or any other Western country without power ?

            And why have India and China gone ahead and built new coal fired power stations in recent times which now must be retained because it’s not cost effective to decommission them (according to you) ? Have their administrations not heard of climate change ?

            If these new modern coal fired generators exist in China and India, then feed them high grade, low ash, low emissions Australian Galilee Basin coal. Adani explains its Qld coal will replace dirtier, lower grade coal currently imported from Indonesia. Most likely also the same scenario for Chinese plants. At least let’s make some money while it lasts and Indo’s low quality higher emissions coal can stay in the ground. Perhaps that’s a good starting point.

            Does it really matter if Indonesia ultimately gets offended ? We’ll just chuck in more aid $’s

  74. Keith Antonysen

    December 4, 2018 at 8:30 am

    On Q & A last night, Marco, a 17 year old, asked the panel about its views on climate change.

    After he had heard responses from the panel, he was asked by the adjudicator Hamish, whether he had confidence in the answers. He stated “No”. He made the observation that politicians do not care about young people’s futures.

    Sir David Attenborough in a message to COP24 currently being held in Poland, stated that without action we will witness the end of civilisation: https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2018/12/04/david-attenborough-climate-change/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020181204

    The LNP states that we will meet the Paris promises, and stated so once again last night on Q & A. Yet official records from the Federal Government Agency state that emissions are going up. It’s a case of believe politicians, or believe professional people involved in measuring the emissions. The LNP was caught out releasing the emission figures some months after they had been made available, and during high media interest in other matters.

    Labor is promoting better emission goals, yet it is not pushing against coal mine developments in the Galilee Basin. It is but an accounting trick to suggest that the countries buying Australian coal need to factor in the emissions created through importing coal. The greenhouse emissions know nothing about accounting or a nations boundaries. Ultimately, Australia will be impacted by the emissions created in other countries from Australian coal.

    The LNP and Labor might get their 30 pieces of silver from donations provided by mining interests, but the biosphere suffers.

  75. Clive Stott

    December 3, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Good coverage. Thankyou, Rob Walls.
    It warms your heart to see the action these kids are taking.
    Keep it up.

  76. MjF

    December 3, 2018 at 7:21 pm

    What’s become of TGC these days ?
    This is right up his alley. I hope he hasn’t succumbed to online bullying.

  77. Rob Halton

    December 3, 2018 at 6:48 am

    Hawkins, this is exactly why we all should vote for Morrison, as he is prepared to curb immigration.

    Max, the Chinese would remain undeterred by Australia moving into the Pacific. It won’t affect us as a trading partner as they require our resources. Simple as that.

    • max

      December 3, 2018 at 9:12 am

      Rob, you are wrong on so many fronts it is hard to know where to start.

      What we export to China can be sourced in Africa, or a host of other countries, and China is setting up good relations with African countries, possibly because they don’t trust our belligerent present government. We are reliant on China for what we import and what we export, but China, on the other hand, can live without us. Can we live without them, that is the question.

      More than 62,000 people are living illegally in Australia, according to an Immigration Department report. These are people who have overstayed their visas. How many others come to Australia on fake passports and fake visas we will never know.

      Australia is a minor military power with a belligerent attitude that is taunting a major power. We should be concentrating on our own defence, and not engaging in America’s never-ending wars.

    • Keith Antonysen

      December 3, 2018 at 2:33 pm

      Rob, you clearly have not been watching the Morrison/LNP satire. Young people showed them up as being useless on climate change.

      There is huge antagonism between the right and extreme right wing factors of the LNP.
      There is a good chance that Dutton could be referred to the High Court.
      There are murmurings about others going to the cross bench .. Craig Kelly had been considering it, but apparently changed his mind. It is not clear whether Kelly will gain pre-selection. Turnbull had stepped in suggesting automatic pre-selection should not occur, as had been promoted by some Liberals. Turnbull has also recommended that the Federal election be held before the NSW one, as the Federal LNP is seen as damaging the NSW Liberal government’s chance of being elected.

      It appears that Julie Bishop is setting herself up to try for the Liberal Party leadership, and Abbott is still saying he wishes to become leader again.

      Right now Rob, the federal Liberal Party is a rabble.

  78. mike

    December 2, 2018 at 9:31 am

    It’s good that the kids have noticed that there is a huge discrepancy between what the Government is telling them in school and what the actual actions of the Government are. The only problem is that is just the tip of the iceberg!

