Bob Brown on the ETS

LATELINE

Now that’s simply a financial impost onto the rest of the business community, including small business, and onto householders at the expense, at their expense, to shelve the big polluters who have enormous reach into both the big parties here in Canberra at the expense of the Australian people.

Bob Brown talks about ETS
Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Broadcast: 04/05/2009, Reporter: Tony Jones

The leader of the Greens, Senator Bob Brown, discusses the Federal Government’s revised emissions trading scheme.

Transcript
TONY JONES: And now we’re joined by the leader of the Greens, Senator Bob Brown, who is also in our Canberra studio.

Bob Brown, thanks for being there.

BOB BROWN: Hello, Tony.

TONY JONES: You’ve just heard the Coalition’s position. They don’t believe there’s any chance for a global agreement on significant reductions. Now, if that’s the case, this whole debate is redundant, isn’t it?

BOB BROWN: Yes, but that’s only the case with the pessimists of the Coalition who’ve made it clear. Andrew Robb’s just made it clear that they’re aiming at 5 per cent cut, the same as the Rudd Government. But the UK’s just announced a 34 per cent cut and I was interviewed by the BBC a while ago and the first question they asked is, “How disappointing is this going to be for the international community when they hear Australia is going for a 5 per cent cut?”

The rest of the world is way ahead of this and it’s as if John Howard was still in the saddle, really. I think he would be coming up with this scenario. But it is a scheme to delay for another year. Today’s proposals from Kevin Rudd is another year’s delay if not two years’ delay in meeting dangerous climate change facing the planet.

It’s irresponsible behaviour from where I sit, having heard the evidence of top scientists to the Senate committee that we need to be in the range of 25 to 40 per cent. That’s where the Greens are, and that’s what the international potential target stated at the Bali talks two years ago was, and since then, we’ve seen accelerating bad news on climate change.

TONY JONES: OK, let’s look at the Government’s revised scheme. Are you taking the same line as Greenpeace that this is a victory for the lobbyists of what they call “the big polluters”?

BOB BROWN: It absolutely is, and what we’ve seen today is on top of $7-billion plus in compensation being offered to the big polluters in the first Rudd package, another $2.3 billion. Added up it’s $10 billion being given to the big polluters through free permits if they bring in the trading scheme they’re looking at.

Now that’s simply a financial impost onto the rest of the business community, including small business, and onto householders at the expense, at their expense, to shelve the big polluters who have enormous reach into both the big parties here in Canberra at the expense of the Australian people.

TONY JONES: What’s happening, then, with the solidarity if you like of the Green movement? Because today, as you’ve seen, a whole series of significant green groups are backing today’s changes. The ACF, the World Wildlife Fund, the Climate Institute, are all standing there saying this is a good change.

BOB BROWN: Well I’m a life member of the Australian Conservation Foundation, Tony, and I can tell you that the Australian Conservation Foundation supports the Greens’ target of 40 per cent reduction by 2020. It supports – it opposes a delay in implementing this scheme and it’s absolutely opposed to the free kick going to the polluters.

TONY JONES: But you saw them today, those three groups, standing side by side praising the Government for this change.

BOB BROWN: I did, and you’ll have to ask Don Henry about that. But I’m saying what I know of the Australian Conservation Foundation, and indeed environmentalists across this country, they do not want Australia to be pulling the rug from under the rest of the world as we tackle the greatest threat to not just humanity but to our economy and to jobs and to lifestyle, coming down the line, not just for Australians but right round the planet.

And you know, lobbyists sometimes get caught up in the political climate. I’m aware Peter Garrett’s a former director of the Australian Conservation Foundation. Well, they can speak for themselves. What I know is that we Greens are the most knowledgeable people on this issue in the Parliament. Christine Milne’s the most outstanding spokesperson and we’re not trespassing anywhere down backwards down the line to where the big parties are. For goodness sake, 5 per cent cut by 2020, when we need to be going to 40 per cent.

