The proponent hasn’t ruled out using native forest for its wood chip pile!
Gunns of the 21st century!Posted by Ted Mead on 06/07/18 at 07:49 AM
An email within the correspondence sent to STT from a redacted email address said: “we need a new road with a new name, it can be metres from the existing road if need be … “
Oh, will Wee Willy Want a new Woad with no precedent set, and instead do what has been done in the past, namely construct a road and charge it to any other department other than the destructors’ regime?
Wee Willy says there should be no political opposition to this obnoxious proposal. Doubtless he has not read the High Court decision won by Bob Brown.Posted by Chris on 06/07/18 at 09:18 AM
The southern plantations are a roller coaster of disaster. Why were they ever planted?
Wood chips are are at best a low value product, and a money losing scheme when long transport costs are factored in. The whole plantation dream has been a debacle from go to woe, and it has cost millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money that could have been better spent.
What’s next, new roads, new trucks, new port and more subsidies? Will this new get rich scheme fulfil Forestry’s dreams of existence .. or just be another burden for the state or enhance our tourist industry?
It would be interesting if we could ever find out how many billions of dollars have been lost by Gunns, truck drivers, investors, land owners and Forestry, and it appears as if this money losing nightmare is continuing.Posted by max on 06/07/18 at 10:19 AM
Regardless, the State government needs to sharpen up its act to get the ball rolling. Reliance Forest Fibre has just invested $60.9 M in 29,000 ha of unpruned HWP from STT and will soon need to get a return from its investment from the standing chipping quality stands!
I would say there is no time for kindergarten games with this deal. It’s an enormous investment to utilise the otherwise unwanted nitens HWP throughout the South and SE of the State to be initially chipped at NSP South Wood before being exported from the proposed Dover facility by bulk carrier. Bob Brown and his supporters will find themselves snookered overall!
In the mean time Hodgman needs to find a snappy answer to the salmon industry implications too, as I suspect that the salmon industry effluent is already having far more environmental impact on the local waterways than woodchip bulk carriers would!
Increased diversity of our economy is far more important than the Greenie games of locking us into their loopy nonsense.
Heavy metallurgical and mining industry, manufacturing including world class INCAT ferries, cultural artists’ expression experiences / Mona, forestry, and of course appreciation of unique Tasmanian scenery combined with outdoors appreciation, historical towns and local foods are all a part of the Tasmanian way of life.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 06/07/18 at 10:32 AM
Read the link above to the ABC News site above ..
Our Libs have an addiction to woodchip corruption not dissimilar to that of the Catholic Church to paedophilia, only magnified a few thousand times.
John HaywardPosted by john hayward on 06/07/18 at 10:59 AM
Thank-you Matt Newton. Ted, you’re not at all wrong by referring to the Neville Smith Proposal af a slick new Gunns.
Only this time there ain’t no blowhard Paul Lennon to get all the opposition steam-rolled beneath its crushing roller. While something is way out of context in the blather of Guy Barnett, he speaks as though STT were a business trading on its own merits.
This is untrue, as he is 1 half of the stakeholders in STT, the other is this State’s dubious Teasurer as the other stakeholder.
As to the basis of this State government logging GBE we see these 2 not necessarily trusted stakeholders attempting to pull the same stunt as did Forestry Tasmania, in that they were their own stand-alone corporate operation. (Yet not answerable to ASIC the corporate regulator.)
Nothing could be further from the truth about STT as the State GBE “in its former guise of Forestry Tasmania” with nothing at all different in the dynamics of “who is who, back then and now” as STT now rely 100% on the State government to agree and approve of every action, their funding needs, then whatever else is sought by the 2 not-to-be-trusted stakeholders ministers.
As for Adriana Taylor being referred to as a single administrator of the former Huon Valley Council, (since every Councillor had been sacked) when behind the scenes there is a hugely compliant Adriana Taylor working as a very active component of this State’s non-citizen representative Liberal government.
Adriana Taylor had sat in on a special State GBE meeting in which had the former Attorney General (the late Vanessa Goodwin) in attendance, while the purpose of that meeting was to discuss the then working model of the State GBE, Tasmania’s Public Trustees, also among the persons in attendance was the legal officer of Tasmania’s Public Trustees, Tim Levis.
The objective of this meeting was to discuss a more attractive model or to do a complete makeover of this “pretend facility” for Tasmania’s people, (think here, ruthless GBE) was to look into the downturn of clients marching in through the main door seeking some assistance.
Now back to the subject matter of the bloated underbelly of this State government and its purpose, then back to STT and their liaison with Neville Smith, then how the 2 STT stakeholders would string everything together to overcome every obstacle in the fight for Neville Smith to get his wood-chip facility up and running.
to be continued/Posted by William Boeder on 06/07/18 at 11:14 AM
continued/ You’ve read it here folks, there is a group of colluding State government ministers focused on getting the new parasite wood-chip facility in Dover up and soon destroying even more Crown Land forest turning this valuable resource into profits for Neville Smith per the native forests being turned into bastard wood-chips.
800,000 tonnes per annum is a heck of a lot of Crown Land forest, once the plantations were all harvested. (or even sooner.)
Maybe now we can understand why there was such sinister goings-on in the Huon Valley Council when this had been the cause behind the sacking event, as may have been that earlier action to have Neville Smith’s wood-chipping facility up and running without any possible Huon Valley council objection.
I do believe that the now clearly identified to be a conspiring State government, has a duty to the Tasmanian citizens, if that is not being delivered then we have no need for a treacherous criminal-like State government Liberal party. A call for a vote of no confidence may be the way to go.
A letter to the State Governor will soon be on its way. Followed by a copy letter to the office of Shadow General Attorney Mark Dreyfuss in Canberra.Posted by William Boeder on 06/07/18 at 11:17 AM
So the plot thickens, as with all things forestry ...“dirty deals done dirt cheap”Posted by Teresa Maddox on 06/07/18 at 11:48 AM
To raise their credibility, Team Hodgman must be considering a high-profile head for STT. The newly jobless Scott Pruitt is the obvious choice.
John HaywardPosted by john hayward on 06/07/18 at 02:06 PM
#5 ... Robin, Increased diversity of our economy is far more important than the Greenie games of locking us into their loopy nonsense.
Well Robin, let’s look at some of this loopy nonsense. $90 M to establish the world’s most expensive plantation in the world with no close shipping or chipping versatilities, and there had to be maintenance costs. And then to sell this total white elephant for $60.7 M with a 99 year lease on 29,000 hectares with no guarantees is beyond belief. There must have been some agreement not mentioned in the sale to versatile roads and shipping or why would they foolishly spend so much money?
Forestry, mainly woodchipping, has been a far cry from an increased diversity of our economy. It has been what could only be described as a total disaster. To call Forestry sustainable with a name change must be a sick joke.Posted by max on 06/07/18 at 02:18 PM
It’s times like this, so omnipresent in Tasmania, that make one long for an ICAC.
John HaywardPosted by john hayward on 06/07/18 at 03:21 PM
#9, #10 and #11 ... In my opinion, the culpability and the alleged dishonest and traitor-like revelation of facts will be difficult to defend, no amount of ministerial denial will sweep this matter below the carpet.
Just to add to the alleged claims relative to dirty deeds portfolio shared by all the State’s ministers “though more-so the prominent villainy of one particular minister Guy (the Zombie smiler) Barnett “he often spending time in harness with Treasurer and planning minister Peter Gutwein” is the connection of major events that began with the sacking of the Huon Valley Council, despite the nominated fractious conducts of the rebellious hot-heads, also sacked and had become the foremost reasoning for this arm of Local government to be removed from office. (Read here an action of Peter Gutwein also the minister for local government, whew’ so many different portfolio hats.)
Some may claim that the revelations and the alleged placement into the public arena are hearsay nonsense and libellous in their content, not so when one strings a number of deeply discordant events together that will counter “the nonsense and the libellous claims” should this become an action or form of defence.
Whatever the campaign or action that may be initiated by the underbelly Exclusives lurking in the shadows “yet ever so close to the helm of the good ship Tasmania” one must consider the overall period of “the necessary time required to draft up the magnitude of all the schematics” for the wood-chip proponents to finally launch their nefarious Dover plot into the mainstream media.
Forget about the inane squark of more jobs for Tasmanians, as this jobs factor means Jack Schitt to the Exclusives including the Tas Inc individuals involved.
In case memories have faded, right at the very beginning of this mega-plot was the difficulty of bypassing the staunch and stoic principles held by former Mayor Peter Coad and his loyal group of fidelity-bound fellow councillors.
One must factor in the changes to Tasmania’s planning laws: https://architectureau.com/articles/Major-revamp-of-Tasmanian-planning-edges-closer-to-approval/
This in itself was a necessary prelude to any major business development planned by the state’s Exclusives and the state’s 2 STT stakeholder ministers. So as #9 Teresa has implied, the plot doth thicken when all things forestry of dirty deals notoriously done on the cheap.
This plot has not been an easy undertaking given the broad parameters necessary that had to be shaped to enable an almost guaranteed passage for this dirty deal to achieve its fruition.
I would like to read comments that may suggest the likelihood of criminal-like undertakings.Posted by William Boeder on 06/07/18 at 04:53 PM
#5 ... “Reliance Forest Fibre has just invested $60.9 M in 29,000 ha of unpruned HWP from STT”
We need to remember Robin, that RFF purchased the 29,000 ha at fire sale rates. STT was happy with whatever it received from private enterprise, as it temporarily put their books into the black and we saw Guy Barnett with the biggest possible smile.
When RFF made this “investment” (as you call it) Triabunna was already closed. The purchaser knew at the time they would need to transport the feeder logs to Burnie. And as you will recall, our Liberal government put in place a road subsidy to “assist” the transport because Triabunna was closed, a five year subsidy deal that is about to end.
Reliance Forest Fibre and Smartfibre are ONLY interested in making more profit. James Neville-Smith entered the public arena in December 2017 telling us he was “walking on water” with a proposal for Dover that would save Southern Tasmania. Jobs, jobs and jobs. His main man at the time, Danny Peet, spoke of this being a generational project for the next 50 years or more.
The reality is that both of these companies, with overseas connections and accounts in the Cayman Islands, will save $50 per tonne by exporting out of a port in Dover, as against trucking the logs up to their existing chipping mill in Burnie.
Is Southern Tasmania worth trashing for the sake of even more profits for multi-millionaires?
Do we really want a log truck every 5 minutes of every day of the week carting feeder logs from all over Southern Tasmania, Derwent West and Derwent East on our residential roads on route to the Southwood Mill in Lonnavale?
This is not a good solution for Tasmania.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 06/07/18 at 05:07 PM
What is it with the woodchip obsession in Tasmania?
This is shaping up to be yet another long-term zombie nature destruction project, fully propped up by the taxpayer of course.
Who would want to invest $42 million on such a low rate commodity product .. unless they were promised a long-term supply of native forests far into the future for nothing, which is probably inclusive of free infrastructure and utilities, and transport subsidies to boot.
Not content to heavily subsidise residues transport from the south to the north, the Tas government has probably promised a similar transport subsidy from the north to the south.
This is blinkered madness.
Fools’ paradise on a stick!Posted by Ted Mead on 06/07/18 at 05:25 PM
The trees in the forest and the fish in the sea are public assets that cost nothing and therefore have no known price.
They are available through our ever obliging pollies who can grant a political licence to reap without sowing .. provided you oil the wheels of their stately progress.
Ta Ann, Gunns ...
I smell another swindle over the horizon as the STT asset has already been gifted at ‘mates rates’ to an offshore entity.
The new game is to ship without subsidy, a subsidy that has paid for all the previously scrapped and paid out log trucks to be put back on the roads.
Barnett and Gutwein will be only toooo[ happy to oblige.
Once the plantations have gone then yippee into the free asset .. the main game being the people’s native forests.
Please do not forget us when the next election needs to be bought, for only your money will keep this gravy train on the rails!
Only in your corrupt Tasmania.Posted by John Hawkins on 06/07/18 at 06:16 PM
At 8:05 pm Friday I night had a call from Bevan at EMRS doing a survey for “Dept of State Growth” ..all about forestry and attitudes towards various aspects of it. I had fun, and Bevan had an excellent sense of humour. Emrs should hang onto him as he makes phone surveys enjoyable.