    No doubt their teachers are still lying to them, as our teachers lied to us when we went to school.

    The kids need to take another day off school and watch this 3 part documentary of around 30 mins each:

    The WWI Conspiracy – Part One: To Start A War
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tclAbWvBt70

    The WWI Conspiracy – Part Two: The American Front
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5kWX7rYuU

    The WWI Conspiracy – Part Three: A New World Order
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzVd7XCTu28

    The documentaries are about how people were deceived into going to war, and the resultant consequences.

    Of course war is not exactly good for the environment either .. in many ways, and not just the obvious.

  79. Keith

    December 2, 2018 at 8:03 am

    The young people involved with the strike have been a real inspiration.

    While Scomo states that the students should have remained at school, students have displayed great organisational skills and creativity in the placards they produced.

    Part of the role of school is for young people to learn to socialise, and the strike certainly fulfilled that criteria. The students displayed better behaviour than our current political representatives.

  80. Chris

    December 2, 2018 at 6:16 am

    Vietnam protests started that way, slowly at first, and Morriscum, like his colleagues, then decried the commies etc etc etc and condemned them by setting the police on them.

    The students can look forward to the Potato doing the same, with fire hoses and batons, maybe. Look at France as they democratically bash protesters over the head with batons and hose them off the street. Every action has a reaction, both ways?

    But worst of all was the Liar from the Shire condemning those who we teach to THINK may have to listen to his own rhetoric in front of a mirror because no one with more than one brain cell will take notice of, or back this clown.

  81. john hawkins

    December 1, 2018 at 8:29 pm

    The unspoken elephant in the room is the rapidly escalating human population on planet earth.

    Populations were controlled in the past by pestilence, famine and war. We have learned to counter, and seemingly overcome these controls.

    It took from the start of time to approximately 1810 to put a billion people on the planet.

    We now do this every 10 years.

    This is unsustainable.

    Apart from the Chinese and their one child policy nobody has, is, or will mention or act in this absolutely critical matter.

    That is the real nub of the problem.

    • Mike

      December 2, 2018 at 6:25 pm

      Well actually, that’s not true. Lots of government leaders have implemented population control policies besides China.

      Hitler, Leopold II, Stalin, Tojo, Mussolini, Pol Pot etc …

      China is backing off from its one child policy after the government worked out it was not doing their country any good, eg increasing the aging population etc.

  82. Rob Halton

    December 1, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Max, its a lot more than the worry about Climate Change the more immediate issues are about preventing China from expanding south closer to Australia, hence the concern is if they become too powerful in our region they could block our sea lanes, that is a national security reality.
    I hope the young students understand that the rapidly changing world with global population running out of control if this pattern continues then dominant races with money for substantial loans to countries who will never be able to repay debt, combined with military might will take new regions for settlement and this is exactly the intention of the Chinese by securing their places outside their home country as a world super power. This is what is happening in the Pacific Islands region.

    Morrison has made the fist step to prevent this happening as a result of his recent APEC summit meeting in PNG organising a closer liaison with the US, NZ and PNG to set up a naval base on Manus Island and providing finance for PNG for electricity connections to improve living standards their population.

    By the way I didnt say that I support the Adani start up, i just make the TT panel aware of the development, I am leaving that one to the student population to decide for which they will do, politically by throwing Morrison out of government but they also have the Qld Labor government to deal with this is where the politics becomes very tricky handing us a Shorten government with Independents sharing power.

    Shorten himself is by far the worst choice fro PM but if that is what Australaia votes for then the consequences could be dire not long into their 4 year term. There will be another change of PM I bet.
    We are possibly facing the most important Federal election in modern times, look out these young students will need to be acquainted with much more than scare campaigns over Climate change to be sure of the rapidly changing world surrounding Australia.

    • max

      December 2, 2018 at 8:18 am

      Rob … this started off about the schools striking to protect their future from climate change and there have been only two people replying against the reality of climate change. Everything else is a side issue, but not the subject.

      China is our biggest trading partner 23.1 %, USA 9.6 %, Japan 9.1% South Korea 4.3 %. What do we export? Rocks and crops that China needs and we depend on? China needs to keep the sea lanes open to trade with us. If they ceased to trade with us our economy would collapse anyway.

      I think that instead of worrying about China closing the sea lane to China, you should be worrying about Morrison having a fallout with our biggest trading partner. China is the only country that has tried to control its population with the one-child policy, and was attacked for it.

