Tasmanian Times

Cartoons

The Twelfth Commandment …

*Satire: Leunig, http://www.leunig.com.au/ used with permission …

Without question the world’s affairs, its social structures, and our natural environment are in serious chaos.

Over-population, dwindling life-supporting resources, religious fanatical warfare, and prolific greed are some of the main contributors to this dire scenario. Yet there seems no operative doctrine to convey and guide humankind that there is something inherently wrong with our insular and corrupted thinking!

If the Ten Commandments were designed as a blueprint to live by then it has failed us in so many aspects. We have reached a crisis scenario, and to avoid a social and environmental disintegration we desperately require a collective philosophical and ethical rethink!

Unfortunately an Eleventh Commandment has already been flagged in more recent times, which does however connect with our contemporary ethics. – ‘ Though shalt not get caught’

Seriously though, the entire human race is in dire need for a universal Twelfth Commandment such as – ‘Though shalt not defile the earth and all life upon it’

This dictum placed above any belief system seems the only hope for any neo-humanistic future.

In 1980 Tasmania’s Democrat Senator Norm Sanders wrote a chapter for a conservation text about a hypothetical commandment that would guide living-earth principles in-line with a prosperous and healthy future for humankind. This of course related to the protection of our natural environment, which we all know underpins the future of our very existence.

Here is a condensed extract from Norm’s text. – ‘Respect Thy Earth’

Humans haven’t always been so oblivious to their life-support system. If our distant ancestors had been out of touch with reality as we are, we wouldn’t be here today. We aren’t doing a good job for our children. The support system is crumbling under the weight of the runaway technology, which is constantly creating new problems when it should be repairing past mistakes.

Technology in the form of the industrial revolution was what finally shredded the ancient truths of existence. The technology, which allows us to live temporarily beyond our environmental means was soon exported all over the world in the names of God, country and commerce. The ideological friction was so great that war was inevitable between the encroaching Europeans and any native inhabitants with the weapons to resist.

The American Indians had long lived in knowledgeable harmony with their environment and were appalled at what white men were doing to the land.

Where did we go wrong? Why couldn’t we temper technology with common sense?

The Judeo-Christian ethic often gets the blame for our environmental disrespect, probably with justification. Most of the world’s successful technological societies profess to being Christian. Christians are officially encouraged by the Bible. Genesis reads “and God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish in the sea, and over the fowl in the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the Earth”

Good, solid exploitative stuff that. And didn’t the Lord burn a bush when he sent down the Ten Commandments to the wilderness-weary Moses?

The Ten Commandments themselves ignore relationships with the land and concentrate on relations between humans. Instead of living in close harmony with nature like the hunters of North America and Australia, Moses and his flock were farmers and city folk who feared and despised the wilderness.

However the Earth needed protection even in the biblical days. The Levites, the Gadites, the Reubenites, the Hamulites; all of them over-cut the forests and overgrazed the hillsides. Loss of trees eventually led to a more arid climate and greater hardship for the people.

The burgeoning of technology over the past two hundred years has thrown wild oscillations into the slow rhythm of natural balance. The accelerating changes on Earth became more and more obvious, but were usually ignored by the naturalists of the day who were more interested in exploring remote corners of the globe than in taking stock of the local civilised environment.

One exception was George Perkins Marsh, the unheralded father of environmental awareness.

Marsh was particularly concerned with the loss of forests around the world. Marsh, a determined world traveller, observer, and one-time US Ambassador to Italy, first published his magnificent book, The Earth as Modified by Human Action, in 1864.

A century before the Age of Ecology, Marsh wrote, “Man is everywhere a disturbing agent. Wherever he plants his foot, the harmonies of nature are turned to discords. The proportions and accommodations, which insured the stability of existing arrangements are overthrown. Indigenous vegetable and animal species are extirpated, and supplanted by others of foreign origin, spontaneously production is forbidden or restricted, and the face of the Earth is either laid bare or covered with a new and reluctant growth of vegetable forms and with alien tribes of animal life.

Marsh was particularly concerned with the loss of forests around the world.

Whilst Marsh was agonising over the impact of man on old world, settlers were making the same mistakes in places like North America and Australia.

The American Indians and the Australian Aborigines took care of their land because they knew it was all there was. The white man developed a tradition of using up the land and moving on. The waves of migrating Europeans altered the land wherever they touched, but nowhere was the impact as fatal as Australia.

Aborigines knew that nature and society are mutually dependent. They perform rites to ensure the fertility of the species, which they hunt and confirm the link between humans and the vital forces involved in nature. Land to them is something not to be owned, but part of history dating back to the Dreaming when the Earth was shaped. Specific places have both tribal and personal meaning and the land owns the people as much as the people own the land.

The reason that our own culture has lost its traditional wisdom is that our awareness has been dulled by the pushers who keep us hooked on all sorts of expensive distractions. Their cry is consume, rather than observe. Consciously or unconsciously, the materialism pushers are deathly afraid of the few remaining wilderness areas on Earth. People who venture into these areas come out changed: they think they see the new emperor has no clothes, they are, in short, aware.

Politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists join forces to stamp out wilderness and its radicalising influence. We are supposedly happy to swallow the line that life is getting better every day because of our increasing consumption of electricity and resources. To question that premise is to threaten the entire basis of the modern consumer society.

Modern leaders don’t lead, they merely tag along behind an exponential growth curve. Lack of enlightened leadership coupled with massive unguided technology is rapidly making the world uninhabitable for man.

Whether for its own sake or ours, the Earth needs protection.

Edward Abbey, a militant and articulate defender of the American west, once wrote in an optimistic moment,…”perhaps in the decades to come we can gradually force industrialism underground where it belongs, and restore to all our citizens of our nation their rightful heritage to breathable air, drinkable water, open space, family farm agriculture and a truly democratic political economy.

For Judeo-Christians and our hypocritically religious elders, thoughtful words won’t be enough. We need to be ordered around.

And so the twelfth commandment should read as Norm stated – “Respect thy Earth, and the creatures and the plants upon it, so that thy days and thy children’s days will be long and fruitful”.

The Aborigines, of course, knew it all along.

Further reading – A Time to Care – Tasmania’s Endangered Wilderness – Bell and Sanders 1980.

*Ted Mead was not raised with any religious beliefs beyond his own will to explore and appreciate the natural world around him from a very early age. Ted however was exposed to the follies of the Bible having child playmates from a strict Catholic family who attended church regularly, espoused and quoted the doctrine verse and chapter constantly, and never questioned the ideology of what was imposed upon them. Such practices always mystified Ted, who as a child, never understood the impacts of mind control until he became a mature adult when he began comprehending humankind and their detachment from nature. Since that revelation it has been nothing but frustration and disappointment to see how misguided religions have permeated across the globe and aided in the wanton destruction of the Earth’s exquisite natural wonders, often driven by the dogmatic Genesis message. – And of course insatiable human greed always followed and prevailed.