It occurred to me that this sort of in depth research would be very helpful in spinning any Liberal messaging in the current by-election campaign, but our state government would never be that sneaky about spending our money .. would they?Posted by Simon Warriner on 06/07/18 at 08:31 PM
#8 ... “A letter to the State Governor will soon be on its way. Followed by a copy letter to the office of Shadow General Attorney, Mark Dreyfuss in Canberra.”
Please publish on TT, and also any replies you may receive.Posted by TGC on 06/07/18 at 08:38 PM
#18 ... I am afraid I cannot work you out, Trevor.
Far too cryptic. This is really serious stuff. Are you for or against the idea of chipping all this plantation timber? Then when that runs out, chipping our native forests ... ?
Please don’t bore us, or tease us with wasted words. What is the gist of your letter to the high office?
Time to listen to your adversary, Ted Mead, for a change.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 06/07/18 at 10:15 PM
All those bloody floating rings sure are visually offensive, and simply ruin an otherwise picture postcard view.
Give me a bulk carrier, ship loader and a conveyor any day.Posted by MjF on 07/07/18 at 01:34 AM
and now that the tree planters have made no money
what will happen after chipping
will the land be cleared and replanted and if so by whomPosted by Mike Seabrook on 07/07/18 at 02:18 AM
#10 ... John Hayward, I have been able to track down Mr Scott Pruitt for the benefit of those wondering where this person fits into the greater society of this World. He was the former minister of the USA Environment Protection Agency. The link below will provide the relevance of how he could rate as a man of politics here in our Tasmania. Then again he would fit in comfortably among Tasmania’s political classes, and soon become socially accepted by Tasmania’s Exclusives, more-so given his last role held with the American Federal Administration as the minister of the US Environmental Protection Agency.
This person would be welcomed by the Liberal party brains trust, then very likely to become a best mate and pal with a certain ill-omened and ill-intending Tasmanian Senator, therefore highly likely to fit into the company of Tasmania’s Exclusives- despite he being a toxic stink-bug in his role with the USA EPA.
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2018/07/05/21932/scott-pruitt-resigns-epa?utm_source=Watchdog&utm_campaign=8db8ff8b36-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_05_08_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffd1d0160d-8db8ff8b36-102656005&mc_cid=8db8ff8b36&mc_eid=b769f43ac0Posted by William Boeder on 07/07/18 at 08:35 AM
Bolstering their credentials as stewards of the environment, the Tas Government has distinguished itself by winning mention on RN as the only state in Australia which has not placed the Eastern Quoll on the endangered list.
John HaywardPosted by john hayward on 07/07/18 at 09:38 AM
#19 ... Geoffrey, I’m not sure I would consider Trevor my adversary because most of the time I don’t understand what his premise is, and therefore if I don’t understand what he is implying then I can’t argue with it in logic.Posted by Ted Mead on 07/07/18 at 10:49 AM
#17 ... Simon, it is my opinion that you are correct in asking the question .. “would they?”
I am also inclined that you are correct in your assessment as we all know Tasmania’s Liberal party ministers do not govern for the people, yet they will orchestrate whatever may be required by influential others that may be desired or required from this State’s Liberal party ministers, therefore, will utilise State revenues for their own and or their special others to achieve their ulterior purposes.
One must expect that a new form of Gunns Ltd has entered into the inexcusable and grossly improper claiming to access Tasmania’s remaining natural resource bounty solely to enrich their bastard wood-chipping selves.
As I understand the selfish whims of Tasmania’s resource plundering entrepreneurs, this is the stuff that excites, then quickly energises Tasmania’s Liberal party ministers and delivers them a greater satisfaction than representing the State’s non-cashed-up proletariat.Posted by William Boeder on 07/07/18 at 11:16 AM
Click on vertebrates for an update.
Or perhaps its just my imagination.
Maybe this is actually a list of PTR’s in Meander Valley municipality, and I’m just not seeing it.Posted by MjF on 07/07/18 at 11:21 AM
#24 ... Thanks for clarification, Ted. I remain confused with TGC’s comments .. sometimes I can follow .. but mostly I am at a loss.
#21 ... As advised in an earlier post Mike, JNS has advised they will employ 10 full time tree planters to replace the cleared plantations to give this project a 50 year life going forward.
Having observed some local plantation clearing I can only wonder at the huge cost to not only cut off the trees at the base, but to then remove all the stumps and debris, and then make ready the soil for more trees.
Surely at the ridiculously cheap woodchip prices there is no money in this venture ... unless everyone along the line is being screwed big time.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 07/07/18 at 11:34 AM
Maybe there’s case to be made for the whole of that area south of Hobart to be classified as ‘Tourists Only - on bicycle or foot. No cars.’Posted by TGC on 07/07/18 at 11:52 AM
#26. MjF. Without a shadow of a doubt the State government through their GBE, Forestry Tasmania, had been the major cause for the destruction of both the habitat and the diversity of indigenous to Tasmania wildlife that dwelt therewithin.
I note that the latest inventive title by Guy (the zombie smiler) Barnett of the “new fact proven non-sustainable” GBE of STT now having been set into motion will engage in exactly that same wildlife slaughterous logging process that is destined to continue into the futures in this the State of Tasmania.
The only other culprits involved were the long-term number of stakeholder State government Lib/Lab ministers who acted in cahoots of whichever of these rotating leadership political party’s that were moreover failing to govern Tasmania as each had pledged to the then State Governor in situ.
Given the both yourself and R C Halton have spent many years working with the former now derelict debt-laden downfallen and defunct Forestry Tasmania, a lot of your previous employment tasks with this blighted State GBE had each of you positioned before or just prior to and with R C Halton toiling at and from the clear-fell coalface of these extensive wildlife annihilations.
How can it be that you each continually ignore your former role in the mass habitat destruction and the consequent annihilation of the greater proportion of Tasmania’s indigenous wildlife? I offer that your folderol nonsense of directing the TT comment readers and subscribers to websites that seemingly prefer to ignore the causation of the above is a wilful intent to mislead the people of Tasmania.
I now wait for your response in relation to your empty denials, your inexcusable excuses, perhaps even your attempt to blame lightning ignited bushfires et al.Posted by William Boeder on 07/07/18 at 02:52 PM
Ted at #15 asks “What is it with the woodchip obsession in Tasmania?” I have been assured by TT’s resident sage TGC that corruption doesn’t exist in Tasmania, so it has to be that woodchipping gives the dumb and otherwise unemployable amongst us a purpose.Posted by Donzel Harbashi on 07/07/18 at 03:12 PM
#29 ... Since when did you take an interest in all matters faunal, Willy ?
This is a recent development.Posted by MjF on 07/07/18 at 04:06 PM
#30 ... Donzel, Yes, the reply that accompanied your own question seems to be a consistently held view, though I would be a little hesitant to regard TGC as TT’s resident sage. Incidentally, I am of the mind that common logic is not one of this person’s foremost characteristics.
One might add to the characteristics in which appears tellingly conspicuous, the sense and reason for conscionable awareness to sensitive and sensible matters such as conservation of natures benevolence and its cornucopia, seems to go straight through to the Keeper.
#31 ... In reply to your diversionary question, since my arrival in Tasmania to take possession of my home in 2002 is applicable to both Flora & Fauna. Now, how about responding specifically to my contention re R C Halton and M J Fitch, and of each of the State government necessitating tasks, strategies, and undertakings?Posted by William Boeder on 07/07/18 at 07:17 PM
#14, Geoffrey, get ready for it the HWP’s are ready for harvest, the unpruned wood has to be moved for what it is worth on the current market mainly as logs for chipping.
There is no looking back, regardless of the Dover out come and how long its takes, increased logging movements are due to happen.
Any clown from either the local councils around the South or from the Parliament would have known this since the failure of Gunns Pulp Mill, the wood would find a market and that has occurred during the past 4 years or so.
No time for bubble dwellers here, man the action stations!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 07/07/18 at 10:35 PM
#32 ... Nope.
40% of VDL’s publicly forested land mass is squirrelled away behind formal reserve walls .. and counting.
Plus an unknown (to me) percentage of native forest on private property is covenanted for conservation in perpetuity for the benefit of the general public, all at no cost to you. What more do you want ? What was on your house block site prior to its development ?
As the current owner, I’d hate to think you are currently responsible for permanent habitat destruction .. but you are.
The difference is that a house block won’t return to its undisturbed state, whereas a logged coupe will.Posted by MjF on 08/07/18 at 10:04 AM
#33 ... Yesterday’s thinking, Robin.
Woodchip is the lowest common denominator. HWP can give us far better returns than being chipped and shipped .. and it is not all about paper production.
Our low cost chips coming from our native forests and plantations are now feeding furnaces in Europe and Asia.
It’s not too late to prune the HWP. Then give them another 20 years in the ground and then let’s use them for something far more sensible and far more valuable as hardwood logs. And who knows what we will have learnt about E Nitens over the next 20 years.
And of course, there’s nothing wrong with leaving them where they stand - after all, we are facing a climate change crisis.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 08/07/18 at 10:24 AM
Southern Tasmania has been developing steadily for the past five years. That’s because people want to live there. It hasn’t been screwed over by heavy industry.
The Dover development is exactly what southern Tasmania doesn’t need.
It’s hard to believe that a very few people can hold such great power to screw it up for everyone.
A log truck every five minutes? This will be more than just a blight on the local lifestyle. People are going to die on the roads, and stress and pollution levels will increase with the heavy diesel-powered traffic.Posted by Time to sell up on 08/07/18 at 11:45 AM
#34 ... Interesting that you bring into focus the VDL. I recall a recent case event regarding the former executive board individual sitting on the board of VDL (methinks it was a Miles Hampton) that had sought to the clearing of 7,000 hectares of old Growth ancient forest. Do you recall how this was achieved MjF? No?
Enter into the valley of deceptive conducts and duplicitous dealings, recall a non-citizen representative rather deceptive Labor minister person of ill-repute, who had lifted the applicable legislation for a brief period to provide a sneak approval to greatly exceed the maximum coop area of X an amount, the approval was then obtained for some 7-000 hectares of VDL granted land to be cleared, whereupon that lifted item of legislation was dropped back in place. Do you recall who the person appointed to clear-fell all that land happened to be?
How did this occur MjF, when 7,000 hectares in one lump had gained its approval? Could it have been duped “by a well known slippery sliding former forest minister better known as the minister for logging the bejesus from the Crown Lands of Tasmania?
This same shady fiddler of the truth known for his many appearances before the court judge sitting on the bench, likely one of Tasmania’s high appointed former legal beaks (one must think here that the judge would just be another example of this State’s judges (all known for sporting their crooked bent beaks) was ever to go soft on this serial offender. Just think of a person named Green.
The link above waffles on about the Forests Protection Board, which to me is little more than a compliant dodge to aid this State’s Crown Land logging crooks. Now MjF, the Forests Protection Board does it still exist, and is it protecting our forests?
As for the ground under my house had consisted of a shale-like minute-grained sedimentary rock. As far as I am aware the former ground beneath my house in its pre-cleared presentation and way back in its former long life, was a bare patch of a somewhat flat planed part-weathered and degraded slaty rock. (All the soils on my house block had since been carted in to sit above the rocky under-base. Given the rocky ground appearance under my house, so no luck in what you have suggested.)
This undulating lower ground was all altered when the EZ Electrolytic mob sent in their bulldozers back in the 1950s or thereabouts.
Now then MjF, tell me more about your prior vocation with Forestry Tasmania without any obviated nonsense?Posted by William Boeder on 08/07/18 at 02:04 PM
#33 ... Robin, were these plantations planted for the Gunns’ pulp mill? If so were you one of the clowns involved in this debacle, a debacle that cost tax payers millions of dollars?
The taxpayers have subsidised forest residue cartage from the southern forests to the site of the proposed Gunns pulp mill at a cost of millions. It would have needed the same subsidies to cart these plantations to Gunns. Gunns’ pulp mill was always going to fail with long distance cartage.
