What did Justice Allan Blow say about the seriously inadequate investigations by Tasmania Police in the Sue Neill-Fraser case?

Nothing?

Tasmania equally need an independent body examining both judicial and police propriety.The mutual animosity between beaks and cops doesn’t balance the scales of justice.

John Hayward

Finally some one in the legal system acknowledges what people have been saying for a long time to be fact.

The long-existing lack of oversight of the overall judicial system is once again evidenced here. It is high time for those aspiring to be elected or re-elected, in 2014 state election to speak up and inform constituents of their proposed remedy to reverse this glaring undemocratic and unacceptable, state of affairs.

Can anyone tell me please why it is that this issue so well-evidenced and known, has been allowed to continue unaddressed?

Geraldine, (nice to hear from you,) the answer to your question is more-likely being held in safekeeping by non-other than this State’s Governor, maybe even jointly gaurding this precious thing is Murray Kellam AO, another rising form of flotula that finally surfaced in Tasmania and was timely rescued from the boiling cauldrom of fetid effluviums by our kindly Peter Hollywood.

The exotic birds of Supreme feather will unerringly e’er flock together.

Re #4: I don’t think the issue is that widely known about as many have little to do with the judiciary and Supreme Court transcripts are very difficult to obtain (trial video archival footage is impossible to get a copy of as the court registry will assure you of).

Hence those who consider themselves benefited by slackness in the judiciary are pleased for it to continue. Those who are very much bothered by it are dismissed by the poorly-informed general populace as crying foul attempting some last resort cover-up of their presumed guilt. The local media have much to answer for of course by not reporting misconduct occurring in the courtroom. And why is that they do not report this? There must be a considerable lack of independence within Tasmania’s media when the misconduct is quite widespread. I’d say in fact that many of the judiciaries’ comments in court are crafted for the media to report.

Might there even be collusion between who controls the judiciary and various editors of Tasmanian media organisations? Very likely that is the case for court matters that Tas Inc consider sufficiently important for interfering with. Most court reporters have twitter accounts (e.g. ) and comment freely on cases they are sitting in on, qualifying their comments as being their own personal opinions and not a reflection of their media employer’s editorial view. Such twitter comments have considerable potential, with record of these comments being viewable on the twitter account webpages and showing up under websearch, to prejudice witnesses in an ongoing court trial.

6# Mark, I can only agree with you.

Re your observation about twitter comments, “... to prejudice witnesses in an ongoing court trial.” I add —  along with any jury member who twitters.

I can confirm at least two jury members that I know of— who during a trial, used the internet to research matters relevant to a certain trial. I don’t for one second believe that I am the only one to know of such breaches. Unfortunately, I am prevented from saying anymore here, or I can be prosecuted. How bad is that — the fact that (1) it happened, and (2) I can’t disclose it? Yet another unaddressed and most serious fault of the judicial system.

Don’t anyone try to tell me that the judges are unaware of these transgressions. Nonetheless, so long as it appears they don’t know about it and, give the appropriate warnings to jury members, all is well. The paperwork then looks OK, enough done.

More importantly, who cares other than (to quote you in context) “... Those who are very much bothered by it. ...” ? Of necessity this conversation must continue.

I notice with a smile neither the Examiner or Advocate covered this story ,yet we are reading about conduct in the North West of Tasmania. That poses one question there are two cases mentioned how many others has this happened to, everything done in Nth West is now possibly tainted by this episode. Any case even those where there is guilt is suspect of a system that is criticised by one of it’s own.

How do we engage the Tasmanian population and inform them about real issues of concern in our justice system?  The integrity of our police officers and their leaders should be beyond reproach. How do we ensure that shoddy and unethical investigations are not misrepresented in our courts as examples of police best practice? Even when incompetent, unethical or unlawful practices are exposed, who ensures that the poor performers or wrongdoers and their supervisors are re-trained or called to account and, more importantly, that much needed procedural or cultural organisational reform occurs. There is something terribly wrong here in Tasmania.

The Burnie OC spray case in which the Police Officer sprays a 13 year old does not remotely meet Section 46 having watched the You Tube Clips and was manifestly disproportionate so it is any wonder that Tasmanians say what can we do .Plus I saw the responses from some and wonder what planet they are on.Tasmania needs an external independent body to come in and investigate and charge where appropriate those who have committed offences.And put in place systems to stop this happening again.