Author Credits: [show_post_categories parent="no" parentcategory="writers" show = "category" hyperlink="yes"]
68 Comments

68 Comments

  1. Annie

    May 29, 2018 at 9:20 pm

    Re … Common sense and survival, and the defence of secular values, Jack.

    I always carry a copy of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights with me, as it was designed by ordinary people from my grandparents’ generation, and also by civil society. Reflecting upon history and how to improve our shared future is valuable … Lest we forget.

    Yes. For Australia to stand for something at least implies defending the rights of children and their parents who have arrived here as refugees, and also for providing support within the community rather than locking people away, as well as contributing peace rather than militarism.

  2. Jack

    May 29, 2018 at 4:20 pm

    #66 … What wonderful thoughts Annie – that cut to an articulation of common sense and survival

    Because our current crop of spineless politicians stand for nothing, they have done deals with the agents of death, and the promoters of the religious dogmas, for their political advantage. They sit around tables with foreign interests and religious nuts who have deep pockets and bands of people with confused allegiances who will provide them with political leverage over what is in our constitution.

    There are those who are permitted to slaughter kids, and others who are devils if they do so. The double standard stinks.

    In the process they’ve negated to defend Australian secular values, and have as a result put all our communities at risk from sectarian division. They have begun to globalise our exposure to risks by taking money and giving a blessing to propagandists operating in Australia as a branch office.

    The arms trade is the canary in the coal mine.

    There should be no friendships struck with nations who kill children with their military, and none with those who use terror for a religious and political end. Australia must once again stand for something. The first thing is to offer the door to those who wish to defend the militarism of a foreign nation against the interests of our own children and secular society.

    Live in Australia by our secular rules. Practice your myths in private, and with respect, and celebrate your cultural and religious history, but fail to understand that this is a secular nation and it will be the unpleasant task of secular Australians to show you the door.

  3. Annie

    May 29, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Thankyou Ted, for providing a venue for discussion.

    I agree with Jack that it is best to defuse the Pandora’s box of ethnic religious insanity by defusing militarism. Negotiation is the only way. I will not comment on any conflict as I believe that solutions exist amongst the protagonists.

    Women in Black, for example, comprise a peace movement started by women on both sides of the conflict (mentioned in the above discussion) that is dedicated to a peaceful resolution. There has been too much suffering already.

    Our Government can do much better. Surely it is better to re-invest in smart environmental research and careful overseas aid that is earth, people, and women and child friendly, and overseas aid is a topic where ethics matter, too. I really do hope that the government realises its mistake in wanting to be amongst the top 10 arms exporters. It’s fine to have Defence build transportable civilian-friendly hospitals, however we cannot be sure where any exported weapons will end up.

    It would be much better to innovate with technology in ways that actually help people, cochlear implants for example.

    Our government needs to redefine its identity away from militarism.

    Please feel able to attend the Drum up Big for Peace event here in Hobart on September 21st in the Elizabeth St Mall. It is being promoted throughout Australia as an initiative of Tasmania’s Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom. Bring your drum or something similar. The intent of the action is to nudge the federal government into signing the new United Nations Treaty on Nuclear Disarmament.

    Yes, apply secular justice, human rights and the legacy of the enlightenment (26) via logic, compassion and international law.

    With Raworth’s economic system based upon survival and planetary justice (1) is it possible that the United Nations Sustainable development goals provide some hope? Their overarching principles include new goals for healthy oceans, climate protection, equity, healthy cities, good governance, women’s empowerment, and they include earlier goals of childhood literacy, people’s health care and sustainable livelihoods.

    Protection of our agricultural systems, water catchments and forests is really vital. It is wonderful that in Tasmania we actually have healthy honey bees, however if am not sure that the government’s goal to exponentially increase agricultural production ( including that for export) is sustainable.

    Of course I am no expert whatsoever on any of the above topics.

  4. Russell

    May 29, 2018 at 1:29 pm

    Re #63 … To try to claim some totally obscure link between a +40,000 year old Indigenous Australian race (only experiencing oppression within the last 240 years at the hands of Christians) and a 3,000 year old Jewish belief is ridiculous. You forget that the Jews ARE the oppressors, and there is no way that the oppressed Indigenous Australians would support such low-lifes.

    Not once have I heard anything from Indigenous Australians about having connections with Jews. This seems to be just another one of your Jewish fallacies to try to justify their false existence and their illegal and murderous thieving expansion.

    In fact, the ONLY infinitesimal Indigenous Australian link to any Old Testament derived belief system (so that excludes Christianity because it only came about with the New Testament and the liar Saul/Paul) was our own Tasmanian Aborigine Michael Mansell finding support from the Islamist state of Libya for a separate Indigenous nation within Australia, and also recognising Aboriginal Passports.

  5. Peter Bright

    May 29, 2018 at 1:39 am

    Leunig’s cartoon at the top of this article has Moses asking God “The ten commandments haven’t worked. What else have you got?” while all around him there’s bedlam on Earth.

    If I was God on this occasion, I’d ask Moses “Well Mose, has anybody actually tried them?”

  6. Lynne Newington

    May 28, 2018 at 8:29 pm

    Only a mother could love it …

  7. Russell

    May 28, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    Re #60 … “and I can very easily make you see why.”

    Make my day.

  8. Russell

    May 28, 2018 at 6:06 pm

    Re #59 … You’re looney tunes!

    Come on, tell us – did your ‘adopted brothers’ tell you of their “long standing bond within the Jewish community”?

    “What religious denomination were the abusers – who knows and not relevant.” Very relevant. Jewish or Christian?

    “they were babies too young to be brainwashed.” That’s EXACTLY the time when STOLEN babies ARE brainwashed, and then they wonder why everyone else treats them like they’ve got two heads at school!

    “I’m sure if they were totally displaced they would’ve benefited by the support of the Jews.” Just as they were in the Christian and State institutions?

    As for your Jewish propaganda link, since when was the First Fleet in the 1840s? Your Jewish first fleeters would be long dead by then.

    Them straws are getting thinner and wetter by the post, Lynne. Next you’ll be telling us the man on the moon is Jewish, and is made of Kosher cheese.

  9. Wining Pom

    May 28, 2018 at 6:00 pm

    #56 … ‘Keep clutching at them straws.’

    Russell, you are so wrong there – and I can very easily make you see why.

    It’s ‘those’ straws.