As you say .. any clown could have seen the problem before establishing the plantations, so why did they go ahead?Posted by max on 08/07/18 at 02:23 PM
#37 ... Might I suggest Will, that your mind is not perhaps as sound and perceptive as it once was ?
The VDL application you hark back to was for 15,000 hectares of clearing. It was eventually watered down to a permitted 7,000 ha, I believe endorsed via a ministerial exemption.
How this came about I do not know, but suffice to say government intervention was provided at some stage and an argument for material hardship and commercial restriction of free trade etc (or similar) may have been put. Perhaps a promise of donations or of other works in kind were agreed to.
I can however report than not 1 of the 7,000 approved ha has been cleared, and it would now appear extremely unlikely to ever happen under the cash strapped Chinese ownership now in place.
What else was there ? Ah yes ..
So you are the owner and custodian of a permanently altered ex native habitat plot of land in the western districts, no doubt once providing sound and secure homes for an eastern barred bandicoot, a Tasmanian devil or two, probably a masked owl in one of the several bulldozed hollow OG trees and more than likely a large den of Ma & Pa spotted-tailed quolls (with regular litters) which all preferred your now wholly domesticated acre of ground as a refuge and sanctuary.
So how do you sleep at night knowing you’ve done your level best to maintain permanent loss of habitat for these iconic species whilst been able to reside comfortably and securely yourself into your twilight years ?
I don’t know of the Forest Protection Board. There used to be Fauna Protection Board many years ago as a forerunner to the upmarket Parks and Wildlife agency.
Perhaps the old noggin is a trifle cloudy, as I earlier alluded to.Posted by Mjf on 08/07/18 at 04:06 PM
#39 ... My apology for that error, I should have averred to the Forest Practices Board, yet you would have been alerted to this error more-so if you had acted responsibly and read the link publication that I had provided for you. I felt it necessary to enclose this so you could better understand the content and its important set of regulations that now throttles many of your oppositional points of view and opinions in which you have preferred over and above the content held, that you had so regularly engaged in despite its fact-based the academic-based fact to the contrary.
As for those contrary assumptions held in your above comment, they do not provide any comfort to your own intellect with your increasing incessant mind flights into the forested dreamland of Brigadoon.
Your assumed narrative of the terra firma and its overlay in times of long ago held in your mind of the Mid West Coastal primal geology seemed to be another obscure depiction held in your mind during one of your regular flights into the mythical realm of Brigadoon.
The land surface descriptive used so keenly by you is more representative of the Tasmanian landscape per your occupation, that had you ignore all else but to claim such landscape and environment as fit to clear-fell log mostly for bastard wood-chips and for whatever else.
This including the improper taxpayer revenue subsidisation that would be regularly gifted by this State government to itself, but in the guise of the former GBE of Forestry Tasmania that operated and had created and irresponsibly managed the hugely indebted and failed former real-time employer, effectively identified as being this State’s shallow-minded Lib/Lab government.
How about less of your diversionary endeavour when you next respond (to my inquiries as were nominated in my #29) in the manner of an ulterior motivated South Australian ego-centric scientist? I believe this will be important to benefit your own self-intellect to maintain your now slowly diminishing recall of events during your history of input into the degrading and destructive effect you had contributed, being a vast portion of this World’s blessed magnitude of forested landscapes once swaying softly to the breezes in the seasons across the fair isle of Tasmania.
Your occupational effect upon Tasmania’s former Ancient Gondwanaland forests will carry your name forward into the perpetuity of the many known number of harms so foolishly wrought upon Tasmania, largely to the benefit of a now convicted greed-crazed Ogre in the name of what may become a hybrid of the Cane-toad species bearing the scientific appellation of Johnum Gaius Ignoramus Toxicus Destructum.Posted by William Boeder on 08/07/18 at 06:11 PM
#19 ... “Time to listen to your adversary, Ted Mead, for a change.” I do “listen (read) (my) adversary” but I find him too depressing after just a few words.
All the smarmy lot on TT against pretty much everything could lead to those of us with a much more sensible and positive attitude requiring to be on suicide watch were it not for our understanding that these Jeremiahs are only trying to assuage their own darkness by getting miserable thoughts out into some sort of light.
Naturally ‘we’ welcome this outpouring of their depressive mood recognising that, just maybe, our own cheerfulness might one day break through to them .. and they can then enjoy life.Posted by TGC on 08/07/18 at 07:07 PM
#40 ... I’m pretty sure I sent you that link a year or two ago, for your urgently needed edification. Now you send it back as if to say .. “Sharpen up, young fella. I’ve got something useful here for ya.”
Willy, I am at a loss to explain your conduct. Perhaps an unseasonally cold and damp western winter is playing tricks ?
Did you venture up the coast today to catch our national leaders strutting their stuff ?Posted by MjF on 08/07/18 at 07:08 PM
#34 ... “The difference is that a house block won’t return to its undisturbed state, whereas a logged coupe will.” So how do you explain this paradox?Posted by Donzel Harbashi on 08/07/18 at 08:20 PM
# 41 ... What a laugh Trev. - You couldn’t image the adventurous fulfilling life I have led travelling and exploring the world and educating myself on all things about the interconnectedness of life in which we exist. I suggest you get out of your Perth cave one day for a look.
The only time I feel disillusioned, or if you want to label it depressed, is when I read about politics and/or the insular contributions by those who live in the dark and comment on TT.
Being a committed conservationist requires putting yourself out there subject to abuse, criticism and misunderstanding, but the rewards of achieving something that continues to protect vast expanses of primitive nature and all life within is something that cynics like yourself will never comprehend.
I do foresee the day when I will move on beyond TT and state conservation, but that time will come at my discretion.
Beyond that, your myopic and conservative contributions to petty intellect will sadly linger on!Posted by Ted Mead on 08/07/18 at 09:54 PM
wonder who is paying for rates and the roads re the trees which were sold for est. $1,000 per acre and which cost the tax punters and forestry (tas taxpayer) was it $5,000 per acre
can replanting and remediation costs be justified and paid for by whom?Posted by Mike Seabrook on 09/07/18 at 12:25 AM
is it on the outer in malaysia after the recent regime change in malaysiaPosted by Mike Seabrook on 09/07/18 at 12:32 AM
#43 ... What paradox ?Posted by Mjf on 09/07/18 at 08:18 AM
#47 ... Fancy being flummoxed by the word paradox. The word paradox is a statement that, despite apparently sound reasoning from true premises, leads to an apparently self-contradictory or logically unacceptable conclusion.
So Mjf, from the paradoxical perspective, your mindset and your outlook being so blemished, has been reasonably summed up and delivered by Donzel Harbashi.
In a prior comment by Donzel from an external to Tasmania legal-practitioner perspective, has cleverly recognised the culture of Tasmania’s State government and its solidarity with pro-loggers and wildlife exterminators, has identified this “paradoxical Tasmanian government created phenomenon?”
#13 ... An interesting analogy, however even in a red-neck infested, intellectually impoverished backwater like Tasmania would a simpleton soon work out that crop of sugar cane, carrots or potatoes would be of much greater benefit to the community than a eucalypt plantation would ever be, as well as being far more profitable.
Posted by Donzel Harbashi on 22/06/18 at 07:12 PMPosted by William Boeder on 09/07/18 at 12:47 PM
#46 ... Mike Seabrook, Taib Mahmud, as the Governor or a self-elected regent of some kind in Sarawak, is “alleged to be the king of money launderers” in the South East Asia region, so it is odds on that these two persons (Najib Razak and Taib Mahmud) are going to suffer the same fate given their joint history of illegitimate transnational financial undertakings.Posted by William Boeder on 09/07/18 at 01:08 PM
#48 ... Thank you Willy, for providing rapid follow-up which is unnecessary.
The fact is there is no paradox. My conclusions are perfectly logical and true.
So when are you going to remove your abode, outbuildings, driveway, fences, all services etc and regenerate the site back to native vegetation as best you can in the hope that displaced native flora and fauna species may eventually return from whence they were summarily ejected ?Posted by Mjf on 09/07/18 at 01:41 PM
#50 ... No problem Mjf, though the matter of the State’s government in is own unique way ‘is’ a major cause of concern when indeed the State’s major Indigenous wildlife slaughterer happens to be its very own government ministers, albeit through their determination to continue to clear-fell destruction of this small State’s Old Growth Crown Land forests.
When one examines the beneficiaries of the grand scale clear-fell logging destruction of so great an amount of Tasmania’s Native Forests, enables the expansion of wealth to a very limited few seems rather illogical.
Then the given reasons to do so is to the specific benefit of 2 somewhat monopolistic business concerns, one being Ta Ann overseas owned Ta Ann Berhad, a publicly listed entity on the Kuala Lumpur stock exchange, the chairman being Hamed Sepawi of Sarawak. One will be somewhat surprised that its Tasmanian peculiar business holdings seem not to rate a mention in this link per the courtesy of a comprehensive Reuters worldwide available stock market report: https://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview/TAAN.KL
The many available references held on this report page lead to rather significant avenues of information describing the functions and the extensive international native forest timber acquisitions by this business operation.
The other reason or cause for the ever ongoing full-on slaughter of Tasmania’s indigenous wildlife is to support the supply of native timber logs to Tasmania’s bastard wood-chip export operations, in particular the Nevile Smith owned timber businesses in Tasmania: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-27/neville-smith-forest-products-warning-tasmanian-forest-wars/8307064
After reading and examining the information held in the 2 links provided it becomes evident that the current Liberal State government has no intention to ease back on freeing up Tasmania’s Crown Land native forests, which somewhat blatantly confirms that the immorally unacceptable continuation of Indigenous wildlife slaughter and habitat destruction is of no concern to the Tasmanian State government generally.
I myself believe that the very realisation of the greater volume of ongoing Indigenous Wildlife slaughter is in its own way a contradictory deliberation, yet this is being purposely ignored by its State government ministers.
The fact the controversial consent being given by Tasmania’s government does not hinder the purposes of providing their support that continues the slaughter of the State’s rapidly diminishing numbers of its various endangered wildlife species, certainly at cross purposes with the people of Tasmania.
This fact alone is worthy of National News headlines across Australia if not also a major international news event that is considered essential for transmission across the rest of the countries around the globe.Posted by William Boeder on 09/07/18 at 04:19 PM
Was it #51 ?
Write again to the governor and the shadow ‘general attorney’.Posted by MjF on 10/07/18 at 08:01 AM
#52 ... So MjF, I note that you have not denied that the Tasmanian State government through their nominated GBE, then transferred to their contractors and employees are the sum total of the driving forces behind the slaughter of Tasmania’s Indigenous wildlife.
Cause and effect, what does this spell out about Tasmania’s government in general?
I’ll answer the question for you in case you are unable to get your mind attuned to the unconscionable, nay, ‘the reprehensible’ mindsets of this State’s Lib/Lab ministers that think of nothing other than lying and deceiving the citizens of Tasmania.
At election time my vote will go to the Drovers dog, never to either of the Lib/Lab huddle of ministers, as both these political parties are in league when it comes to destroying the image and the substance of this State.
Now MjF, no more of your irrelevant nonsense if you please.
The only means of the Neville Johnson Native Forest filching wood-chip madness will have before it is finally approved and is up and running, can only be through the illegal lawless and statute breaching agency of all that is the government in this State.
Precedents of artificial concoction have already been set, 2 of them, Martin Bryant as the patsy for the Port Arthur Massacres, the second is the volume of illegal and or illegitimate approvals tossed toward John Gay’s proposed poisonous polluting Pulp Mill.
Given that this whole series of events underlying the Neville Smith ‘flouting of the law’ wood-chip mill proposal, it is inevitable that the method and means employed in this monopolistic grasp for the State’s Southern Native Forests will become open to legal challenge, despite the cabal of conspirators thereto engaged.
Neville Smith had claimed he had been walking on water, I find this hard to believe, my guess is he will sink under the very same fundamental forces he had chosen to oppose.Posted by William Boeder on 10/07/18 at 12:53 PM
Outstanding from the previous article “The short term thinking”, I have an answer for #13 MjF, #6 Russell, and #12 Alan Mason, who told me that I am behind the times and that CRC forestry no longer exists!