      Bill Shorten may not have the charismatic leadership that you desire, but he is not coming across as a leader bereft of ideas that will appeal to the kids who see their future threatened.

    • Russell

      December 2, 2018 at 8:29 am

      So you would rather trash the whole planet and make it completely uninhabitable than be friends with other peoples?

      That’s exactly why your favourite politicians are getting smashed.

  83. max

    December 1, 2018 at 11:21 am

    Sorry Rob, but you are missing the whole point of why the schools are going on a campaign. It’s to protect their future. You may be coming to the end of your life cycle but the young are just starting out, and their future is looking bleak because of climate change.

    You may be right, climate change may be a load of crap, but if these kids are right and climate change is a fact, as worldwide catastrophes are indicating, then all of us should applaud their action and concerns.

    “The sea lanes have to be kept open to maintain supply or the nation stops!” Like so many of your comments, you fail to see the big picture. The nation will stop if Morrison continues to upset China. China can collapse our entire economy by refusing to trade with us. China is a rising power. Already it is possibly as strong as America. and it’s economy is stronger. In other words, America may not come to our aid.

    (“Coal boom looms after Adani start” GALILEE BASIN TO BE ENERGY POWERHOUSE. My guess is Queensland has been crying out for this project to go ahead for years as it generates jobs and a vast range of services for which cities like Townsville and Mackay have been crying out for years.)

    Rob, your stupidity, and that of others who are clamoring for the Galilee coal mines, is beyond comprehension.

    Simply put, the mines will deprive these kid of future jobs .. or any other future, because the released CO2 is on track to destroy their world and ours.

    • Realist

      December 1, 2018 at 4:44 pm

      Max, the IPCC has sanctioned India to continue to use coal for the next decade or more. It has been incorporated within the boundaries of global CO2 emissions within that time period.

      If Australia does not supply the coal, another country will do so to the detriment of our economy. Another way of looking at it is, by stopping coal mines now it is sabotaging future jobs as well.

      • Russell

        December 2, 2018 at 8:32 am

        Don’t you like fresh water and clean air?

        You can’t eat coal and you can’t drink oil.

        Future sustainable jobs are in solar, wind and wave power.

        Your mob will be left in the dark ages.

        • Realist

          December 3, 2018 at 9:14 pm

          “Your mob will be left in the dark ages.”

          Exactly right Russell, that would be after your mob makes power so expensive that no one will be able to afford it.

          • Russell

            December 4, 2018 at 8:11 am

            Those of us off-grid have zero power bills, unrealist. Those of us with grid-connected solar modules on our roofs also have zero to small power bills.

            While all you Neanderthals suffer power outages, those on solar and wind still have the lights and television on.

            Your unstable fossil-fueled grid power also chews up the guts of your electrical and electronic equipment way earlier than should be, while those on renewables have a perfectly steady 230V 50Hz pure sinewave supply which all these appliances are designed to operate on.

            You realistically have no idea about very much at all, do you?

            You NEVER answer any questions or facts put to you. Why? Because you don’t have any answers, nor the facts to back them.

            Care to debate the properties of electricity, and how it is produced and delivered?

  84. Keith Roberts

    December 1, 2018 at 9:50 am

    Why do the kids have to wake us up? Well done!

    If the Pollies’ aircraft to Canberra was deemed faulty by 97% of the engineers they would say “Lets fix it before we fly”. However, all we hear from the Liberals is “Open more coal mines in Queensland!”

    Our coal is cleaner they say, but no coal and more renewables would be a better idea.

    Climate change is occurring in front of us. I have maintained records over 40 years of snowfalls on Mt Wellington, and snowfalls and drift life are all declining.

  85. Ted Mead

    December 1, 2018 at 12:18 am

    Halton, it’s a simple no-brainer equation. Environmental collapse = economic collapse!

    There is not much point just prattling on about border security and oil supplies. Nobody is going to invade a country that is economically depleted .. as Australia’s rural areas will be when climate change kicks in big time.

    Do us all a favour Robin, before you finally push up daisies, and that is please donate your cerebrum to the field of science because in the foreseeable future somebody will want to comprehensively study your grey matter to try and understand why blinkered conservatives like yourself had thinking matter that was way out of kilter to the rational logic of ongoing human survival.

    That thesis will be bigger than Ben Hur!

    • Realist

      December 1, 2018 at 1:10 pm

      Wow, nothing like a good dose of ad hominem eh, Ted?