  10. Lynne Newington

    May 28, 2018 at 4:02 pm

    What religious denomination were the abusers – who knows and not relevant. Either way, they were babies too young to be brainwashed, unlike other poor unfortunates reared to the mantra ‘give me a child until they’re seven’.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-21/forced-removal-aboriginal-children-at-all-time-high/9277170

    I’m sure if they were totally displaced they would’ve benefited by the support of the Jews, as have others to this day, for their land rights and self respect. http://jewishhistoryaustralia.net/jha/Jews_and_Aborigines.htm

  11. Russell

    May 28, 2018 at 2:25 pm

    Re #55 … “I have two adopted brothers fathered/ravished by white Australian men”

    What religious denomination were the abusers, and did your ‘adopted brothers’ tell you of their “long standing bond within the Jewish community”?

  12. Lynne Newington

    May 28, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    I thought you would’ve moved your interest to the lead article on Palestine because you’d be on level ground there with no one to dispute you.

  13. Russell

    May 28, 2018 at 12:57 pm

    Re #55 …. So, you haven’t “lived in or visited an Aboriginal community, let alone as an accepted member of that community”, but you have experienced their abuse by your race.

    Keep clutching at them straws.

  14. Lynne Newington

    May 28, 2018 at 12:04 am

    ” …obviously neither of you have ever lived in or visited an Aboriginal community, let alone as an accepted member of that community.”

    Posted by Russell Langfield on 28/05/18 at 06:30 PM

    What would you know?

    I have two adopted brothers fathered/ravished by white Australian men, one mother a minor, both given the opportunity to know their roots .. which they have done.

    Move along.

  15. Russell

    May 27, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    Re #41 … “At the moment my thoughts are with the Sorry Day etc, and reminding those who are ignorant about the long standing bond within the Jewish community and our indigenous peoples.”

    What an absolute load of rubbish! But to think it could be topped by #43! .. “Wow Lynne, good articles. I had no idea about the closeness to the First Australian community, but it makes sense because of the similarities in oppression.”

    Geez, you two ought to get a room. Not only do neither of you know anything about living in Palestine under a the continuous threat of a murderous, land-thieving, terrorist regime, but obviously neither of you have ever lived in or visited an Aboriginal community, let alone as an accepted member of that community.

  16. Jack

    May 27, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    #52 … Thanks Lynne for providing the proof of my last post. #52 is my exhibit A.

    Once again Lynne conflates an historical connection of Jews in Australia that pre-dates Zionism, tacks on an indigenous person’s rightful concerns for Jewish persecution by Nazis in the 1930s (pre-Israel) and serves it all up as a political banquet that somehow justifies the current state project, and the military adventure and killing sprees, sponsored by Israel.

    I thought that the historically ridiculous conflation of the Light Horse at Beersheba with Israel, rather than Palestine, was historical revisionism at its very best .. but this takes the cake.

    This form of propaganda to support the policies of a foreign power has become so ordinary to its practitioners in Australia they they are unable to see why it is rather horrid and repellent to many of us. We are supposed to back off and simply let them get away with it.

    Let’s take a couple of bits from Lynne’s link to show how this works …

    “There is a sense of shared experiences between the Jewish community and Aborigines, epitomised by the pioneering legal work of the late Ron Castan QC and Jewish involvement in the key High Court land-rights cases of Mabo and Wik.”

    There may well be, and fair enough too, if people wish to claim this. That is their right. This is their experience. Fine. Not a problem in the world.

    But here it comes. The steel jawed trap of Zionist propaganda closes and the conflation of a foreign state’s politics with Jewish history in foreign nations gets owned by the Israeli political project like a hungry dog owns another’s bone. A new history via conflation and correlation is written as if no one will notice:

    “Australian Jews deeply conscious that the struggle of this century that ended their dis-empowerment of their people in the land they have dwelt for over 3,000 years, have worked zealously in overcoming the dispossession of the Aborigines from their homeland of 40,000 years. For both peoples, Herzl provides the vision, “If you will it, it is no dream”.

    So there you have it. Zionism and Indigenous aims are the same. This is the view of all Australian Jews apparently (even the Orthodox ones Lynne?). 40,000 years of habitation (closer to 60,000 actually Lynne) is the same as a 3,000 year old message from the real estate agent in the sky that gave Europeans moral authority to settle a state called Palestine. This is exactly the same, is it?

    In actuality the assumption of terra nullius used by colonial Australia and the ideology for the settlement state of Israel that sought to de-legitimise the people existing on the land and still does, are remarkably similar in intent and outcome. Indigenous Australians were the victims of the same ideology, but this has been spun up by turbo-charged propaganda. Its embarrassing Lynne – truly I cringe on your behalf.

    Anyone who can stomach the twisted revisionism offered above should try blue vein cheese on ice cream with a heavy port wine and lime cordial tonight.

    Keep digging Lynne, you’ll be in Tel Aviv before you know it.

    PS: Is the person who wrote this ‘Harvey A Cohen’ the computer scientist from La Trobe? Note: when one writes a history linking two peoples it is necessary to reference how it can be said that the other party (Indigenous Australians) agree with the terms that seem to me to have been composed unilaterally.

  17. Lynne Newington

    May 27, 2018 at 7:03 pm

    You didn’t even want to acknowledge our indigenious who signed up to fight in Israel and were never acknowledged until recent times.
    The Jewish community never forgot and were always up there fighting for their rights and are the least of all having to apologise to them even if it sticks in one’s craw as it appears to have done to you. http://jewishhistoryaustralia.net/jha/Jews_and_Aborigines.htm
    It may even be the first time you’ve been introduced to William Cooper…there are links to follow in the above.
    One good thing about this discourse, it’s given food for thought which is where I originally came in, thanks to Ted Mead and the need for a 12th Commandment.
    I’m sure he never dreamt it would take the road it has….

  18. Jack

    May 27, 2018 at 5:31 pm

    #48

    “Tell me Jack, who had to make a collective apology to our indigenous as human beings for deprivation of their culture, their environment and their land?”

    I shall replace a single word for you in the context of this discussion, feed your words back to you, then tell me please:

    “Tell me Jack, who had to make a collective apology to our Palestinians as human beings for deprivation of their culture, their environment and their land?”

    Can you spot the change Lynne? Let’s keep the context the same shall we, as you have touchingly suggested we might.

    If people want to play these games for the political purposes of a foreign country, anchoring their victimhood in identity politics and linking their unrelated political projects to the suffering of indigenous peoples, then they need to be called out for double standards.

    It would be better to know when to stop. But zealots have problems with that.

    You won’t get a complaint from me when it comes to an accurate historical assessment of what almost destroyed Australian indigenous culture. That’s obvious. But it is repulsive to use it (or the Holocaust) as a political tool to promote another state’s military agenda where it still actively kill displaced/stateless persons in a long running dispute about human and land rights – and keeps people in a concentration camp.

    And no (before WP chimes in), it is not all Israel’s fault. But by pushing such spun up propaganda you’re doing a bloody good job of convincing people that it is.