I phoned Terry Edwards, CEO of FIAT, last week who informed me that the Centre for Sustainable Architecture with Wood (CSAW) has replaced the CRC Forestry role.
The Director is Associate Professor Greg Nolan and the Research and Development Centre is based in Launceston.
Currently there is a grant of $109,774 funding for Processing pruned Euc nitens to produce high value saw-log and veneer products.
As we speak, Britton Brothers of Smithton are undertaking the sawing and classification trial of what is to be oldest of pruned HWP logs .. believed to be around 25 years of age.
Over the remainder of the year I will try and keep my finger on the pulse with Assoc Professor Nolan to find out when the results are published and available for public perusal.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 10/07/18 at 01:58 PM
Willy, it is not Neville Smith as in Christian and surnames.
It is a surname only, and I believe actually hyphenated, ie Neville-Smith
So when you refer to Neville-Smith you should precede the surname with a Christian eg, James.
Neville Johnson ? Who ? I’m signing off now, you can have the last word.
One more thing, don’t send me back any links I’ve previously provided to you. Bad form.Posted by Mjf on 10/07/18 at 03:05 PM
#54, good information to know and a very relevant project. Well done.Posted by Alan Mason on 11/07/18 at 09:29 AM
I wonder if JNS has considered the possibility of using portable chippers at the harvesting sites instead of clearing a large area of forest for a chipping site in Dover.
Last spring I managed to spend some time in WA and stayed near Porongurup as a base to primarily visit the Stirling Ranges and the study the surrounding landscapes before heading down to Albany for another stay.
We managed to stumble upon a logging operation out past Zarephath Wines where plantation Tas Blue gum was being harvested and immediately chipped on site into large B double bins then trucked back out onto the main highway at Chester Pass Road onto the receiving facility at Albany port.
On our move to Albany, we passed a few large chip bin trucks and empties returning to the plantations, there were no issues with road safety what so ever, how lucky is WA to have a decent and well planned roading infrastructure throughout its SW corner.
For us its a question of significant road upgrades to cope with our more difficult terrain given the increased heavy cartage traffic that we are now experiencing regardless of whether it be cartage of materials other than logs.
Heavy road transport, like it or not are a sign of the times. get used to it as there is little option available at present.
A railhead a Karanja is unlikely but more likely at Bridgewater where a facility already exists planned in advance for Gunns pulp mill but could be brought into action to facilitate logs, not chips heading to the northern ports.
Would it be cost effective re handling from truck- rail- processing/port facility!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 11/07/18 at 09:37 AM
#57 ... It is my understanding that JNS and his consultant team have been working on this project for at least 2 years.
It’s very strange that they only just realised there is a salmon lease in their way .. or is that just to a red herring and either Tassal and/or JNS stand to gain because our Liberal government will likely throw some taxpayer dollars their way?
We would have to believe that portable chippers have been well and truly considered, and in some locations they may still be a feasible option, especially on sites close to the proposed export facility.
What you are not considering however Robin, is that JNS is invested in the Southwood Mill at Lonnavale, an idea first put up by FT almost 20 years ago which was then followed by an investment of millions of tax payers’ dollars from Paul Harriss, and to this day it has been struggling to justify its existence. The jobs, jobs, jobs promise never eventuated. No surprise there.
So is it that JNS wants Southwood to turn a dollar? Or is it that our Liberal government and the back room boys from the Gunn’s era, who are still pulling the puppet strings, are still trying to justify a bad decision taken 20 years ago?
There is much more to this story than just a woodchip export facility ...Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 11/07/18 at 03:23 PM
#55 ... I am tired of your droll deliberations and nonsensical responses. Best you ply your irrelevancies elsewhere.Posted by William Boeder on 11/07/18 at 03:23 PM
#57 ... There is no chipping proposal at the Strathblane/Dover site. The proposal is to chip logs at Southwood and bin the chips to a stockpile at Port Esperance via existing STT roads. I thought you were across this.
#58 ... Geoffrey, don’t lose sight of the fact there is already an operating chipper at Southwood which processes mill residues, a weighbridge etc. Politicking aside, its probably quite practical to upgrade this facility to accommodate a large volume of ETF.
I hope this is not too droll, nonsensical or irrelevant for either of you.Posted by Mjf on 11/07/18 at 05:30 PM
#60 ... Thanks Martin. Yes, I’m across all of this, but when you read the elaborate plans FT and Harriss et al had for Southwood (initially the Integrated Timber Processing Centre) it has never materialised to the same extent as the PR push at the time.
And the number of jobs, jobs, jobs was going to be considerable. Made our pollies at the time, and our local Mayor Robert Armstrong along with a number of other Councillors, Cronies and even our friend Georgie look like they were going to save this Valley from doom and gloom.
Mind you, I cannot see that the Biomass project will ever get off the ground. That was doomed for failure from day one, IMV.
Nothing droll for me MJF ... keep it up, but please, for the uneducated like me .. help with some of the acronyms. I’m guessing ETF is “eucalyptus timber fibre” .. which covers both native and plantation sources.
And about your “nonsensical or irrelevant for either of you” .. do tell me Martin, am I now in some sort of “club”? And is that with William and/or Robin - or, please help me, not TGC!Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 11/07/18 at 05:56 PM
No club Swanny.
Overload Willy @#59 finds my comments that way inclined evidently . Now on the basis he is such a fair minded, rational, constructive and unbiased poster then I can only conclude that everyone else finds my comments similarly inclined.
Now I have to make a special effort from here on to turn it around.
ETF = eucalypt tree farm. An older phrase for hardwood plantations.
Should we not then embrace this proposal to allow the Southwood site to realise some of its previously spruiked potential ?
Kind of a late bloomer so to speak.Posted by MjF on 11/07/18 at 10:30 PM
#62 ... Many moons ago I attended a Wesfarmers AGM when the very well respected Michael Chaney was the CEO.
Mr Chaney advised the shareholders that, effective immediately, they were closing down the timber harvesting side of their portfolio.
The Board had come to the conclusion that the timber operation was causing their company too much grief in terms of environmental damage, and that it was greatly affecting their social image and it was diverting their management time away from other more viable and profitable enterprises.
As I recall, their share prices increased following that announcement .. and look at where this great Australian public company is today.
The Integrated Timber Processing Centre (Southwood today) was founded on the concept that unrestrained access to our public forest resources would be ongoing. It was also assumed that either the Liberals or Labor would provide ongoing taxpayer funded assistance .. which of course they have continued to do to this day.
It is now time to stop flogging a dead horse, and time to front up and say “We made a mistake”.
IMV, if Southwood was truly in the hands of private enterprise, and not still being supported by back room deals involving our governments and the likes of John Gay, Paul Harriss and Paul Lennon to name a few, then any intelligent and forward thinking Board of Directors would call it quits and move on to a more viable business model.
It’s twenty years on Martin, and time to say goodbye to pipe dreams.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 12/07/18 at 11:47 AM
#63 ... The truer story with WES is that forestry was not part of their core business, Geoffrey. They thought they’d have a crack at it because everyone else was.
They did it badly and lost a lot of money, hence Chaney’s timely withdrawal and probably just as well.
Their current value level is because they eventually stuck with what they know, successful retailing and manufacturing/production in chemicals, energy and fertilisers.
One might surmise that the supply of gas products and open cut coal mining would also seem less appealing to the conscientious shareholders Geoffrey, but apparently not. Must be making a decent return.
It was only their dirty forestry involvement that fell out of favour it seems.
Many ASX200 companies try different ventures, eventually fail and exit but soldier on successfully anyway, an example being Woolworths with their Masters hardware experiment.
WES had no corporate forestry expertise and got in too late prior to the GFC, an escalating Australian dollar and lack of investment money.
You can put whatever spin on it you like.
Totally different scenario to Neville-Smith which is a successful core timber company.
Let the chipping begin, Geoffrey.
Whether Southwood ever reaches the projected heights of the Harriss era advocacy is immaterial. It’s an established and serviced industrial forestry site with obvious potential to include additional activities.
Bring it on, and Tassal can go jump. Bloody floating cages as far as the eye can see. How’s their share price travelling Geoffrey, despite all their preferential treatment and assistance from the EPA ?
So the current stock price and dividend yield is now the measure of a company’s success .. never mind that plenty of companies are overvalued.Posted by Mjf on 12/07/18 at 03:13 PM
Tasmania grows trees as well as any other place on earth - just do it and then harvest ‘em.
The NIMBY inclined? - Move!Posted by TGC on 13/07/18 at 09:20 AM
#65 ... There is a big difference with Tasmania, Trevor.
The good fortune for this once pristine State is the increasing visitation of newcomers who come with worldly experience, and who know only too well the very real impact and total destruction that industries like Forestry can have on our environment.
People who care more for our environment, than the many who just want to make a fast buck by taking whatever resource out planet has to offer, will be the saving of this State; and hopefully cave dwellers like yourself will eventually come out into the sunlight and be very thankful for the NIMBY attitude.
Just trying to help, Trevor. You and I will be six feet under one day soon, and having been blessed with a clean, green environment for most of our life time, the least we can do is preserve what is left for our children and the generations to follow.
We have no such licence to destroy this planet.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 13/07/18 at 04:15 PM
Whilst I don’t support old growth logging in Tasmania I do support harvesting into the future of current regrowth forests planted for the sole purpose of harvesting for our future needs. We all use paper of some type each and every day/ The majority of us live in timber framed houses, and many people in the Huon region burn wood for heat .. yet there is outrage when a proposal to utilise this resource is put forward.
Do any of you opposing this facility even consider how you rely on this resource now?
I see a great opportunity here to build a world class facility with suitable constraints to ensure it’s environmentally compliant. I see an opportunity to have transport networks created that do not use public roads, and as a result provide a safe outcome for road users.
Without this facility large trucks will share our roads and streets from the Huon Valley through the Tasmanian capital city, and via the Midland Highway to the ports on the northern coast of Tasmania. Is that what’s best for our children and grand children?Posted by Warren L on 15/07/18 at 09:11 PM
#67 ... No.Posted by William Boeder on 15/07/18 at 11:50 PM
#64 ... Martin J Fitch:
You state: “They did it badly and lost a lot of money, hence Chaney’s timely withdrawal and probably just as well.”
FT, now rebranded STT, has the same problem, but as an acolyte and apologist for this bankrupt leech on society, have you been paid not to notice?Posted by John Hawkins on 16/07/18 at 07:23 AM
#69 ... A preposterous suggestion, Hawk.
Couldn’t your time be better spent ?Posted by MjF on 16/07/18 at 09:04 AM
#70 ... MjF, inevitably you again fail to answer the question.Posted by William Boeder on 16/07/18 at 10:12 AM
#67 ... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Warren.
“Without this facility large trucks will share our roads and streets from the Huon Valley through the Tasmanian capital city ...”
With this facility large log trucks will clog our residential roads at up to 180 per day every day of the year carrying the feeder logs through Hobart from the Derwent East region, and from all over South of Hobart through Huonville. Glen Huon, Ranelagh, Bruny, Cygnet, Franklin etc.
The paper myth was once a credible defence, but nowadays our woodchips from our native and plantation forests are also being used to feed large furnaces in China and Europe.
As for building more timber houses .. indeed, bring it on as a sustainable local industry that will bring jobs. No argument. Woodchip however, is a complete failure of our resource.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 16/07/18 at 11:52 AM
#71 ... But I have Willy, many times in the past.
Pay more attention to the written word, is my advice.Posted by Mjf on 16/07/18 at 11:52 AM
Mjf, may I suggest that there is a battered old wooden trunk part buried in the Tasmanian parliamentary grounds that contains over a hundred written State government promises that have since shown themselves to be absolute lies on a scale never thought achievable.
You say to me ‘pay more attention to the written word.’ See below.
My memory goes back to the Edmund Rouse Affair, now that was a huge compendium of words both evil and honest. I recall the name of Robin Grey’s former defence lawyer, a person in the name of Peter Underwood. Now the late former Governor of Tasmania.) He was a man that was able to veer around all the submitted evidence at the trial of those charged in this matter, which had somehow proved to be a successful manoeuvre, thus his client was not in consequence sent to jail.
So as you can see in the above that I have done as you have suggested.