      There is absolutely no evidence that the earth’s atmospheric increase of CO2 from 0.03% to 0.04% is going to be dangerous. Even the IPCC says there is a range of possible outcomes from harmless to catastrophic, and admit the top of the range is very unlikely.

      Quite frankly the use of school students for an alarmist indoctrinated opinion from teachers speaks heaps of the failure of an educational system which is supposed to be impartial.

      • max

        December 1, 2018 at 5:14 pm

        Realist you may call yourself .. but a realist you are not. These kids are better informed than you obviously are, and they are trying to wake our government up. The government is asleep at the wheel.

        The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Report 2018 reveals irreversible climate change patterns and the planet earth has reached a threshold in human history.

        The World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) has released a provisional Statement on the State of the Climate in 2018, and the picture it paints is all too familiar: temperature records were shattered, sea ice shrank and extreme weather events devastated every continent in one of the hottest years on record.

        • Realist

          December 1, 2018 at 7:30 pm

          “Report 2018 reveals irreversible climate change patterns and the planet earth has reached a threshold in human history.” Yeah, yeah .. right, Max. And which number tipping point would this one be? We’ve heard it all before. None of the doom and gloom predictions have yet come to light.

          • Russell

            December 2, 2018 at 8:37 am

            Really? Then explain the unprecedented bushfires followed immediately by record floods and vice versa.

            Explain why the sea level is rising.

            Explain why much of Australia and Tasmania are in severe drought in a non el nino phase.

            Explain why the poles are melting.

            Explain why fruit trees are blooming months early.

            These are not predictions .. they are provable and measurable CURRENT reality!

          • Keith

            December 2, 2018 at 9:43 am

            Realist … just after the IPCC Report, a Report was provided by the US which relied on a number of US Agencies and thousands of references underpinning the IPCC Report. The Report was written by government scientists and those working privately.

            Permafrost thawing provides a major tipping point as already displayed by the greening of tundra areas, development of lakes and marshes, exploding pingos, devastation to infra-structure, islands off Russia eroding, and “drunken trees”, the concern being the amount of organic matter stored in permafrost areas breaking down into greenhouse gases.

            Arctic ice is melting. There has been a loss of multi-year ice in the Arctic. Multi-year ice has the strength of steel. Thirty years ago ice breakers were not able to travel on the Arctic Ocean. It is now possible for ships designed to cut through just over two metres of ice to traverse sections of the Arctic Ocean. The Arctic Ocean has an influence on climate, but not on sea level rise. The Arctic Ocean could very well be ice free in ten years or so. It is certainly melting much faster than expected. Once the Arctic reaches a ice free state it will take up more warmth.

            Vegetation creates about half of our oxygen, the other half being created in Oceans. Already scientists have shown how oxygen has lessened in Oceans. Dead spots in Oceans are being created, eg the Gulf of Mexico. Deforestation is happening.

            Already extreme weather conditions are having an impact in a number of ways. Try and understand what is happening in relation to the water cycle .. rain bombs.

            Yesterday I came across an article in the Daily Telegraph about the dangers of climate change .. a most unlikely source of such revelations.

            In relation to permafrost thawing and the state of the Arctic Ocean, I have provided examples of what is happening. I have yet to see those points being debunked.

            Young people are being taught science in schools, and they clearly understand science better than a number of adults.

      • Wining Pom

        December 1, 2018 at 5:37 pm

        Realist, so you’re a believer of Matt Ridley? You dismiss 97% of scientists but believe a climate change denier who ‘is the owner of land in the north east of England on which the Shotton Surface coal mine operates, and receives payments for the mine.’ He loves fracking, too.

        And I would say that our education system is working just fine. School kids understand science. And good on them. After all, it’s their future.

        But let’s say that you’re right and it’s all a waste of money. What will happen? Will it cost as much as the Second World War? Obviously not, as that cost everything .. and we were OK 20 years afterwards. And what if you’re wrong? Well, apart from no economy, there will be no community .. nothing.

        So, go for it kids. Show we adults how to be sensible.

        • Realist

          December 1, 2018 at 7:48 pm

          “You dismiss 97% of scientists but believe a climate change denier.” Well, actually the 97% thingy is not what you think.

          When asked if man is having some effect on the climate, the overall response of course would mostly yes. And that is what happened. If the question was asked if we were having a catastrophic effect, well I’m sure the answer would be different, and by the way, many scientists are questioning the catastrophic bit.