  19. Simon Warriner

    May 27, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    Re #49, Dare you agree? Only if gunning down some 50 unarmed protesters with sniper rifles meets the test of “responsible moral agency”.

    Otherwise you would simply be amplifying the dissonance I identified way back at the start of this thread.

  20. Lynne Newington

    May 27, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    Posted by Christopher Eastman-Nagle on 27/05/18 at 10:43 PM …

    “The only compensation that we may be able to produce will be some kind of rebuild of our now all but ruined social infrastructure as we move out of a period of production intensive capital procreation into a more balanced ‘wealth’ portfolio, where existential wealth and responsible adult moral agency counts for something …”

    Dare I agree?

  21. Lynne Newington

    May 27, 2018 at 4:56 am

    “The bonding of Jewish people on Sorry Day being spun up as a political project for Israel is breathtaking gall! It has no end. The amazing aspect is how stupid and ill informed Lynne must think everyone in Australia is – but perhaps she’s right in that respect.”

    Tell me Jack, who had to make a collective apology to our indigenous as human beings for deprivation of their culture, their environment and their land?

    https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/social-justice-report-1998-chapter-3-church-responses

    Ted Mead: If the Ten Commandments were designed as a blueprint to live by then it has failed us in so many aspects. My belief is that Sorry Day would certainly be in that category.

  22. Christopher Eastman-Nagle

    May 27, 2018 at 2:43 am

    Hand to mouth hunting and gathering among tiny micro populations delivered no surpluses that would encourage demographic/economic growth or struggles over the appropriation of surpluses or territories that would deliver them. But that did not mean that they were living some kind of romantic Garden-of-Eden dream, where everyone was a Rousseauian ‘Noble Savage’.

    Hunting and gathering was a tough and uncertain business where people aged quickly, died early and were plagued by inevitable periods of dearth, following periods of plenty.

    Traditional life was run along very strict traditional lines where there was absolutely no room for the kind of indulgent bourgeois individualism that now pertains.

    The primitive means of production meant enormous investment had to be expended to deliver even the smallest technological outcome. The hunt cost almost as much effort as the protein it procured.

    Life was always precarious and sometimes very hard.

    The tiny population of this island continent up until 1788 was all that a hunting and gathering economy would support.

    Anyone wanting to get all dewy eyed about the lifestyle of our traditional aboriginal brothers and sisters needs to be thinking of a continental population well under a million people.

    It is true that modern capitalist economy is a completely out-of-control growth paradigm that threatens to wipe out biological populations and possibly replace them with a non bio-formed synthetic ‘intelligentsia’.

    The only way to get out of a mass extinction is a dramatic drop in consumer production, a narrowing of product inventories and the pursuit of a deliberate population tapering, either by birth or death control.

    It is going to be tough, but still light years in advance anything aboriginal populations could have possible contemplated.

    The only compensation that we may be able to produce will be some kind of rebuild of our now all but ruined social infrastructure as we move out of a period of production intensive capital procreation into a more balanced ‘wealth’ portfolio, where existential wealth and responsible adult moral agency counts for something …

  23. Jack

    May 27, 2018 at 1:39 am

    #41 … “And then there’s Beersheba etc …”

    “I had no idea about the closeness to the First Australian community, but it makes sense because of the similarities in oppression.”

    Talk about laying it on with a trowel!

    The WWI Battle of Beersheba (pre Israel and when the land was called ‘Palestine’), and the bonding of Jewish people on Sorry Day being spun up as a political project for Israel, is breathtaking gall! It has no end. The amazing aspect is how stupid and ill informed Lynne must think everyone in Australia is – but perhaps she’s right in that respect.

    But what about the anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, anti-Semite that I caught red handed here criticising the state of Israel? I mean, I found his name and address, so brazen is he in his ranting. I can find lots of others of his ilk too, and serve them up. How can you move on Lynne, when I’ve handed you a live one on the hook? Some of the comments on Israel are, well, very interesting. He suggests that Israel engages in propaganda and attempts to press gang Jewish citizens of other nations to support its political agenda against the interests of foreign nationals. He suggest that they recruit the political power of Jews in foreign nations to lobby for Israel and scare politicians. This, he believes, is dangerous to Jewish communities.

    So rip him apart Lynne and WP. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro must be stopped!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4SyFme7e5g

    #44 … Why Peter, what are you afraid of? Should the TT editor make sure that the propaganda from China or the Hobart Cable Car is never challenged as well? You are right about the direction this has taken, but with respect, I suggest that once propaganda gets trotted out to divert the context of an article it deserves to be de-constructed.

  24. Lynne Newington

    May 27, 2018 at 1:20 am

    *Seriously though, the entire human race is in dire need for a universal Twelfth Commandment such as ‘Though shalt not defile the earth and all life upon it.’

    Defilement of the earth is a carry over of defilement of all life .. as in human life made in God’s image etc. etc.

    I think that well in conjunction with Ted Meade’s article and Ten Commandments just expanded.

    Sorry you didn’t see the connections.

  25. Peter Henning

    May 27, 2018 at 12:19 am

    Perhaps the most interesting thing about this thread is that most of the comments have little or no connection with what Ted Mead wrote about in the first place, and that the point of his references to the ‘ten commandments’, and his use of what Norm Sanders said back in 1980, has been subverted at the outset by Lynne Newington’s comment at #2, which then became the trigger for a discussion of entirely different matters which should have been cut by the TT moderator at source.

    So, can we at least get back to Mead’s brief article and what Norm Sanders said?

    That doesn’t require repeating it all. Just one example from Sanders, which Mead must be congratulated for reminding us, 38 years on, starts with the biblical reference from Genesis, to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish in the sea, and over the fowl in the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the Earth’.

    Sanders has never been alone in concluding that the use of Genesis for ‘good, solid exploitative stuff’, and that the focus of the ‘Ten Commandments themselves ignore relationships with the land and concentrate on relations between humans instead of living in close harmony with nature …’

    The point is clear.

  26. Wining Pom

    May 26, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    Wow Lynne, good articles. I had no idea about the closeness to the First Australian community, but it makes sense because of the similarities in oppression.

  27. Lynne Newington

    May 26, 2018 at 7:13 pm

    I’ve moved on, Jack.

    At the moment my thoughts are with the Sorry Day etc, and reminding those who are ignorant about the long standing bond within the Jewish community and our indigenous peoples.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-03/hand-in-hand-book-explores-jewish-and-aboriginal/419538

    http://www.ajds.org.au/indigenousjustice/

    And then there’s Beersheba etc …

  28. Jack

    May 26, 2018 at 4:54 pm

    Is this an anti-semite WP/Lynne? How would you play him with your straw man arguments? Do you reckon he is going to trot out the banking conspiracy argument as well?