I repeat for your benefit a maxim I have leaned upon a great many times, more-so when I am surrounded by people that tell me “Don’t worry” when I have been surrounded by people who are counter to the best interests of Tasmania and its citizens.
“No amount of wrongs must ever constitute a right.”
Persons who choose to utter false words to support the specious desires of a State government are persons whose words I will forever refuse entry into my mind.
I am currently engaged in revealing another specious State government supported crime against the best interests of Tasmanian citizens, this being the serious matter of State Institutional Financial Elderly Abuse.
There are a fine group of non-government others resident on the mainland who have as yet delayed drafting up a submission to the Federal Attorney General, complete with their substantial files of factual evidence, thus I feel privileged to have been invited to join this group.
I believe this could be a new something for you to engage in that is far above the perpetuating of lies, intended then circulated by others and this State government, to the detriment of the humble citizens of Tasmania.Posted by William Boeder on 16/07/18 at 01:59 PM
#74 ... Quite right Willy, you may suggest that.
Who will ever forget the otherwise unallocated $10 K gift from Rouse? Secreted away in Gray’s sideboard, supposedly intended for the party coffers but retained in the Whispering Bulldozer’s possession for an extended period.
“I’m sorry your honour, I forgot it was there amongst my socks.”
No case could be made by the Crown on this front .. but murky indeed.
Don’t we get on well Willy, when we share a common view ?Posted by Mjf on 16/07/18 at 04:55 PM
#67 ... Warren L is basically right to suggest that by taking large log trucks away from the capital city, and from the haul up the long stretch on the Midland Highway, would result in a far safer public highways without the congestion often associated with larger trucks in general that we see on our roads today that are forced to use routes, many of which were designed 30-50 years ago before trucks were the kings of the road.
Having convoys of log trucks coming all the way down the steep stretch from Vinces Saddle towards the Sandfly Road crossing, as well as the next steep stretch from Mt Nelson down to the city, requires not only a well maintained modern prime mover with an efficient trailer system, but also a driver who is not fatigued and who remains alert at all times during multiple traffic conditions wherein movement can be hampered by extreme weather conditions. For example, black ice on the road during winter. It’s occurrence is often most difficult to detect on most road surfaces.
Overall the Dover loading facility at this point in time makes the best sense.
#72 ... Geoffrey, there is little point in you continuing unless you are prepared to show some interest in providing a roading transport solution, as the volume of Southern unpruned plantation wood is now coming on stream while the chip-wood market remains buoyant, and will be required to be shifted onto the market place!
The State government needs to make inroads with solutions to improve traffic flow, with its main arterial roads coming in towards the city from the Eastern Outlet, as well as a long term solution for a bypass behind the city as part of dealing with increasing road traffic from private vehicles up to multiple heavy haulage units.
That is the way the world is moving, therefore it needs to be dealt with to meet with the expectation of high standards of safe public movement on roads and highways.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 16/07/18 at 10:43 PM
Too right, Halton.
Now we have the absurd suggestion that the tree growers might leave their wood in the ground in perpetuity to appease “The Newcomers”, their new visions and their requirement for no disturbance whilst enjoying their latest Shangri la which is code for coming to VDL because it’s cheap living, and we can make a motza out of selling our north island properties.
Now we gonna target the inbred local bastards to do it our way .. cause we know better and we think we’re superior people.
There’s some serious social issues emerging here RCH. It’s gone well beyond simply mowing trees down.Posted by MjF on 17/07/18 at 09:18 AM
There is no doubt that the linking up of a combined plan for both forestry roads and public roads needs to take place, initially to facilitate access to Southwood for chipping, then transport in large bin trailers to the Southern woodchip export facility to be located at Dover.
There is no doubt that road access planning will involve the upgrading of existing roads within forested areas in the Southern region.
I am looking forward to peruse an anticipated roading network plan, when available, as I am particularly keen to note upgrading works for bringing wood south from the lower reaches of the Central Highlands / Upper Derwent Valley across a much improved Lanes Road/ Plenty Link Road towards Southwood via the Russell River area.
I doubt is Geoffrey at #72 has the slightest idea of what could be the case, as so far he has only gone on the attack for the entire project with alarming predictions of road traffic crowding on public roads before any prescribed plan is in place.
The Hodgman government has to play its role too, by keeping its finger on the pulse with NSP to keep the deniers in their place!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 17/07/18 at 09:39 AM
Robin, what you and your clique must realise is that the State of Tasmania need not be based around the whims of opportune, inexpensive, easily accessed forest for logging entrepreneurs in order for them to make their plenty.
All this nonsense you speak of was set in place for Gunns Ltd by Bacon and Lennon .. so tell me, what good does this provide for the people of Tasmania?Posted by William Boeder on 17/07/18 at 10:52 AM
#77 and #78 ... Robin and Martin, you guys do make me laugh.
I was going to suggest that you must be members of the Flat Earth Society, but then after looking at their website which states ” This is the home of the world-famous Flat Earth Society, a place for free thinkers and the intellectual exchange of ideas… then I think No, that does not sound you like you guys.
I feel a more accurate description may simply be jaded ex-forestry workers who just keep flogging a dead horse, and who are not prepared to consider any other options other than the old slash and burn mentality. And if anyone disagrees with your outdated thinking, just blame the newcomers.
By the way MJF, what do we call you, one who perhaps was born or once lived in this Island State and now resides elsewhere ... but still connects with Tasmanian Times? Outlander perhaps?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 17/07/18 at 02:16 PM
The Newcomers…isn’t there a movie by that name ?
You make me chortle a little too Geoffrey
Do you really believe European industries are buying Tasmanian woodchips to fuel their furnaces ?
Another Wilderness Society scoop I suppose, revealed at the community talkfests.
Are we seriously the closest and cheapest source of biofuel to Europe ?
If Vica Bayley told you to back flip off the Huonville Bridge, I’m inclined to think you’d go for it. Because vica said.
Can we please get this facility built, prune Tassals lease area by 60% to get it happening and get the chips loaded. How drawn out does this have to be ? Oh yeah, mandate compulsory chlorination of ballast water regardless of ships age and registry. Then we’re good.
Foreign drivers - keep to the left at all times, beware of large vehicles and the disconsolate, frowning elite who didn’t get their own way.Posted by Mjf on 17/07/18 at 04:11 PM
#78 ... I cannot let you get away with your comment Robin, and let me repeat it here ...
“I doubt is Geoffrey at #72 has the slightest idea of what could be the case, as so far he has only gone on the attack for the entire project with alarming predictions of road traffic crowding on public roads before any prescribed plan is in place.”
Given your apparent wealth of knowledge in all things forestry and transport Robin, please offer us your sage advice on how is it possible to cart 800,000 tonnes of feeder logs from all over Southern Tasmania, Derwent West and Derwent East, without having to use public roads such as I advised Warren at #72.
I remind you that James Neville-Smith has refused to detail the feeder log transport, despite many requests.
Simply do the sums Robin, divide 800,000 tonnes by a 36 tonne truck load. Divide that number by 48 weeks of the year of a 6 day a week and 10 hours a day and “bingo” the number is 7.71 loaded trucks per hour.
Therefore 15 trucks per hour traveling loaded and unloaded, 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 48 weeks of the year. FACT. Much worse if a smaller truck load. Slightly better if they work 24/7 around the clock 7 days a week.
What else do I need to say to you Robin, for you (and Martin) to comprehend the impact this project will have on our road system. There are no hidden roads on route to Southwood Mill. This was an issue back in 2006 when FT were looking at road options to Southwood. They even considered using barges on the Huon River but that failed because they could not fit under the Huonville Bridge.
Do please surprise me Robin, with your wisdom to solve this huge dilemma.
And I repeat .. the issue of transporting feeder logs to meet an intensive shipping regime of 800,000 tonnes per year will change the face of the Huon Valley and beyond. No scaremongering on my part .. simply a disastrous plan by JNS .. though no longer given he has just sold out to Reliance Forest Fibre.
I guess it will soon be their problem, but then with the support of their parent company, Global Forest Partners who have very deep pockets with a reported $US 3.1 billion invested in their timber plantations all over the world and offshore accounts in the Cayman Islands, who knows what money and power can do to this little island state?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 17/07/18 at 04:40 PM
#81 ... In my “much” younger days Martin, I was damn good at diving and back flips. If it wasn’t for a sign on the Huonville Bridge that clearly says no jumping and no diving ... well, you will never know.
And there’s no need for a follow up comment on my propensity to abide by the law. I am perhaps a little too anal in that regard and need to loosen up a little. I was only recently publicly castigated for suggesting there are some folk who live in the South of Tasmania who I would describe as “Pot Smoking Ferals”.
Oh dear, far too blunt for some PC folk who took offence at my comment.
By the way, I am guessing you “older” TT commentators still get a TT prompt to say someone has commented against your post. This facility is no longer available to “Newcomers” like me. I have to go searching to see if there have been any updates ... so if I am ever tardy in a response it may simply be because I’m unaware.
But there does ultimately come a time when enough has been said .. and when it is obvious that no one is listening.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 17/07/18 at 05:32 PM
Apparently not responding to my fair and reasonable questions I have submitted to both Mjf and RCH via this excellent forum, seems to be a serial failing of both Mjf and RCH. Either my questions are in the too hard basket or that they will diminish their personal credibility standing. It seems to me each of these 2 persons is facing off against the State’s people via their advocating for the increased encroachment into Tasmania’s Crown Land native forests, which will see the eager State government approvals that will ignore their ever onward slaughter of Tasmania’s forest-dwelling indigenous wildlife.
The Hardwood Plantation log-supply will only continue for an unspecified but limited period of time, then as will happen, as usual, Guy “the zombie smiler” Barnett will approve the State’s government desire to be given access to enable further encroachment into what are currently considered to be native wildlife reserves ... per his uncaring resources depleting ignorance thereto. It grieves me that this irresponsible government has still not provided any major job creation process, other than the ramping-up of the destructive logging industry in which they themselves are the fiercest proponents.
One soon realizes that the increased logging in this small Island State seems to be the best one can expect from a Liberal party leadership.
Can attendees to this forum please offer any supportive comment to alert me of any particular job creative scheme that the State’s Liberal party have themselves set into successful motion? Being this was their slogan of promise in the beginnings of their initial electioneering to become the State’s better economy advancing political party, as well as they becoming the job-creation marvellest achievers for Tasmania’s futures?
The Liberal party advertising strategy of today is their streaming through Youtube that offers little other than the political parties Labor and Greens are bad for Tasmania. I beg to differ based on the Liberal party ramped-up logging enthusiasms, there is no performance of other since they had originally purchased and had misled their way into this State’s leadership party.Posted by William Boeder on 17/07/18 at 06:43 PM
#82, Geoffrey ... I would imagine leading up to NSP’s overall plan becoming available for the public it would include some advance roading being either new construction or upgrading which should be advantageous to multiple users, whether it be on everyday public roads or the forestry roads.
The Dover development should bring forward employment and new business with servicing opportunities for the Southern region.
The Bob Brown Foundation won’t have a hope of what it amounts to preventing virtually all forestry activity in Tasmania.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 17/07/18 at 11:11 PM
#82 ... Re warning signs on bridge, my point exactly as an unwavering disciple of green propaganda.
Agree, let’s await the next public announcement re JNS.Posted by Mjf on 18/07/18 at 09:41 AM
#78 ... Robin, you are doing it yet again. As with other TT articles, when the going gets tough you simply fade away and don’t respond to the questions.
William at #83 is correct ... your lack of response is a serial failing.
C’mon Robin, do please inform our TT readers where these mystical roads are that will mean 800 feeder log trucks carrying 36 tonnes of logs on route to Southwood over 48 weeks of the year will travel, so as to have no impact on residential roads.
There are none, and you know it. It will be utter bedlam in down-town Huonville and our surrounding towns, and the Hobart CBD, too.
What we are struggling with here in this Valley Robin, is the old school thinking that the likes of the now deceased patriarch Alan Duggan espoused for far too long, and the same of George Harris .. members of the antiquated Huon Resources Group, IMV.