          And what IF I am wrong? Well, that’s the multi trillion dollar question isn’t it? Because that’s what it is costing society now on something that has not been proven. There’s more to global climate than an experiment in a glass jar, because that’s how the big CO2 scare came about in the first place.

          • Wining Pom

            December 2, 2018 at 9:11 am

            Realist, you’re right.

            So just keep on believing, and tell ScoMo and his true believers that the rest of the world is mad, and that next May will be fine.

  86. Rob Halton

    November 30, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    I have more news for the protesting students, in case they have not read the news, The Australian newspaper headlines today Nov 30th
    “Coal boom looms after Adani start” GALILEE BASIN TO BE ENERGY POWERHOUSE.

    All I am doing is passing on the news just in case the students missing school and too busy texting each other are not aware about the Adani startup.

    My guess is Queensland has been crying out for this project to go ahead for years as it generates jobs and a vast range of services for which cities like Townsville and Mackay has been crying out for years.

    Your future is in other hands!

    • Chris

      December 2, 2018 at 6:06 am

      The Australian as a source .. come on be honest!

      When has the Newscorpse and his rags ever written anything in Australia’s interest, but rather in the interests of those who, like you I suspect, back that 5% who believe that crap to expand their wallets and transfer wealth to themselves.

      It was interesting to see a farmer on the East Coast reporting that rainfall on his farm for the last twenty years has been in steady decline, but there again the stripping and raping of forests over that period to manufacture the toilet paper via Triabunna can be proved that rainfall is decreased with deforestation.

      I would say be Realistic, but that would seem to be ridiculous too.

  87. Rob Halton

    November 30, 2018 at 3:44 pm

    Mead, all of these young students need to step up to the global issues affecting Australia, the nation having only 3 weeks oil supply at any one times, the sea lanes have to be kept open to maintain supply or the nation stops!

    What Matt Canavan is referring to is we need to find alternative supplies here in Australia other than dependence on imports of oil as China closes in on economies around the world with its own economic and military might.

    The environmental movement wont solve our problems, that is total miscarriage of direction, theri ability to multi task in education in fields such as all of the sciences, technology and national defence capability will be necessary and place Australia in good stead to maintain a respectful position in SE Asia.

    There will be no soft approach to the environmental movement the nation will need to maintain a reasonable mix of RELIABLE electicity supply some of which will require modern coal fired generation to maintain metallurgical industries, processing and manufacturing as well as ample for domestic use.

    Absolute rubbish about talk of 45% renewables by 2030 by Labor more like 30% if we are lucky.

    We are yet to see all of the problems of running a modern democracy occur within Australia if youth continues to be influenced by the environmental movement to protest over climate change!

    Forthcoming there will be no dole, everybody will have to accept useful work and pull their weight in order to maintain our freedoms that was hard earned during WWII, hence our alliance with the US will likely be our savior again.

    Politics will need to harden up to reflect economics and national security over climate issues, that is a fact!
    The environmental movement will be trampled on if they are silly enough to compromise our economy and lifestyle.

    • MjF

      December 1, 2018 at 9:08 am

      Rob Halton … I am inclined to agree with Ted Mead on this one. Did you actually have any thoughts re the fun and games by tomorrow’s leaders on Parliament House lawns ?

      I do. I like the “less activism my ass” sign. Is that a true indicator of today’s literacy levels ?

      And I can’t help but wonder how the timing of this charade, orchestrated by teachers, is going to help the current pay dispute with government via the AEU.

      Kinda like shooting oneself in the foot, I think.

      Morrison and Trump look to be very G20 buddy buddy ATM. Did you notice ?

      • Simon Warriner

        December 1, 2018 at 12:42 pm

        Yeah, but, it would not matter who the US leaders was, our appointed leader would suck like there was no tomorrow. They would not be appointed otherwise.

        Meanwhile, our most important contact at the summit gets a brief “Hi”. No military without an income, and guess who is providing us with that.

        A little less suckholing, and a lot more smart diplomacy along the lines of well armed neutrality, would serve our national interest better.

        Good to see the kids getting engaged though. It is easier to point out the flaws of party politics when they are actually looking for a party to engage with.

  88. Wining Pom

    November 30, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Tony Abbott said that the adults were back in charge .. and look where that got us.

    I would feel safer in schoolkids’ hands. They can think about the future rather than the next election.

  89. Ted Mead

    November 30, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    More Rob Halton off-topic conservative twaddle about economics and security over global environmental issues.