    Go for your life, rip in to him:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4SyFme7e5g

  29. Wining Pom

    May 26, 2018 at 4:09 pm

    #38 … I’ve already moved on from arguing with Jack, and onto easier discussions with the Jovos who bang on my door, convincing them that the world wasn’t made in six days by the sky fairy.

    As far as bringing up the bank argument, well, I’ll admit some prankery there reminding you in the middle of the Royal Commission of previous discussions about banks and Jews. And I perfectly understand your reluctance to go down that path.

  30. Simon Warriner

    May 26, 2018 at 2:10 pm

    #37 … Regarding your “trying to be involved with everyone” … if that were the case perhaps the article might have mentioned the invites to members of other minority groups to share the obviously successful methodology that has been developed for garnering political power and influence. Nope, never happened. More to the point though, what their multi-party approach does is cover their bets in the event that one of the other parties needs to be convinced to support something they want, like, say, Australian troops fighting in Syria along side ISIS mercenaries and the Yanks. Watch what happens to Albanese and support for his criticism of Israel. Bill Shorten and others more closely connected will be telling him to drop it or they will drop him. That is how it works. It will fade quietly away down the memory hole.

    Hubris, excessive pride, before the fall.

    As for the last sentence, why? Certainly not because it is a straw man who has only been raised by you, without any mention of the matter by me, on this thread. You raise it only to divert attention from your inability to counter Jack’s argument. It is an admission of defeat. I suggest you accept this and move on.

  31. Wining Pom

    May 26, 2018 at 2:31 am

    #36 … ‘outing their own antics’ Oh, I get it. They’re that stupid they are telling the world how they are trying to influence everyone.

    Could be they are saying how they are trying to be involved with everyone.

    And um, Simon, a comment on the really bad Jewish bankers taking over the world, but getting outplayed by we Aussies, would be nice.

  32. Simon Warriner

    May 25, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    And right on queue, along comes Bernard Keane at Crikey supporting Jack’s observation about the hypocrisy of Australia’s attitude to foreign interference in our politics.

    https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/05/21/turnbulls-protection-of-israel-the-exemplar-of-foreign-influence/

    Between Jewishnews outing their own antics here: https://www.jewishnews.net.au/transmission-continuity-and-unparalleled-access/75365 regarding political lobbying and influence seeking, and their water carriers tripping over their own feet as per the above, Jack and I hardly need to bother. Self defeating hubris does most of the damage.

  33. Wining Pom

    May 25, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    #34, etc. etc.

  34. Jack

    May 25, 2018 at 5:34 pm

    #33 … “Elie Weisel had a great mind … and no doubt Jack just thinks that he wants to wipe out Palestinians, and Simon thinks he’s planning to rob everyone by banking methodology.”

    And has Jack ever implied this? No. Did WP just make it up? Yes.

    On it goes. What you see in #33 is more classic victimhood narrative coupled with propaganda 101.

    The basis of the narrative is the “the entire world is against Israel” and that critics of mass killing are somehow bigots associated with classic examples of anti-Semitism that go back to the middle ages. People who are critical of a military machine killing with a ratio of 25:1 in this conflict are irrational, unreasonable and against all Jews.

    Really?

    So we are not to tolerate China interfering in Australian domestic and foreign policy, but we will sit back and apologise to those who lobby for Israel – a foreign power.

    Enough. Not me any longer. Call me what you like, but I will not have the Israeli lobby infiltrate Australian policy and society, as indeed it has done very well so far. I’ll be speaking up and asking questions. For instance, why do we let dual Australian-Israeli citizens do national service in Israel, occupy Palestine – and still keep their Australian citizenship?

    Enough – one rule for everyone. The hypocrisy disgusts me.

    Back off, Israeli lobby in Australia. When the tide turns against you (as it is very quickly doing) you are going to look pretty foolish screaming ‘anti-Semitism’. By that stage 90% of Aussies will be anti-Semites for wanting to see the end of mass slaughter and the upholding of human rights.

  35. Wining Pom

    May 25, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Yes Lynne, Elie Weisel had a great mind, but his apprenticeship is unthinkable.

    And no doubt Jack just thinks that he wants to wipe out Palestinians, and Simon thinks he’s planning to rob everyone by banking methodology.

    But I think they have a plan, in fact they’re probably undercover Mossad agents. When you see that about 50% of UN sanctions or criticisms are against Israel, that’s 50% of all the bad stuff done in the world is done by Israel, and the Jews are trying to take over the world and they do bad banking stuff, well, it goes without saying that any real criticism is just laughed off.

    Perhaps the Jews own the Australian banks. And Terra nullius? Must have been Israelis on Cook’s ship. Wait, there was no Israel then. How is that explained then? Bad stuff happened before Israel existed.

    Mazel tov and l’chaim

  36. Lynne Newington

    May 25, 2018 at 11:57 am

    #30 … “It’s not an argument Lynne, it’s a passing shower. But I have an umbrella, so I’m still dry.” Good for you as in Mazel tov.

    As in “Tell me. Who was wrong, Catholics or Protestants?” On reflection I should have thought of the response of Elie Weisel who was invited as guest speaker at a gathering, when at question time a Catholic nun asked why he/Jews always referred to the Holocaust. His automatic reply was ‘Jesus was crucified thousands of years ago. and you ask why I remember the Holocaust?’

    For me, an immemorial image. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-10/elie-wiesel-in-his-own-words/7583290

  37. Simon Warriner

    May 25, 2018 at 8:43 am

    Well played, Jack.

  38. Wining Pom

    May 25, 2018 at 2:30 am

    It’s not an argument Lynne, it’s a passing shower. But I have an umbrella, so I’m still dry.

  39. Lynne Newington

    May 25, 2018 at 12:03 am

    “Tell me. Who was wrong, Catholics or Protestants?”

    Posted by Wining Pom on 25/05/18 at 05:13 PM

    It’s no means a defeat you haven’t even lost the argument. Mazel tov.

    Ask the Rabbi, is the old saying …

  40. Jack

    May 24, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    #27 … “I could never convince you that your bias outweighs your logic ,, but to you it’s all Israel’s fault.”

    I’ll leave it to other TT readers to decide. Not only have I never said that it is ‘all Israel’s fault’ but I have not been led to a single thing that I have written that is illogical.

    However what we do see is the tired tactic of name calling, victimhood and PC rhetoric of hurt feelings, eg you are illogical – but I shall not tell you why. You are ‘anti-Israel’ – how terrible tut, tut. My feeling are hurt – how dare you. You don’t understand – I know an Arab, so there. I know someone who went through the Holocaust – top that. It’s all to do with anti-Semitism – allow me to virtue signal.

    It’s all there in spades. It’s sad, boring and trite. Worst of all it distracts from the suffering and torment of children and perpetuates the cycles of violence, killing and hate on all sides. But the power of this sort of argument is evaporating. Most have had enough of it.