Take 15 minutes to listen to Mr Neville Bennet, a 5th generation forester and another member clinging to the outdated philosophies of the Huon Resources Group.
Here is our real issue: Mr Bennet makes numerous comments that are completely false and misunderstood by himself. His thinking is clouded by days gone by when hard-working forestry men camped in the bush for weeks on end, and selectively felled trees.
There are so many comments made by Mr Bennet, as a representative of the HSG, that are simply wrong.
Where are you, Georgie?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 18/07/18 at 03:43 PM
#86 Geoffrey, there is nothing further that I can do to discuss the Dover development any further with either you or William!
I support the development proposal as a means of having a southern port to export woodchip quality (unpruned) HWP from existing plantations within the south of the State.
Neither am I answering to any of your attack dog comments directed at local business organisations and their members!
There is no doubt when the NSP proposal goes ahead business and community would benefit, we may even see a new pub rebuild at Dover as well as welcoming newcomers to the region.
You are well and truly on the outer regarding local affairs and likely to remain as such!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 18/07/18 at 10:50 PM
#87 ... I will add a few words as my name appears in your comment ...
Your mindset is related to the people that both you and MjF prefer to live amongst, namely those who endorse, and seek to satisfy, their bash-burn-clear-felling logging-centric minds.Posted by William Boeder on 19/07/18 at 01:32 AM
#88 ... I feel sorry for you William, as you just cant seem to grasp forestry .. full stop!
We have been through this together for at least the current decade, but you are not on board at all!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 19/07/18 at 09:46 AM
#86 ... Thanks Swanny, for providing podcast link. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Nev rattle on. I could listen to these old buggers for hours. The host certainly had an easy 15. Admittedly he’s not that polished an orator and tends to digress regularly but hey, cut the man some slack, he must be in his 70’s .. or possibly older ?
All power to him to put forward his views and I think it not unreasonable to believe the interview became less about HRG’s agenda and more about Neville’s personal recollections. I agree his point made several times re the project not being at Dover is splitting hairs.
Interestingly though he raised the issue of international shipping visiting the area for years (for fruit and wood pellet cargoes) and apparently with no introduction/establishment of invasive exotic pests re ballast water and hull contamination. This was the theme of my query to Arthur Clarke recently, about which I haven’t noticed a response. I’d better check again now.
What about the invasive marine pests long established in the estuary/river .. but nobody’s noticed yet ? I imagine Tassal would be publicly across this, if so.
Thank you Neville Bennett, for an entertaining 15 minutes.Posted by MjF on 19/07/18 at 10:12 AM
#89 ... Quite true Robin. I note that you are still pushing the same wheelbarrow of wood-chips this past decade or more. Calling 80%-90% of a former coupe area as harvesting waste, or logging debris, or some other non-descriptive that ultimately end up being trucked as logs to the wood-chippers is not my idea of an ethical progressive business strategy.
Robin, are you able to explain to me why so many STT trees bulldozed and burnt this past 30 odd year when they were in their infancy (particularly throughout the Lennon-John Gay Gunns era) today they would present as an interesting presentation of what good common sense there proved to be in the minds of the old timber getters of long times past?
How about the indigenous wildlife slaughter that became the collateral deaths as a by-product of the complete razing of all flora to ground Earth, or a fire put through to clean up the remnants of the removed limbs saplings etc?
All of that above determination to drop the whole coupe may make some kind of sense to yourself .. but not for me, thankyou.
If this is called and accepted as good Crown Land forest management, then that in itself is little more than a plan for the annihilation for the entire of the coupe area. So after my observing this same old same for the past 16 years, how am I supposed to say Ah, yeah, Oh Well, let it all continue, it’s madness being directed into my ears and brain-box.
Can you describe to me an ethical business activity with such a high level of material waste that can claim itself clever as in being so unsustainable?
To expect me to roll over and listen to people who choose to say Ah well, just get over it, is not the answer.
Unfortunately no Robin, I do not have my head filled with rock materials until my head grows its own rocks. That would be the day I agree with you and your fellow log-it-all thinkers.Posted by William Boeder on 19/07/18 at 11:34 AM
#87 ... Not good enough, Robin.
You are still not able to answer the question that you have tackled me on. Can you possibly explain to me how anyone, NSP or whoever, will be able to transport 800,000 tonnes of feeder log timber, from across Southern Tasmania to the Southwood Mill, without travelling on sealed and unsealed residential roads at a rate of 180 trucks per day?
Please do not therefore make your accusing comments to me on this matter unless you are able to provide an alternate option.
#90 ... I would think closer to 80, and I do agree, interesting stories in Neville’s generation, and to be respected for the very hard work of his forefathers and himself. My father worked in the coal mines, Neville camped out in the bush and logged trees - both men worked far harder and more physically than I ever have.
However, there comes a time when change is in order, not always for the better but necessary for a variety of reasons. It is now that the thinking of people like the Huon Resources Development Group needs to adapt to today’s thinking.
There is no place for a Biomass furnace. There are other options to woodchip that must be explored. And in Neville’s own confusion he correctly stated that all the logs on the trucks are full of carbon. I am only guessing he was thinking it will now escape and cause more climate change issues.
It was me who spoke at the town hall meeting about the carbon dioxide exhaust from all the trucks (not Vica as Neville thought) and I spoke of the toxins as I have previously explained on TT. I also said an option to harvesting is to leave the trees in the ground to capture the carbon and help our global warming issues.
At one of the meetings Neville spoke up, almost shouting about newcomers bringing change etc. He was not prepared to listen to any other point of view.
This is why we need to communicate options and facts in the hope that we can all get to a position of agreed change for the better for everyone.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 19/07/18 at 01:57 PM
#90 ... Geoffrey Swan, well said.
Tasmania is replete with persons of the same indifference to change as it enters into these people’s too hard baskets.
To suggest that the former Forestry Tasmania practices and purposes were good sustainable forest management strategies is an exercise in futility, same goes for STT. One would expect an intelligent state government would have realised this 20 years or more years ago. Suffice to say that this state has not hosted intelligent government for those past 20 years.
There was room for a building industry logging operation in former times, but there’s barely the bones of such an operation today.
Forestry selective harvested log operations, as are practiced throughout Europe, are truly the best method of harvesting timber today.
Frank Strie has been telling all you persons that are struck with the clear-felling-mania, that you’re pushing excrement uphill.
With Ta Ann and wood-chipping being all the rage nowadays, this is exactly what is destroying the prospect of ever having a sustainable logging operation in Tasmania.Posted by William Boeder on 19/07/18 at 02:52 PM
Damn. Aunty May’s got a pearl handled pocket knife.
I’ve gone against my better judgement #85.
Can we crack the 100 again ?
#92 ... Halton can’t answer how Huonville will survive being the epicentre of truck movements, and how the onslaught of wood will avoid public sealed roads because clearly such roads and that town et al will be impacted.
How many trucks roll through Huonville daily now ?
It’s the only valid concern you have Geoffrey, and I wish the proponent would add something constructive to the debate to bring it to a conclusion in terms of proposed truck routes and associated impacts.
As I’ve stated off line, I’m very dubious re the 800 k ,but this seems to be the maximum official number to base calculations on. I understand there’s a considerably lower start up volume projected but with a progressive ramp up.Posted by Mjf on 19/07/18 at 04:05 PM
#92 ... Geoffrey, your wild speculation on truck numbers, routes and your accounts of disastrous traffic events is not shared by others!
Let the case for the NSP HWP resource extraction and processing development evolve before you continue to agitate business like forestry activities by creating your brand of fireworks among the locals.
Get used to it. You asked for it and hopefully you are simply being ignored. Take a cold shower!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 19/07/18 at 06:23 PM
#94, MJF ... It will be worth constructing a decent US style roadhouse for truckies after removing some of old broken down cafes and houses along the northern drag into Huonville.
A big attraction for one bloke that I know of would be the pizzas, 24/7.
As I repeatedly said, the NSP enterprise will bring extra business opportunities for Huonville, Port Huon/ Kermandie, and especially for Dover.
NSP may even allow a trustworthy local to set up a food van at Southwood, too!
Inclusive of the development there will be a requirement for an engineering workshop somewhere along the route for urgent and routine maintenance for those trucks required to work 24/7 !
I would expect that the business spin-offs will be great .. with a new Huon Valley Council to be elected soon with a sense of renewal, and a new pub investment for Dover after the old one burnt down a few years ago.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 20/07/18 at 08:27 AM
Quite agree RCH. Just what the joint needs .. a good old Aussie truck stop or two, greasy tucker, neon signage and a rodeo ground out the back.
Get away from all this new age, green Eco friendly, double decaf mocha, bring your own cup cafe bullshit. Who wants bloody wheat grass juice ? My god.
Let’s return the flouro-wearing workers to their rightful place in the pecking order. They have been suppressed and walked over for far too long.
I can feel the movement. What about James N-S as a mayoral candidate ?Posted by MjF on 20/07/18 at 10:43 AM
#94 ...100 not out, Martin .. here we come.
HVC at a meeting this week advised State Growth is about to do an intensive survey of traffic down Main Road Huonville, as counted by trucks, RV’s etc, and passenger cars. Council’s comment is everyone be very surprised at the huge volume.
And this is before we face the potential issue of a log truck every 5 to 10 minutes.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 20/07/18 at 11:03 AM
#95 ... Robin, I cannot understand why this has become so personal and attacking. I am merely sharing and expanding on the information we have to hand at this time.
I have no idea how many “others” don’t share my views apart from yourself Robin, and the only person who appears to be ignoring me is you.
Once again, please read my post at #86, then get out your calculator and tell us all how it will be possible to carry 800,000 tonne of feeder logs (or let’s say 500,000 tonnes to keep Martin happy for now) WITHOUT traveling across residential sealed and unsealed roads on route to Southwood.
This is not wild speculation. It is an absolute fact that if this project is allowed to go ahead there will be an unprecedented impact to our roads, our communities, and our health.
I am presenting about this tonight at a fundraiser event at the local D&S Cafe in Huonville, 6pm - 8pm. $30 per head. Please come along and you can have your say.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 20/07/18 at 11:14 AM
#99 ... $30 per head is quite steep. What would one get for that fee ?Posted by Mjf on 20/07/18 at 01:24 PM
#100, MJF ... Congratulations for hitting the #100 mark, you beat me by a few minutes!
Probably all you will get will be Geoffrey waffling on about his unique maths calculations to blindfold any public debate beyond his driven thinking on trucking movements! He is unlikely to veer from his strong personal opinions!
Sit him a high perch with a notebook on the Huonville bridge and throw him up a pizza now and again, and he will feel like as if he is a local hero as the heavy traffic rolls past!
Geoffrey is already completely biased to the removal of RFF’s wood, 29,000 ha of unpruned HWP paid for at $60.7 M.
Geoffrey at #92 is biased towards wood removal when he stated the trees could stay in the ground for carbon capture! I am sure that RFF as a global business has already engaged itself in more than enough risk with their $60.7 M purchase here in Tasmania
A return on the timely sale of the wood is essential soon, as this is not some sort of speculative game based on Geoffrey’s rather amateurish eco-approach to the global export wood chip business.
If Geoffrey was really on the ball as the convenor tonight, he would be asking RFF, the State Government and Southern local Councils to support / fund essential road upgrades throughout the region to facilitate already increased numbers of vehicular traffic.
It’s a fact of life that trucks are the kings of the road with all forms of heavy transport however it seems there is much more work to be done to open up the Plenty Valley Link road network between the Huon Valley and the Derwent valley, and a major state-of-the-art roading bypass behind Hobart that further assists heavy traffic coming from the Southern Outlet by not having to enter Hobart’s CBD.
Thanks for the offer Geoffrey, but I won’t be coming tonight as as it seems that a lot more research needs to be done to cover the project more widely!
A deal for better roading networks, inclusive of forestry roads and public residential road and highways, would be a start!Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 20/07/18 at 02:49 PM
#100 ... We had a full house Martin, and for $30 it was a three course feast with a video, a couple of presentations and some fund raising. I’m just home from a good night out despite the wet and cold. It’s a cold time of year in the far South to attempt a fund raising event, but we are all the better for it.