Barbara Etter 9. This is how the NSW jurisdiction informs their population about issues in their justice system.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/i-would-have-snotted-him-inquiry-hears-taped-phone-call-20130226-2f3cx.html

Notice how the NSW cop says ‘you’re not in charge, we are’? In his mind that is how to maintain police authority on the streets. Our society transfers a lot of its unresolved issues such as excessive alcohol consumption onto the police. We are not a perfect society and our police reflect that truth. In my view our real criminals are politicians who fail to improve our society while being paid to do so.

#11 Karl — Given that in Tasmania the right to live in a democracy exists, something is very wrong in that we are having this conversation.

When democracy fails, the rule of law prevails. Both really go hand-in-hand. When there is breakdown in both those areas as there is, in my view, remedy to right the malfunction does fall on the elected representatives.

Where are the leaders in this dialogue?

Furthermore, in an effort to at least propose something rather than just repeat the same conversation over and over under a different header, I propose that perhaps the first step is to write to the Leaders of the three major parties in this state, asking what they are already doing and/or will do, about this undemocratic state of affairs? 

The same request applies to any prospective candidates for the 2014 election. Their replies or lack thereof could then be published on this site. It could be specified that motherhood statements of policy are unacceptable. Direct and remedial action steps are necessarily required.

Although I find it astonishing that it falls to the ordinary citizens to initiate this, when there are too many ever so handsomely paid persons who ought be actively seeking remedy, it seems to me in the absence of alternative constructive answers that perhaps this could be a first step of something rather than nothing.

I welcome more ‘action required’ suggestions.

Number 10, the magistrate disagrees

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/155301/sentencing-notes-from-capsicum-spray-case/

If the admissions and the confession were ruled inadmissible, what “other evidence” was used to convict the woman?  I presume it was decided by the Judge being satisfied beyond reasonable doubt?

#7 and #9 - In almost every way our system is inadequate and it is true that most people are completely unaware of this.  Law and order is never a popular spend for any government and a large proportion of the voting public have never had cause to doubt their belief that most defendants “deserve” what they get and that it is good to be tough on crime.  Until you find yourself facing the might of the police and the (system) it is a convenient belief to have.  It is up to the minority to keep raising these issues. We must keep discussing these failures to the point where complacent politicians and bureaucrats can no longer ignore the glaring truth; that the system is broken and needs urgent attention. The work that Barbara does is part of that awareness campaign.

14 what is your job with in the system,I have read the sentencing notes but this from a system that thinks a person with spinal fractures can hold a coherent conversation and make a full confession.The judge then completely disregards the evidence act and allows a person to be verbal-led and the unsworn statement gets handed to a jury with no proof it was said
.

My observation is that when moral fortitude is lacking in any level of whichever institution, it is then on shaky ground because the whole system is compromised.

This is frequently illustrated in the Tasmanian justice system whether it is police, prosecution, legal representatives, judiciary and/or jury. It only takes any one of these to put a fair and just system in danger and disgrace. It happens and far too often to justify the current systemic complacency.

When will our (currently impotent) leaders toss their blinkers and lead?

It would be a very worthwhile topic for a Q & A forum, with a panel of representatives from each arm of the system. I suspect there would be no difficulty in getting a ‘house-full’ audience.

Jackie you have summed it up perfectly till you have worked in or been thru the legal minefield most do not know or care.I have worked in most jurisdiction’s of Australia but what I have seen develop in Tasmania is of concern to all because if one person is convicted under a cloud it taints all cases.Both Victoria and Western Australia,South Australia over the years have had to overturn or are in the process of overturning convictions.For Tasmania to think they have no wrongful convictions or questionable conduct in the Legal system it is being delusional.I bet as sure as the sun rises of a morning that when it effects one of there own family or friends how quick the attitude will change.

#18 William have you come to notice that for some reason such occurrences never seem to affect any of the wrongdoers’ own? Perhaps I am a cynic but that is just how it appears to me.

Geraldine what I have noticed is cases where there are wrong doings seem to be Legal Aid funded defences counting on people never having money to fight them properly,you are correct will never happen to one of there own.But rest assured if it is with in peoples power and determination you can be guaranteed the truth will be exposed.

If Glen Woolley makes Tassie Commissioner, Greenies will need flak jackets!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-05-05/tasmania-police-inspector-glen-woolley-at-the/1673532