    “Tell me. Who was wrong, Catholics or Protestants?”

    Why bother with the labels? The answer is simple WP – it’s all those bigots who kill in the name of a myth, a symbol or a holy promise related by a goat herder 3,500 years back or a bloke who rode a winged horse, and those who defend them because they don’t have the balls to stand up for secular values.

    I’m not keeping score though – you are.

  41. Wining Pom

    May 24, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    Jack, I’ll admit defeat on that. I could never convince you that your bias outweighs your logic.

    To me there are looneys on both sides, but to you it’s all Israel’s fault.

    Tell me. Who was wrong, Catholics or Protestants?

  42. Jack

    May 24, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    #25 … Exactly. And that mumbo-jumbo is supposed to take the place of logic, compassion, the law and human rights, because this is the rationale adopted by the later day political movement of Zionism. It is now an intractable religio-political conflict that has seen an insane reaction in the form of militant Islamism, and the more killing that happens the more we are all put at risk.

    The only way to stop it is to apply secular justice, human rights and the legacy of The Enlightenment. No secular nation concerned with human rights should give the time of day, or a red cent, to a nation that kills and occupies land because their god told them to.

    I don’t care about your imaginary man in the sky, but I do care about the dead children that myth, money and modern munitions make.

  43. max

    May 24, 2018 at 7:28 pm

    Yes, God promised Abraham land that belonged to others.

    The reasons for this transfer of land include the need to punish the Canaanites’ sin and the need for God’s chosen people to have a land of their own, eventually to become the birthplace of the Messiah.

    God said kill the the sinful Canaanites and the land is yours. Nothing has changed and religion is still the creator of killing fields.

  44. Jack

    May 24, 2018 at 4:24 pm

    #23 … The good thing about logic and illogic is that they can be tested, qualified and quantified. I invite you to demonstrate where the illogic is in my argument.

    It’s easy to apply labels of “anti-Semitism’ , ‘one-sided’, and ‘illogic’ .. and then fail to demonstrate your argument – so go for your life. Show me how my arguments are illogical or wrong.

  45. Wining Pom

    May 24, 2018 at 2:35 am

    You’re as illogical with your thoughts on my religious beliefs as you are with peace loving Hamas.

    I am an atheist and they are terrorists.

    I’m surprised you don’t blame Syria on Israel.

  46. Jack

    May 24, 2018 at 1:33 am

    #20 … “Lawrence of Arabia dividing the Arab world?”

    No. the other way around WP. The other way around …

    “Your beliefs Jack, are so one sided, it’s funny.”

    Well, I’m not sure how you conclude that, given what I wrote. But don’t let that get in your way of playing the victimhood card. Most people can see that I am arguing against violence and the cycles of violence. And yes, Israel dishes out the most violence because it has the technological means to do so. Anyone looking at the body count can see that to be blindingly obvious. It is a ratio of about 25:1 (Palestinian:Israeli).

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-casualties-arab-israeli-conflict

    Both sides are insane. War is insane. Those who look for a religious answer are insane.

    People who have concern for ALL victims of war have to listen to PC and propaganda rubbish about Israel needing a free kick. It’s different is it? Why? You and Lynne sit on the sidelines cheering the war and going on with religious dogma and pulpit snake oil while people die. It amazes me that people of your ilk seem to have no concept of how hypocritical this is. Christians are you? Following the teachings of Jesus maybe, yet baying for blood and high explosives all the same? How does that work exactly – how do you guys manage to fit killing people in alongside a good old chat to Jesus at bedtime?

    “Blessed are the cheesemakers – and those who drop white phosphorus bombs on children in the Holy Land – for they shall sit at my side to carp and moan for all eternity about how everyone treated them so terribly.”

  47. Simon Warriner

    May 23, 2018 at 11:59 pm

    For those seduced by the argument that murder is a fair thing, and antidote:

    https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/05/propaganda-101-how-to-defend-a-massacre

  48. Wining Pom

    May 23, 2018 at 7:17 pm

    ‘It’s as likely as Israel going in to Palestine to look after the interests of the Palestinians.’

    Or the wounded in Syria getting Israeli medical help – but you probably don’t believe that Jack, as it’s Israel good.

    And I take it you’ve heard of Sunni and Shiite.

    Lawrence of Arabia dividing the Arab world? I thought he united it to fight against the Turkish Ottoman Empire so they could have independence.

    Your beliefs Jack, are so one sided, it’s funny.

  49. Lynne Newington

    May 23, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    Let’s make her a saint, Lynne. Start by writing letters to the Pope. Actually, I think Israel should run the Catholic Church and the Papal State.

    Israel wouldn’t take it even as a gift, although one or two influential Jews bestowed with papal knighthoods would, while believing it would improve relationships.

    Ten years after Nostra Aetate [Pope John 23rd’s outreach to the Jews asking for the church’s forgiveness] they were targeted again by the anti-Semitic Argentine dictatorship. Rome supported this pope. http://kantorcenter.tau.ac.il/sites/default/files/PP Nisman 111016.pdf

  50. Jack

    May 23, 2018 at 4:56 pm

    #17 … Next time I will point out when I am being sarcastic. Of course I don’t believe that. It’s as likely as Israel going in to Palestine to look after the interests of the Palestinians.

    WP … all peoples can unite if there is a lightning rod large enough. Israel plays on the division in the Arab world. They better hope that you are right. Lawrence of Arabia managed it once.

    But if the USA ever went into Iran while that nation is supported by Russia, then all bets are off. You are not dealing with rational concepts but people made insane by generations of conflict. War makes Shaun Micalleff’s scripts look rational.

  51. Wining Pom

    May 23, 2018 at 4:41 pm

    ‘…Iraq? We went in to look after their democratic rights and freedoms.’ Surely you don’t believe that!

    ‘If the Arab world unites…’ And you accuse me of being in cloud cuckoo land!

    Are you training for a script writing job on Shaun Micalleff’s ‘Mad as Hell’?

  52. Jack

    May 23, 2018 at 3:54 pm

    “But to be realistic, I wouldn’t mind being made aware of the ‘illogic of’ Israel taking over a territory and looking after the inhabitants, as opposed to Hamas taking over Gaza and killing those opposed to it.”

    Well, OK. Let’s apply that logic to Australian Indigenous people, shall we? Time for an intervention? What about Iraq? We went in to look after their democratic rights and freedoms – worked really well, didn’t it? And let’s take over New Guinea once more and look after the place.

    You don’t read much history do you, WP? Those in cloud cuckoo land probably like neocolonialism. It would work well, would it? Can you imagine the Palestinians welcoming their new rulers with open arms?