Robin did not venture down from his lofty heights in Sandy Bay, and I’m not sure I can be bothered to respond to his barrage at #101. I am thinking he is unable or unwilling to use a calculator to see for himself how many truck movements are required to transport 500,000 or 800,000 tonnes of timber per year down to Southwood.
As for lobbying our government for better roads .. that sure ain’t going to happen. Just look at the Midlands’ highway plans. Besides, what government is going to spend more money on the loss making enterprise of low value woodchip?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 20/07/18 at 09:50 PM
#101 ... I’m not inclined at this time of night to respond to your nonsense, Robin.
However, I do want to let you know the next big event to happen in down-town Huonville will be at 6pm on Tuesday 24th July. The HVC is anticipating hundreds of people following the recent Petition which collected some 1,300 signatures. More here: https://www.huonvalley.tas.gov.au/notice-public-meeting/
Here is another opportunity for you to have your say Robin, (or Martin). Submissions close at midnight Saturday 21st July. Come on down Robin, bring your Kombi Van down to the Valley, and perhaps even consider a meal at the local Chinese. It’s not as good as at New Norfolk, but it’s a pretty good meal just the same.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 20/07/18 at 09:56 PM
#103 ... Three courses, you say ?
That does’t sound too bad a value then. And a video. A good evening had by all. Your last question is pretty much rhetorical, I think.
One thing you can be assured of Geoffrey, is no one will be making a loss on any plantation chips going to the Stringers Creek’ facility. The ‘loss’ aspect of these plantations is ancient history, although I cannot possibly imagine how you could spend up to $50 k per ha establishing plantations while not even having to secure the land. This is what Pete Godfrey has suggested elsewhere.
Chips still bound for European furnaces, are they ? Still a saving of $30 per tonne GMT (my guess at the correct units) ? I ask this on account of wondering if the green lies peddled at the community meetings are consistent, or whether they are changed up from venue to venue .Posted by MjF on 21/07/18 at 11:09 AM
#102. Geoffrey, may I offer a correction to a portion of your comment?
This correction may not please the authors of #101 & 104.
Well here goes anyway; we do have a State government in current leadership that will subsidize a Crown Land forest destructive industry (counter to the statutes applicable to all this State’s GBE’s though not necessarily applicable to an end product of a Forestry Tasmania GBE that engaged in the wood-chip industry to sell Crown Land assets being logs provided to various others as well as assisting with the dealings of bastard wood-chips.)
The former Premier’s Bacon and Lennon and then those Premiers forward from this era were in the habit of ensuring the granting of State taxpayer-funded (unlimited?) Millions of dollars per annum, to enable this particular loss-making State GBE to claim its liquidity despite its outrageous losses.
These corrections that I speak of here can be found in abundance on Google, particularly in the Profit and Loss statements from each former annual published AGM documents.
In times prior the State government as well as one of Tasmania’s most bemedalled corporate directors (I speak here of a gentleman in the name of Miles Hampton) a former Forestry Tasmania chairman where it has been alleged by a number of this State’s citizens in seeking an accurate verification to the below claimed;
how could it be possible that a University educated person with an accountant’s law degree (who had risen to the heights of being a favoured director across many of this State’s statute-enforced profit-generating businesses) when this same gentleman could not provide the truth or falsity-of-truth facts that he was charged with ensuring, that this GBE’s auditors were provided with a legal claim that Forestry Tasmania had established among its numerous assets (yet without a title attesting to same) that it was the owner of the trees in our State’s Crown Land forests.
(As a byeline to the above matter, this same director was presented with a gold medal for his excellence as a director, by the Former State Governor Mr Peter Underwood.)
Sorry to interfere with your comment Geoffrey.
There has been a history of deeply held arguably controversial claims and statements that had issued from this State’s government stakeholder ministers that would certainly be challengeable in a special jurisdiction law court.
Yet I must remain mindful of the publicly expressed claim by this late honoured gentleman, that corruption simply did not and does not exist in Tasmania.Posted by William Boeder on 21/07/18 at 12:58 PM
#104 ... Same message across all our public meetings, Martin. Everyone to my understanding is on the same page with this battle. Until JNS or others are prepared to offer alternative information, then our story lives on.
The problem the Huon Valley now faces is the might of Global Forest Partners and Reliance Forest Fibre. Together they make JNS look like small fry.
No one is denying anyone the right to turn a profit from any investment. But there does come a time, IMV, when the realisation that MIS plantation schemes may not have been the best decision. With FT losing a potential of $150 M on their fire sale to RFF at $60.7 M it is all downhill from there. The time to think smarter is never more urgent than now, and leaving the E Nitens in the ground for another 10 years may well be a better option than cutting their losses and choosing woodchip now.
As a grass-roots body of people, our biggest obstacle is getting the word out about the potential impacts of an industrial scale logging project. This takes time, money we do not have, and huge emotional motivation.
Hopefully there are many other readers of TT, apart from Robin Halton and Trevor Cowell, who do actually read, consider and then agree or disagree .. but for their own reasons choose to remain silent.
The best any of us can do is to drill down to the facts, spread the word, and say it like it is.
Last night we covered our costs and put some more funds into our fighting account. Engaging legal advice and planning consultants, letter box drops and posters all costs us money. Thanks to Linz, TT is a free democratic resource that has great reach, and IMV it has far more credibility that the many social media platforms out there, including Google.
We welcome any financial contribution at any time. I’m happy to pass on a BSB/Acc details to anyone.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 21/07/18 at 01:12 PM
#106, Geoffrey ... No need to go “butchers hook” at me as I am only trying to provide some worthwhile suggestions by not blocking the path of progress in looking for a positive outcome for what could be a potentially outstanding project for HV!
Presumably you are speaking on behalf of “Save our South” .. although I may have misread your involvement as an independent objector based on your own log traffic calculations!
Then give me a go, as I understand the concerns of SoS and it is reasonable they be answered, hopefully in a professional and convincing manner! I have never suggested otherwise!
By the way, there is nothing to stop me, or anyone from the general public, lobbying for better rural road connections .. and so on!
The Midland Highway is a separate reconstruction and funding issue, one that’s altogether distinct from what could be required for HV and DV links to facilitate increased heavy haulage.
I noted recently the Mayor of NN, and acting adjudicator for HVC Adriana Taylor, photographed in the Mercury surmising about the opening of the Crabtree-Lachlan track proposed to be opened as a fire-line access and gated at each end.
Possibly, with a more driven proposal, the route could be opened to light traffic only to extend tourism opportunities by linking the two valleys!
In reply #106 to Martin you suggested leaving the E nitens in the ground for another 10 years etc. Anyone (usually foresters having silvicultural experience) already knows that thinning / clear-felling is a timely issue as annual yield will decrease dramatically by stem crowding which is a legitimate concern for a forest owner who is looking for maximum yield.
From the business point of view an alternative market for unpruned E nitens is unlikely because of its adverse wood properties for other than the Pulp-mill feedstock, that is, chip-wood.
The other important point to remember is the woodchip market for Australian product is currently buoyant, and that may have been a part of an important decision by RFF to go NOW for the Southern harvest by using a southern-based export facility.
Be warned, woodchipping can also be of a cyclic nature caught up with supply chain, production, political, reliability and costs issues.
For a while, Euro-centric FSC was the big issue no longer, as China as an end processor couldn’t give a stuff about the FSC approved bullshit. Australian standards are good enough .. and so they should be!
RFF has made its “plunge” and invested in the standing trees only with a commitment to replant areas harvested, so I would reckon it would have duly paid for its investment here in little Tasmania. Then they will be desperate for a making a return asap otherwise by continuing with log cartage up north as normal!
Thanks for notification of HVC meeting on Tuesday Night 24th July. That should be the best opportunity for the public at large to be notified officially at what stage the project is currently at!
I look forward to the media release and comments!
Cheers for now from RCHPosted by Robin Charles Halton on 22/07/18 at 01:52 AM
#106 ... Why has the imagined enemy base expanded so for the Deep South Geoffrey ?
All Global (through their shelf company RFF) own down your way is a bunch of plantation trees scattered through the southeast on State Forest with an associated 99 year lease to do with whatever they like. Why are they now a problem for the Huon Valley ? In reality they are just another neighbour to some of the outlying residents.
As I understand it, Southwood Fibre is the project you oppose so vehemently, and which is being promoted by the Neville-Smith business which is quite separate. Please confirm.
I do not understand your unfounded fears of Global Forest Partners. They’re an investment fund trying to make a return for their members. I don’t see why they have now become public enemy No. 2.Posted by Mjf on 22/07/18 at 10:39 AM
Come now Robin and Martin, any wood-chip deals and or matters to do with logging in this State will invariably imperil Crown Land forest log supplies quite soon or in the foreseeable futures, don’t think for one moment that these big players you have mentioned will be satisfied with just whatever plantation stock they may be given access to.
Guy Barnett (with his David Llewellyn-ian mindset) will sign off any amount of Crown Land forest resources to make himself and the Liberal government appear as their best mates and expect something kind in return.
I will leave you to discuss this with Eric Abetz, he is usually on the inside of personal opportunity.
Business deals in Tasmania that involve the degradation of large swathes of Tasmania’s native forests are generally made available, inevitably all the usual culprits will be involved in this sort of shake-down. Historically this has occurred whether you are prepared to admit it or not, matters little, something here about Leopards, their spots, then their retention of same.
As for Mr. Gung-ho Halton, surely you must be mindful of the history of State government capitulation to any new predator seeking entry into this State’s dwindling forest reserves?
Speak not of Pie-carts and Pizza shops Robin considering you care not for what amount of Tasmania’s forests goes up in smoke or wherever.Posted by William Boeder on 22/07/18 at 11:46 AM
#107 ... By “butchers hook” are you suggesting I am hanging you out to dry, Robin? Perhaps in a way I guess I am. I have repeatedly asked you to do your own calculations in dividing 36 tonne truck loads of feeder logs into an annual 800,000 tonnes over 48 weeks of the year. If you do that you will arrive at 192 trucks per day traveling on residential roads across Southern Tasmania to and from the Southwood Mill in Lonnavale.
If you actually bother to do the simple maths you will realise I am not at all exaggerating in my claims of unprecedented log truck traffic from as far North as Derwent East (through Hobart) and Derwent West (through Plenty Link Road) and anywhere South of Hobart down to Southwood Mill.
And, as I have been repeating ad nauseam, the only roads to Southwood for the feeder logs are Main Road Huonville, Glen Huon Road, Judbury Road and North Huon Road. There are no other road options (apart from the Plenty Link Road).
Now to correct some of your comments, with respect.
I am not a member of the Save our South committee. My personal and independent interest in this proposal was sparked when I attended the only public meeting at which the proponents have been prepared to speak back in December, 2017. JNS advised us that underpinning this proposal is the fact that no woodchip trucks will travel past any residential houses or businesses en route to the Dover facility, because they will use existing forestry roads.
This may be correct for woodchip.
It is however a blatantly disingenuous comment with respect to the overall proposal. JNS has conveniently refused to speak about the same quantity or more of feeder log trucks that will severally impact Southern Tasmania. This is an absolute fact, Robin.
Yes, I’m fully aware of Jeffrey’s track developments .. but this is not significant to this debate. And by all means lobby to your heart’s content for more roads and better roads. Best of luck with that one.
E. Nitens is a whole other discussion. You and I both know that there are other options. It’s not too late to trim and prune. They can, and will, grow into better options. Danny Peet suggested this proposal was within the next 5 years .. but who knows what the woodchip price will be then? And again, for the sake of our planet and global warming, it may be far more prudent to leave them in the ground and be compensated for doing so. What price will our Pacific Islands place on their survival from rising tides?
And importantly, since I can only assume you did not fully explore the HVC website link about the Town Hall meeting on Tuesday, this is not about being updated on the proposal. This is about a 1,300 signature petition presented to Council about the woodchip proposal. Because of the number of signatures the HVC is bound by law to hold a Town Hall meeting. Many attendees will be reading out their submissions and calling motions. The HVC is unable to discuss the DA because it is not as yet a “live” DA. Neither Commissioner Taylor, or GM Emilio Reale, or any other staff member are able to comment on this proposal. There will be no updates, Robin.