    Robin, I have no doubt that you would support Matt Canavan’s condescending view of our progressive youth when he stated “The best thing you’ll learn about going to a protest is how to join the dole queue. Because that’s what your future life will look like, up in a line asking for a handout, not actually taking charge for your life and getting a real job.”

    And furthermore he wants children in school learning about how to build mines, do geology and how to drill for oil and gas “which is one of the most remarkable science exploits in the world”.

    Most of Australia’s great progressive activists have probably never been on the dole!

    Without activism we would all be living in even darker times that we currently do!

  90. Annie

    November 30, 2018 at 10:19 am

    Dear Students and young people …

    I appreciated your efforts and the art work. Well done! I loved the energy and the music. How did it feel knowing that you can organise for making a change?

    For our shared future please feel empowered to resist being manipulated by two or three word slogans such as ‘suicide or survival’. You deserve to have a life.

    You matter as individuals, and as young people, and also as part of the world for all people, planet and ecosystems.

    People of all ages matter and can help one another and the planet.

    I really do hope that more countries will get with the strength of shared solutions via the United Nations sustainable development goals that provide a compass and navigation aid for a shared sane future. The goals are great and most countries have already signed up to them.

    Everyone can have fun on the way, and also feel safe with a shared compass and lighthouse.

  91. Geoff Holloway

    November 30, 2018 at 9:32 am

    As others have noted, these young people are an inspiration!

    Great photos, Rob Wall!

  92. Rob Halton

    November 30, 2018 at 8:35 am

    Maintaining the nation’s sovereignty will be one of the biggest challenges facing the next generation coupled with stable and sustainable populations throughout the more habitable regions of the nation.

    With the belief that it is actually climate change occurring on a global scale there should be an interest in obtaining better educational outcomes among the next generation, they will need to be very adaptable to global changes both politically, economically and militarily as it is becoming more obvious over population pressures and excessive demand for trade in resources is globally unstoppable!

    Business corporations will need to be controlled and our governments will have to adapt to a new world order that limit migration numbers, reconsider foreign investment especially where it involves massive land clearing programs and there will be more emphasis on smart and practical application technology through the entire spectrum of living from now into the future.

    The other question is wages growth coupled with modern lifestyle luxuries for which is becoming an obsession with many younger households living beyond their means. The Jet ski idiocy and luxury 4×4 vehicle and fully automated gadgetry need to be brought into perspective.

    They will have to thank Mr Morrison for is immediate initiative to cooperate with the US, PNG and NZ to protect our ease of movement for sea lanes withing the Pacific region as the excessively over populated nation of China advances onwards for their Belt and Road global take over of trade followed by alienation of other failing regions of the globe.

    Preserving our sovereignty within Australia and maintaining an ever watchful eye on our neighbors to our north whilst maintaining a reasonable lifestyle and sensible use of resources will be the main priority.

    Mark my wise words maintaining Australia’s sovereignity alone will be a major task keeping unwanted strangers off our shores!

  93. elk

    November 30, 2018 at 8:34 am

    I am so proud of all the students who attended the School Strike for Climate Action on Parliament Lawns in Hobart.

    Thank you, and let us hope that those in government will listen to your concerns for the future of our planet.

    Well Done!

  94. Ted Mead

    November 29, 2018 at 7:00 pm

    Inspiring stuff!

    These kids are the planet’s only hope, and all prominent leaders in every field of society and politics should take note, listen and watch.

    Most of the present generation is a lost cause. We need a new era of thinking.

    I’ve been waiting a long time for a youthful revolution against the insular ideology that the mainstream political parties espouse. Whilst I’m not an advocate for the current electoral representative system, I see great hope knowing that these kids will soon be able to vote the dead wood out!

    Congratulations to those behind this movement!

  95. Peter Black

    November 29, 2018 at 6:59 pm

    The students may be humanity’s hope for Climate Change .. by shaming the corrupted politicians who refuse to take meaningful action.

    One outing will not change the politicians though, students. It will take many large protests leading into next year’s election.

    Students, you are beautiful .. each and every one of one you who stood up.

    It is your future world which is being trashed by the corrupt, the greedy, the uncaring, the apathetic, the stupid and the lazy.

    You need to continue, and don’t take NO for an answer.

    We adults have failed you, and it’s your future.

  96. Rom

    November 29, 2018 at 6:07 pm

    You go for it, kids! An awful lot of your parents started the environmental movement .. and we are incredibly proud of you.

    It’s your world now, and you have a right to live on a planet that is worth living on.

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