TONY JONES: So here’s the important question that you’re going to face in the next few weeks. This legislation will come into the Senate, will the Greens vote for it or against it, along with the Coalition presumably, and the other cross benchers?

BOB BROWN: Well, yes, it’s presumably about the Coalition because I’ve heard from Malcolm Turnbull and now from Andrew Robb that they’re looking for further changes before they could support – but they’re looking at a 5 per cent target. So they’ve come into line with the Rudd Government on the all important target. No, the Greens will not support a 5 per cent target, which is what the Rudd Government has, and the potential that has not only for failing this country, and failing the green jobs revolution. We’re in this for a green new deal for the future.

TONY JONES: OK, well, just confirm…

BOB BROWN: We will not be supporting that. The…

TONY JONES: You’ll vote against this legislation when it comes before you, so along with all the others presumably?

BOB BROWN: We will be opposed to this legislation in the Senate. Mind you, we’ll have some very constructive job reach and economic enhancing alternatives through amendments in the Senate when it comes.

TONY JONES: Do you think the Prime Minister’s deliberately setting up here a double dissolution trigger on the issue of climate change?

BOB BROWN: Well, I would hope not. I think if a double dissolution comes, Tony, it’ll be because the Government thinks the recession is going to be worse next year. And I think it’s put climate change, unfortunately, and it’s wrong headed on this, on a backburner. But if it could go to a climate change double dissolution, if you like, at the expense of the Opposition, it would try that, and the analysis is that the Greens will come out stronger in the Senate as a result of the next election, and if it’s on climate change, we Greens will be the constructive opposition going to the Australian people with a much brighter prospect for the future. Capitalising on the opportunity.

TONY JONES: It’s not time for a party political broadcast. I’m interested, though, you’ve been in politics a long time; do you think this is what’s happening? Because the analysis of a lot of people watching who are what’s happening here is that the Government is trying to pinion the Opposition, the Coalition in particular, and in a way force a trigger. Do you think that’s what’s happening?

BOB BROWN: Firstly Tony, I’m a Green and I’m here to put that point of view, but my analysis is that the chances are 20 per cent and it’s increasing rapidly. I think the Government is lining up all the required moves for a potential double dissolution. But let me say this, and I’ve got a long memory. I can remember ’84, for example, where Bob Hawke very, very popular, went to a double dissolution and nearly came off by losing government. Kevin Rudd should serve out his three-year term. This is a time of great challenges facing this nation, not least climate change and the recession, and it’s his job as elected leader of this country to stay there for three years and not to be lining himself up for a potential double dissolution.

TONY JONES: You’re obviously planning for an election with climate change as a major issue. You’ve got a series of ads going to be released tomorrow. I mean, did you have this in mind?

BOB BROWN: Yes, we knew that the Government would go in this direction and at party room last week the Greens, we were very united in going for the 40 per cent reduction and allowing for a 25 per cent reduction if the rest of the world failed. But we don’t want – we want Australia to make the rest of the world a win on climate change and time is very short.

I remember Maggie Thatcher saying in 1990 that every year’s delay would make it more costly to tackle climate change, and I think both Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull should reflect upon that now. We Greens will be putting out some advertisements on television. This is a serious matter. We’re going to the Australian people to explain the better alternatives that we Greens would put in Government and are insisting upon as a bottom line for the future of this country, threatened with both an economic crisis and dangerous climate change. Bring those together and you’ll get a very good job-rich outcome.

TONY JONES: Final question; how did you know a week ago we might be heading towards a double dissolution election?

BOB BROWN: There’s other issues like alcopops and the Senate Opposition blocking very important electoral reform that Senator John Fawkner’s had forward, and you can see that the Government has the triggers becoming available. But climate change is a big issue and the Opposition’s performing badly on it, and the Government sees an opportunity there, and that’s politics. We want to see real action on climate change, not an election.

TONY JONES: Bob Brown, we thank you very much for joining us once again. We’ll speak to you no doubt as this unfolds in the near future. Thank you very much.

BOB BROWN: Thanks, Tony.