What it does mean however, is that ALL the submissions will be recorded in Council minutes and be available for public viewing. Therefore, if and when the DA becomes live, there will be a ready list of information available to allow respondents to participate in the 28 day submission period. And, as has happened on at least one other occasion with the HVC, it is highly possible this DA may be advertised over the Christmas and New Year holiday period in order to limit community participation.
We are fighting a battle of survival for the Huon Valley and Southern Tasmania, Robin.
Now that Reliance Forest Fibre have purchased Southwood Fibre in the past week, have the goal posts now been moved?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 22/07/18 at 11:46 AM
#108 ... Surely I am not barking up the wrong tree, Martin.
Now that RFF has purchased Southwood Fibre (in the last 10 days) JNS walks away (with a pocket full of gold for his troubles ...?) and so we are now dealing with a US based consortium with no other interest than shareholder profits. At least JNS was spruiking jobs, jobs, jobs. I am sure we will not see RFF being overly concerned about jobs, or how they treat the Far South of this island State.
Just follow the timeline Martin, and it all becomes very clear.
Southwood Fibre Pty Ltd was established in May 2017 with directors James Neville-Smith, Richard Neville-Smith and Gareth Atkins.
Reliance Forest Fibre established July 2017 with Phil Stelling, Australian Director, at Global Forest Partners. Peter C. Mertz, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Founding Partner GFP, Michael J. McFetridge, GFP both based in the US.
September 2017, and our resources Minister Guy Barnett spruiked the $60.7 million sale of 29,000 hectares of hardwood plantations to Reliance Forest Fibre as a deal that will allow Sustainable Timber Tasmania to become debt-free, and commercially viable, while also promoting local jobs.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 22/07/18 at 12:28 PM
Willy, you in another creative mindset today ?
Reality check Geoffrey.
RFF bought the ex NSFP chipping & export operation subsidiary (Smartfibre) @ bell bay on the Tamar back in March.
This is not the Southwood Fibre proposal @ Port Esperance
Have GFP/RFF taken over the Southwood Fibre project Geoffrey to the best of your knowledge ? Yes or No.
I suggest you stop jumping at shadows. For someone who admits to not understanding the Forestry business you certainly don’t need very much information to take a most vocal position.
Some simple style points that would ease Tasmanian Times’ editing workload ...
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We don’t expect perfection, but we appreciate it if you can tweak your Comment at your end, rather than rely on Tasmanian Times to do it.
NB: Comments that are submitted with careless spelling, punctuation and presentation risk immediate, irreversible deletion.
——————————————————————————-o0o————————————————————————-Posted by MjF on 22/07/18 at 02:40 PM
#112 ... MjF, not necessarily a creative mindset but more of a long-term observation of how you have been an advocate of (a non-beneficial to the people of Tasmania) denuding the landscapes of Tasmania and its related major reduction in the numbers of the species of indigenous wildlife in this State, by the yokels of and proponents of logging the bejesus out of Tasmania.
You must understand that I am influenced by the evils that have and still do issue from this wanton logging in our Crown Land Forests, mainly to the benefit of Ta Ann and the persons that seek to make their fortune from bastard wood-chipping in this relatively small Island of Tasmania.
I had earlier today sent a missive to Tasmania’s least State patriotic Senator (yes he is that Liberal party Senator) to remind him of his past nefarious relationship with persons in the State of Sarawak Malaysia.
One must never lose sight of the past occasions of deception that have been foisted upon the Tasmanian citizens by persons and their past engagements in matters of ulterior purpose and stealth undertakings, then that these persons must not be allowed to escape their prior sinister undertakings in this State of Tasmania.
A recent comment I had submitted made mention of one of Tasmania’s untouchables, in the name of Miles Hampton. Just another who engages in one’s ill-intended purposes to the detriment of the common people and generally to the State to of Tasmania itself.
I find more satisfaction in my comments that deal with fact rather than the spurious activities historically and up to the present time, that relate specifically to the State government ministers and their non-government cahoots that are complicit in the failing proper governance of Tasmania.Posted by William Boeder on 22/07/18 at 04:12 PM
Too many Fibres, Martin. I appear a tad confused. Don’t need to rub it in about my lack of forestry knowledge. I am trying.
Are you suggesting therefore no needed change of plans by JNS with respect to Port Esperance and Southwood Mill?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 22/07/18 at 05:35 PM
#113 ... I think 115 is enough now. Let the fibres begin.Posted by MjF on 23/07/18 at 01:14 AM
#115 ... From the silvicultural perspective, I have never heard of the delayed pruning that has been mentioned recently in some of the comments!
Has there even been any such practice carried out on maturing HWD stems outside regimes of pruning younger stems from the best stands as an option in order to change the end product to a potentially more valuable one?
It sounds to me a very costly exercise to delay pruning. It seems like a sudden of heart to produce a product other than pulp-mill or furnace feedstock!
After this I will be switching to the SoS driven exercise by Arthur Clarke.Posted by Robin Charles Halton on 23/07/18 at 02:51 AM
#115 and #116 ... What is it with each of you two persons to pass judgement on what is right or wrong in regard to the activities engaged in by this State government’s GBE of STT? As I view matters, both of you are no longer employed in this destructive logging industry, therefore it is my opinion that you have no right to condemn the opinions of others, nor to be so disapproving of comments submitted to logging articles that appear on Tasmanian Times.
One has to consider the fact that each of you had been employed by a profitless going-nowhere government business enterprise .. other than into liquidation or to observe Forestry Tasmania’s operational authority revoked.
So in view of your prior employment roles with a former under-regulated rogue GBE, neither of you can assume any authority through your comments because your former roles just do not exist. In effect, neither of you have any claim over and above any of the ill considered and generally ignored Tasmanian citizens.Posted by William Boeder on 23/07/18 at 05:40 AM
#117 ... Thanks for the clarification of my sparring partners MjF and RCH, William. I think Martin owns some plantations somewhere, hence his ongoing interest in MIS plantations.
I should have guessed Robin is ex FT, given his blinkered view and unwillingness to waver. I note RCH has said goodbye to this post, and is now off to stir up Arthur Clarke regards the shipping, given Arthur’s SOS connection.
I am beginning to wonder if these two characters are still on the FT payroll as public relations spokesmen for anything to do with FT on this site. One just has to mention anything to do with forestry, and these two come running, ready to attack.
My ongoing annoyance with RCH is still his inability to pull out his calculator and figure out for himself that my statement of 192 trucks per day, if JNS gets his way, is on the money.
It’s time for a more comprehensive TT article on this subject.Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 23/07/18 at 12:20 PM
#118 ... Thank you, Geoffrey, I have added something of the bold impetus that fires my endeavours to seek a level playing field in which our Tasmanian Liberal party government and it various GBEs seemingly refuse to ascribe to, that is principally the cause of so many of Tasmania’s dilemmas and shortcomings.
The below are borrowed words from a past legal case; R v Sussex Justices, ex p McCarthy.
The case is primarily one that sets the precedence that the appearance of bias is in itself enough to overturn a judicial decision. In the judgement of the case, the famous line appears as:
[It] is of fundamental importance that justice should not only be done but should manifestly and undoubtedly be seen to be done. The point of this is that in order for justice to truly be justice, a trial needs not only to be fair, just and unbiased, but it is of the essence that these things are also seen to be fair, just and unbiased. Without transparency and trust in the courts, there is no justice.
Were these words carved into the foreheads of the great many of Tasmania’s nil integrity bound bonafide legal and law exponents all the better for the citizens of Tasmania?
This state boasts quite of a number of legal and law professionals, and the miscreants among them are those who have veered away from this straightforward concept that happens to underlay the manifest visible errors of the way of this state’s “abhorrently guilty legal and law practising reprehensibles.”
Only through the adoption of the fundamentals referred to in the above, can we hope to see a change in the probity and fidelity in this line of occupation, and as is also applicable to the current incumbents in today’s Liberal State government.Posted by William Boeder on 23/07/18 at 04:00 PM
Hey! You gentlemen at #117 and #118 are in need of a freshen up. The trees are getting to you.
This is the investigation into the BHP/Samarco Fundao tailings dam failure. Good read and interesting videos: http://fundaoinvestigation.com/Posted by Mjf on 23/07/18 at 06:00 PM
#120 ... I note another diversionary tactic by you Mjf, anything at all that will distract from your alleged culpability to enhance the nil-enhansive logging of Tasmania’s Crown Land native forests that immediately flows on from any form of mono-species plantation log supply attrition.
A separate incident is provided here of the legerdemain exhibited by the then Tasmanian government’s frenetic logging free-for-all improperly-regulated scramble for cheap Old Growth logs from HCV reserves and elsewhere, was the altering or amending of a legislated statute by a Skunk from within the State government, to suit a variation of contract sought by Ta Ann Berhad to permit the discontinuance of its MOU pledged intake of mono-species plantation logs that had underpinned the Ta Ann approved entry into Tasmania.
Later we the people were to learn of the annual gifted volume of log-supply that had later consisted of indigenous hardwood species only and to be made available by the ‘biased’ Tasmanian government, this being simply implemented on the whim that this would enhance the laminated products regularly manufactured by Ta Ann Berhad from inferior species of timber.
I am also reminded of a certain South Australian professional scientist that had lorded his strong ‘bias’ on this TT forum against the persons in Tasmania, that would not lie down and forget about the circumstantial-only evidence, that had Tasmania’s legal law and justice proponents doggedly determined to convict the alleged suspect person to have been the direct cause of the disappearance and the death of her then partner.
Let me state this sort of legal law and judicial bias is not uncommon in this State of Tasmania.
Nice try MjF, but no cigar.Posted by William Boeder on 23/07/18 at 07:15 PM
#120 ... Why the red herring, Martin? Still, I have downloaded the report and looked at some of the video.
And your point is ... ?Posted by Geoffrey Swan on 23/07/18 at 10:06 PM
No point, Geoffrey. Totally irrelevant to subject matter here but I thought you and your mate would find it interesting and make for a refreshing interlude while expanding your general knowledge base. I am intrigued by how dumb the construction methodology and then management of the tailings dam turned out to be.
Looks like I misjudged Willy completely though, as being a possessor of an enquiring mind.Posted by MjF on 24/07/18 at 08:46 AM
#123 ... Right and wrong MjF. Yes you have misjudged Willy. Also Willy had read about the collapse of the tailings containing dam and of its high elevation, then that the portending danger was known well before the day that had finally witnessed its collapse.
The originating facts about this disaster had been reported as per below ...
The Bento Rodrigues dam disaster occurred on 5 November 2015, when an iron ore tailings dam in Mariana, Minas Gerais, Brazil, suffered a catastrophic failure, resulting in flooding that destroyed the; in the news reports of media broadcasts outside of Australia.
The latest article was more to provide an update on the BHP half owner of this mining operation and that it intended to defend its proven negligence in this disaster of epic proportion.
BHP lodges objections to every allegation against its known history of disregard for the safety and lives of others.
Do you not know of the BHP Fly River disaster case of negligence against one of the World’s most egregious offending polluting mining operator ever known across this World? I will not go into the history of that disaster, however you can hunt for it online.
This was not the first article published about this Brazilian mining collapse. This published article was more to do with how negligent was the BHP management, also how BHP will defend the indefensible, by their offering a mere quarter Billion dollars as their contribution to aid the clean-up, yet not incorporating the full extent of the huge geographical area affected by their negligence.
See the above link.
Furthermore, your comment #120 had commenced as an off-topic comment, so I did not follow this serial diversionary tactic introduced by you to avoid answering my questions.
My mind is currently engaged in a pending very serious action against the State government of Tasmania. So for your future reference Martin, Willy is not a mere one-trick pony and has a number of other more serious crimes that he is engaged in that have been committed against the people in Tasmania, and which also affect the mainland of Australia
I propose to present my article on this forum then that this subject matter is destined to cut deep and bleed profusely from the non-bona-fides of the Tasmanian State government.Posted by William Boeder on 24/07/18 at 10:11 AM
#124 ... No need. Across the Fly River history.
Thanks for the recommendation.
I don’t wish to delay you further from your higher order corruption exposing project.Posted by MjF on 24/07/18 at 11:15 AM