    “Golda Meir spoke truth a long time ago …”

    Lets make her a saint, Lynne. Start by writing letters to the Pope. Actually, I think Israel should run the Catholic Church and the Papal State. That’s an intervention I would like to see.

    In my view, Lynn and WP, all this is not going to end well for anyone. If the Arab world unites, and the march of the ultra right continues, and European values dilute and break down due to the rise of Islamism and PC politics – then Israel is toast. What you simplistically call “anti-Semitism” is a consequence of a complex interplay of Zionism, failing democracy, religion, and the loopy non-thinking left, and playing about with high explosives and military intervention that creates hate. At its heart is the insanity of killing and war, and the mental illnesses of Israel and Palestine.

    You guys trot out the rhetoric and ‘poor Israel’ stuff where each person is a barking mad anti-Semite without even understanding that Palestinians are Semites. People who are critical of Zionism are, in your book, anti-Semites – when the majority of ultra orthodox Jews are also against Zionism. Stop one, and ask.

    People like you (probably very good people at heart) wave your little fans to create the oxygen that feeds the fire. You think that religious mumbo-jumbo is the cure, when it’s actually the cause of all this. You think there is a rational solution – but there is not.

    In your terms you are doing the devil’s work – but you don’t even realise it. The devil is not Israel, but in the hearts of ethnocentric peoples whose political projects are driven by religious ideology and 3,000 year old myths. You guys are part of the problem and you don’t even realise it.

    The original Zionists were secular Jews. The religious Jews recruited by Zionism have been useful idiots to assist a political project who opened the Pandora’s Box of ethnic-religious claims that lit the fuse.

  53. Lynne Newington

    May 23, 2018 at 2:52 pm

    Golda Meir spoke truth a long time ago and nothing has changed. She said “When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate us, we will have peace.” — Posted by Wining Pom on 23/05/18 at 04:47 PM

    So she did .. a thought only a mother could express so adequately.

  54. Wining Pom

    May 23, 2018 at 3:21 am

    One truth you say Jack is ‘This is Life of Brian stuff.’

    The Holocaust is dismissed. A terrorist organisation. designated so by the country in which you reside, is a poor, suffering, peaceful, abused people. Wow, It’s a lot like religion. Belief.

    But to be realistic, I wouldn’t mind being made aware of the ‘illogic of’ Israel taking over a territory and looking after the inhabitants, as opposed to Hamas taking over Gaza and killing those opposed to it.

    I’m not expecting anything rational though. Israel bad, Gaza good.

    How about Israel bad, Gaza bad too?

  55. Jack

    May 23, 2018 at 1:56 am

    #10 … “No need for me to do anything. I have friends who are Holocaust survivors and know of others still escaping anti-Semitism.”

    What’s this got to do with the price of fish? About half the people who were killed in the Holocaust (at least) were not Jewish. Some 30 million Soviets/Russians died at the hands of the Nazi war machine yet defeated it. Note that last bit.

    So if I have Russian friends do I know more than you? Give me a break ..

    Go see some dead kids Lynn, and then report back to us. Get the smell of a kid’s guts into your system. It’ll be good for your eternal soul. Religious people love blood, guts and people nailed up etc.

    Why is it that we only hear about anti-Semitism when Palestinians are Semites? How bizarre that the people probably least responsible for the Holocaust were the Palestinians but they bear the cost of it. And people rattle on about anti-Semitism when the Semites are killing the Semites.

    This is Life of Brian stuff.

    “It seems Jack, that you think the Israelis are the only ones in the Middle East who cause problems. I have lived there and I have traveled through Gaza, but this was before the Israelis pulled out.”

    Really? I thought that I was saying that war creates insane people and insane people do not act rationally. Did I say this instead? No. Did you just make it up? Yes. Congratulations, you just qualified for a post with the IDF propaganda unit.

    “And where is your criticism of Egypt? They also have a border with Gaza.”

    Your geography is correct. but as far as I know, Egypt has not 1. Occupied Palestinian land of late 2. Built on Palestinian land 3. Used white phosphorus on Palestinian kids of late 4. Mounted an ultra-Egyptian program to buy up Palestinian land 5. Shot Palestinian using snipers 6. Has any unresolved UN resolutions 7. Sought to extinguish the link between Palestinians and their land 8. Had a program of fake archaeology to dig up relics dated back to a temple and an ark that no one in their right mind gives a toss about etc etc etc

    Apart from that there are remarkable similarities. Most Egyptians have one head, two arms and two legs just like Israelis. Plenty of Palestinian kids don’t.

    “I lived in the Sinai and have worked with Bedouins”

    Yep, you could have lived with Berbers in the Atlas mountains for all I care. Go and see some dead kids WP in Palestine then get back to us. It’s got nothing to do with the bloody Hare-Clarke voting system and everything to do with 3,000 year old ethnocentric insanity and the use of munitions. It has to do with killing, and insanity, where every bomb you drop and person you shoot makes it worse for the reasons I have tried to explain.

    “It is interesting that when the Israelis took over Sinai in 1967 the life expectancy of the Bedouins rose from 40 to 70 virtually overnight. This is not a well known fact, and was just a matter of clean water and medical infrastructure, and yet you think the Israelis are so evil.”

    Eh? This makes sense to you? This is your argument – really? I mean .. you can’t self edit the illogic of this?

    “What if those couple of thousand people, who arrived by the hundred, were 40,000 people on the beach in Devonport with Molotov Cocktails and throwing stones?”

    Then you and Lynn would begin to get a taste of what mass killing does to people. Finally you would have the ability to see a friend or two get killed on your doorstep. Then, and perhaps only then, will you ask “What got these people so angry and why are they insane, violent and lacking hope?”

  56. Lynne Newington

    May 22, 2018 at 10:48 pm

    What seems to be getting lost is there are many Palestinians who would be happy with deals presented over time and live peaceful lives. Unfortunately they’re scapegoats of the influence of infighting by their own leaders and political gains of outsiders.

    “Those living in Israel itself have far more rights and freedoms that Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza”. What is missing is the good news. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/11/israel-jews-arabs-palestinians-work-together-peace.

  57. Wining Pom

    May 22, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    It seems Jack, that you think the Israelis are the only ones in the Middle East who cause problems. I have lived there and I have traveled through Gaza, but this was before the Israelis pulled out.

    I lived in the Sinai and have worked with Bedouins. It puzzled me why it was given back to Egypt. I thought it should be a separate state run by the Bedouins who had been there 10,000 years. I was informed though, by a knowledgeable person, that there are ten tribes in the Sinai, and that if it were independent there would be tribal war. It is interesting that when the Israelis took over Sinai in 1967 the life expectancy of the Bedouins rose from 40 to 70 virtually overnight. This is not a well known fact, and was just a matter of clean water and medical infrastructure, and yet you think the Israelis are so evil.

    It’s true that the current right wing government is doing the wrong thing with settlements etc. (not Gaza) but the religious minority have a larger influence than pure numbers because of the Hare-Clarke voting system. I wonder where else in the world could a minority right wing party have influence over a democracy? Where in the world would a government spend billions of dollars to torture a couple of thousand people who tried to enter their country to work? What if those couple of thousand people, who arrived by the hundred, were 40,000 people on the beach in Devonport with Molotov Cocktails and throwing stones?

    And where is your criticism of Egypt? They also have a border with Gaza.

    Golda Meir spoke some truth a long time ago and nothing has changed. She said “When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate us, we will have peace.”

  58. Lynne Newington

    May 22, 2018 at 7:32 pm

    “You and Lynne should go and see some dead kids. Go to some place in the world and carry a dead kid, or one with a limb blown off, and have a nice chat to the parents and tell them to be reasonable about it all”

    No need for me to do anything. I have friends who are Holocaust survivors and know of others still escaping anti-Semitism.

    Forget the heading but for convenience I lead you back to a previous link: http://thehill.com/opinion/international/387788-why-does-the-media-continue-encouraging-hamas-violence

  59. Jack

    May 22, 2018 at 5:16 pm

    #7 … Have you been there? I have. It is a concentration camp WP. The best way to see if I am right is to visit, and I strongly encourage you to do so. If you don’t want to, then how about finding some Palestinians in Tasmania and sitting down for a chat? Make sure you talk to those who have lived in the territories – they who are part of the millions of refugees cast out due to ethnic cleansing.

    If any nation dropped white phosphorus on my neighbourhood or killed my kids I would dedicate my entire life to ensuring that they can’t ever do that to another child. It would send me mad with hate.

    What would you do WP? You’d use good old Christian forgiveness, hey? Oh well, would you say, and then go back to a crossword puzzle?

    The problem I see the most with this issue is the inability of Australians to imagine (empathise) what it is like to pull your son or daughter from ruins and see them as a piece of dust covered and cooked roadkill. People actually do this WP. It drives them mad. The people who do the killing are mad as well. We are mad for thinking that we can resolve this issue with detached pomposity, tribal ways and religious snake oil.

    You and Lynne should go and see some dead kids. Go to some place in the world and carry a dead kid, or one with a limb blown off, and have a nice chat to the parents and tell them to be reasonable about it all. But that experience will change everything you thought you knew about politics, and right and wrong. The military ideology of Israel is as insane as any other that applies killing technology to people. But you have to see it.

    People do these mad things (take their kids to a demonstration etc) because they are insane – you and Lynne don’t get it. They have been driven insane by war and suffering. If this happened in Tasmania you and Lynne would also become insane. Your problem is that you have no experience of what these people have suffered, and you believe they make rational decisions, and you apply irrational religious mumbo jumbo (which is how it all got going) to a pathology that is started by high explosives and high velocity ammunition.

    Go over there and take a look, and then forget about the utter crap reported in the newspapers. Go and see what generations of war, aided by western industry and financed by ultra-Zionism, does to actual people. Visit a hospital. You will never erase that from your memory – ever.

  60. Lynne Newington

    May 22, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    #5, #3 … “As has been pointed out by you and others, the Israelis are so bad that they murder children, so why would you take your children to a demonstration?” — Posted by Wining Pom on 22/05/18 at 10:39 PM

    http://thehill.com/opinion/international/387788-why-does-the-media-continue-encouraging-hamas-violence

  61. Wining Pom

    May 22, 2018 at 11:51 am

    Concentration camp #6? I thought it was a self governing Palestinian territory with two borders, Egypt and Israel.

  62. Jack

    May 22, 2018 at 4:41 am

    #5 Because they live in a concentration camp and don’t have much to loose? Just a guess Winning Pom.

    But maybe it’s because they are all a monolithically evil sprogs of the devil hell bent of preventing the return of the children of Israel to their true homeland as dictated by the real estate agent in the sky a few thousand years ago? I mean, it all depends on your appetite for BS stories, funny hats and self-serving narratives versus human rights I suppose.

  63. Wining Pom

    May 22, 2018 at 2:39 am

    #3 … As has been pointed out by you and others, the Israelis are so bad that they murder children, so why would you take your children to a demonstration?

  64. Lynne Newington

    May 21, 2018 at 11:42 pm

    I thought I had replied but apparently not. Don’t be too concerned about Lynne Newington.

    Whatever commandments or codes/laws, one is expected to use discernment. I don’t particularly like Greg Sheriden but his discourse on Q&A last night said it very well, but whether there was a political agenda behind the scene or not is another question.

    Being a flag waving conservative Catholic as his counterpart, Tony Abbott, all of a sudden, was agreeing that the capital of Israel, with all the protests and violence, should be in Jerusalem.

    If I were Jewish I certainly wouldn’t be too trusting, in fact I would be trusting at all.

    Leopards camouflage themselves to catch their prey …

  65. Simon Warriner

    May 21, 2018 at 12:13 am

    Lynne Newington appears confused. Here she lauds a set of laws championed by a “famous” Jewish Rabbi which includes this:

    “The value of human life cannot be measured. To destroy a single human life is to destroy the entire world – because, for that person, the world has ceased to exist. It follows that by sustaining a single human life, you are sustaining an entire universe.”

    Yet over on another thread she excuses the slaughter of some 50 protesting, unarmed Palestinians by soldiers of the Jewish state of Israel, under no physical threat from those they murdered.

    Perhaps Lynne might like to explain how she reconciles the glaring, obvious dissonance.

  66. Lynne Newington

    May 20, 2018 at 10:49 pm

    “If the Ten Commandments were designed as a blueprint to live by then it has failed us in so many aspects. We have reached a crisis scenario, and to avoid social and environmental disintegration we desperately require a collective philosophical and ethical rethink!”

    Hammurabi Laws/Codes and the Noahide Law written many centuries [long before the Catholic Church existed] had the social and environment recorded.

    https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/The-7-Noahide-Laws-Universal-Morality.htm

    Moses must have missed one.

  67. Mike Bolan

    May 20, 2018 at 1:41 pm

    You’re right Ted, however this is some hope out there.

    For where we went wrong, Jeremy Lent’s “Patterning Principle” is magnificent. What to do is well covered in Raworth’s “Doughnut Economics” in which she proposes an economic system that is focussed on survival and planetary justice rather than abstractions created by 19th century economists. Jeremy Rifkin’s work “The Third Industrial Revolution” is also worthwhile.

    If you’re not into books (?.. but of course this is Tasmania) then the Liology Institute is an excellent source.

You must be logged in to post a comment Login

Receive Our Weekly Tas Roundup

Copyright © Tasmanian Times. Site by Pixel Key

To Top